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Mosco · 21 November 2009, 08:59 AM

Had a collector bring this Red Sub (1680) by today, interested in selling it to me. I told him I wanted to get it evaluated... Upon initial examination, it looks good. It's a 2.2 mil, which puts it at 1967 year of production. The beauty is- it HAS PAPERS with matching numbers!

(chronometer certificate and some service documents). The end-pieces are stamped 280, the bracelet - 9315. I think that is correct for this vintage. Here are a bunch of pics I took of this thing, wanted to know if any of you see anything I should be concerned with before I commit to it. 'Watch Out Boys' - your opinions are welcome and valued, as always

Thank You in advance!

chopperboy · 21 November 2009, 09:01 AM

Looks Awesome, Greg!!!

Mosco · 21 November 2009, 09:03 AM

It does look good, I just want to make sure nobody sees any inconsistencies, or a sign of a refinished dial / un-original hands... That always scares me.

SLS · 21 November 2009, 09:56 AM

The end links are correct. It looks great, aside from the lume cracking on the hands, I'd say you have a winner there. Also, is the date wheel white or silver? It appears white, so it may have been changed during a service. BTW, it looks to have the original crown as well!
Scott

brady · 21 November 2009, 10:07 AM

That is a sharp looking red sub. You are making me want to pick one up! Good luck, hope it works out!

Mosco · 21 November 2009, 10:48 AM

Scott, Brady, THANKS FELLAS!

Mosco · 21 November 2009, 02:25 PM

Can someone also please explain to me what a 'Tropic' dial is?

wehttaM · 21 November 2009, 03:10 PM

I believe that the "Tropic Dial" is the term referred to the dial that has been changed by sunlight. [Term referred to Black Dials of subs when they turn Brown-ish.] These are rare because it takes many years for the color change to take action. High demand for the "Tropic Dial" will sometimes make it work double the value.

springer · 22 November 2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehttaM

I believe that the "Tropic Dial" is the term referred to the dial that has been changed by sunlight. [Term referred to Black Dials of subs when they turn Brown-ish.] These are rare because it takes many years for the color change to take action. High demand for the "Tropic Dial" will sometimes make it work double the value.

It refers to dials that have become brownish-colored with age, and usually show some deterioration due to the elements like sunlight and moisture. Most of these dials look like they should have been replaced years ago. Tropical was a term given to these dials due to the fact that most of these dials came from areas that were very hot and had tropical climates - as found in South America.

Please see the PM I sent you regarding this Submariner.

Lol-x · 21 November 2009, 03:16 PM

Looks good to me, so get it in the mail to me now!!!!!!!!

Really, its quality vintage IMHO.

Only things I noticed is the cyclops looks like it has been polished a lot, hence the distorted date appearance.
Also there is some cracking/damage to the lume on the hands both the hour and minute hand.

bodybump · 21 November 2009, 03:32 PM

Looks perfect greg!!! now text me how much..hahahaha

sleddog · 21 November 2009, 03:40 PM

Greg,as Steve said,Looks like the crystal has been polished (cyclops) alot to distort the date....Not sure if it's just the pic though......Also the case edges look over polished,but overall,I would say legit and and a nice buy if at a good price!!!
My suggestion again is,show some leg and negotiate.....

Rob.!

Speed · 21 November 2009, 04:19 PM

Wow...the whole enchilada!!! Great watch head, original bracelet AND Papers & Box!!!

That's my Grail package

Omega_Precision · 21 November 2009, 04:24 PM

The dial looks good. In my opinion, I don't think the dial was molested. The dial's markers are consistent with the hands.

x2, in regards to the cyclops being polished.

Sailor66 · 21 November 2009, 05:14 PM

Wow what a package!!!! How did that beauty fall into your lap? I can offer no "Expert" advice but I know that the only concern you should have is a fellow member trying to make that deal before you do:

I always look forward to reading your posts Greg and I hope you decide to pull the trigger on this and I look forward to viewing the obligatory wrist shots in due course.

Good luck

mike · 21 November 2009, 09:08 PM

Greg it looks to be an amazing example of a very early meters first. I'd put that serial number in the 1969 range. The earlist I'm aware of is in the 2.1mil area.

Some collectors feel that while the 1680 red may have introduced circa 1966 or so, known serial numbers by owners place the release date to the public in the 1969 range.

Never the less that appears to be in remakable condition with all the bits.

ob1 · 21 November 2009, 09:21 PM

Wowsers

Greg. If the price is good, snap that baby up. What a beauty. Good luck mate

multimedia · 21 November 2009, 10:09 PM

That is one nice sub, that's for sure!

Cheers,
Joe

Mosco · 21 November 2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehttaM

I believe that the "Tropic Dial" is the term referred to the dial that has been changed by sunlight. [Term referred to Black Dials of subs when they turn Brown-ish.] These are rare because it takes many years for the color change to take action. High demand for the "Tropic Dial" will sometimes make it work double the value.

Got it - THANKS! Guess this one doesn't apply, as the dial is nice and dark... Oh well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Looks good to me, so get it in the mail to me now!!!!!!!!

Really, its quality vintage IMHO.

Only things I noticed is the cyclops looks like it has been polished a lot, hence the distorted date appearance.
Also there is some cracking/damage to the lume on the hands both the hour and minute hand.

LOL! On my way to the post office right now!

Yeah, the cyclops does look like it has been polished, and the date looks good only at certain angle (which, I evidently, didn't capture

). As far as the lume - it doesn't bother me too much - as long as it does not start flaking off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodybump

Looks perfect greg!!! now text me how much..hahahaha

I'll trade you for a couple Pams!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleddog1000

Greg,as Steve said,Looks like the crystal has been polished (cyclops) alot to distort the date....Not sure if it's just the pic though......Also the case edges look over polished,but overall,I would say legit and and a nice buy if at a good price!!!
My suggestion again is,show some leg and negotiate.....

Rob.!

Dammit - now I have to shave my legs

The guy knows its worth, and since all the papers are present, he is not letting it go very cheap... Then again, I guess the term is relative, since there aren't many complete Reds out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by masugu

Wow...the whole enchilada!!! Great watch head, original bracelet AND Papers & Box!!!

That's my Grail package

Thanks, my friend!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_Precision

The dial looks good. In my opinion, I don't think the dial was molested. The dial's markers are consistent with the hands.

x2, in regards to the cyclops being polished.

Glad to hear it, Henry - I was worried about the dial/hands being non-original first and foremost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor66

Wow what a package!!!! How did that beauty fall into your lap? I can offer no "Expert" advice but I know that the only concern you should have is a fellow member trying to make that deal before you do:

I always look forward to reading your posts Greg and I hope you decide to pull the trigger on this and I look forward to viewing the obligatory wrist shots in due course.

Good luck

Thanks, man! Hopefully the potential seller doesn't know how to find this forum!

Will post pics as soon as I commit to it - but it is a part of a trade deal, so I don't believe I'll be keeping it. Maybe look at it for a few months and then pass it on to a good home!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

Greg it looks to be an amazing example of a very early meters first. I'd put that serial number in the 1969 range. The earlist I'm aware of is in the 2.1mil area.

Some collectors feel that while the 1680 red may have introduced circa 1966 or so, known serial numbers by owners place the release date to the public in the 1969 range.

Never the less that appears to be in remakable condition with all the bits.

Mike - your input is always valuable, I appreciate it! This is a 2.2, I believe a 1969 as you stated. I hope I can negotiate with the seller for less than an arm & a leg...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ob1

Wowsers

Greg. If the price is good, snap that baby up. What a beauty. Good luck mate

I'm working on it my friend, I am working on it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by multimedia

That is one nice sub, that's for sure!

Cheers,
Joe

Thanks, Joe!

snow_rocks · 22 November 2009, 12:46 AM

the insert on the bezel might have been replaced

JohnEaton · 22 November 2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snow_rocks

the insert on the bezel might have been replaced

I agree

Looks Great Greg

And a very complete package

My 2.2 mil serial has a I69 caseback and also RED over White print and the open 6 thin font.

This "tropic is a dark chocolate"

It was hard to tell from your photo if the RED was solid or overprint

MY 2.2 mil serial also has the closed 6s and 9s on datewheel

In my opinion Anastasios, Springer or Mike would have the best guess as to the value of your classic.

Mosco · 22 November 2009, 12:49 AM

Thanks, John! And THANKS for the PM!

Rick - what makes you say that? Curious...

snow_rocks · 22 November 2009, 12:54 AM

the little orb (12 o'clock) shows no age,

sits a little high in the triangle.

also, if the crystal has been polished due to wear,

the bezel insert would have been either redone or replaced.

rest of watch looks great

Bisquitlips · 22 November 2009, 12:56 AM

Example of a tropical dial.

TempoKing · 22 November 2009, 01:02 AM

I don't think this watch is real

...With that said...
I will buy it so you do not have to worry Greg...

Mosco · 22 November 2009, 01:34 AM

Davvan · 22 November 2009, 02:45 AM

Awesome watch, and meters first

The case looks thick, meaning not over polished

Buy it or you will regrett it 4ever man

David

Smokeytreats · 22 November 2009, 03:43 AM

Greg I have never seen anything survive from 1967 that nicely....do you know if it has been refinished? Looks fantastic!

Mosco · 22 November 2009, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davvan

Awesome watch, and meters first

The case looks thick, meaning not over polished

Buy it or you will regrett it 4ever man

David

David,

I hear ya man... and I agree, but the guy is asking a bit much, IMO... Still need to work him over a little

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokeytreats

Greg I have never seen anything survive from 1967 that nicely....do you know if it has been refinished? Looks fantastic!

The dial doesn't look to be refinished! Owner really did take care of it well. Lume is cracking, but that I can live with.

snow_rocks · 22 November 2009, 04:16 AM

work him over Greg.

very nice example!

21 November 2009, 08:59 AM	#1
Mosco "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Greg Location: Cincinnati Watch: I like to... Posts: 18,567	Experts, please weigh in! (many pics) Had a collector bring this Red Sub (1680) by today, interested in selling it to me. I told him I wanted to get it evaluated... Upon initial examination, it looks good. It's a 2.2 mil, which puts it at 1967 year of production. The beauty is- it HAS PAPERS with matching numbers! (chronometer certificate and some service documents). The end-pieces are stamped 280, the bracelet - 9315. I think that is correct for this vintage. Here are a bunch of pics I took of this thing, wanted to know if any of you see anything I should be concerned with before I commit to it. 'Watch Out Boys' - your opinions are welcome and valued, as always Thank You in advance! Attached Images __________________ Instagram - @CaliberSwiss *“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson*

21 November 2009, 09:01 AM	#2
chopperboy "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Real Name: Matt Location: Florida USA Watch: Rolex Baby!! Posts: 442	Looks Awesome, Greg!!! __________________

21 November 2009, 09:03 AM	#3
Mosco "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Greg Location: Cincinnati Watch: I like to... Posts: 18,567	It does look good, I just want to make sure nobody sees any inconsistencies, or a sign of a refinished dial / un-original hands... That always scares me. __________________ Instagram - @CaliberSwiss *“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson*

21 November 2009, 09:56 AM	#4
SLS "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Real Name: Scott Location: GMT -7 Watch: GMT's & Sub's Posts: 10,401	The end links are correct. It looks great, aside from the lume cracking on the hands, I'd say you have a winner there. Also, is the date wheel white or silver? It appears white, so it may have been changed during a service. BTW, it looks to have the original crown as well! Scott __________________ "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower price is forgotten." -Benjamin Franklin Member No. 922

21 November 2009, 10:48 AM	#6
Mosco "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Greg Location: Cincinnati Watch: I like to... Posts: 18,567	Scott, Brady, THANKS FELLAS! __________________ Instagram - @CaliberSwiss *“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson*

21 November 2009, 10:07 AM	#5
brady "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Real Name: Brady Location: San Antonio Watch: yes please Posts: 525	That is a sharp looking red sub. You are making me want to pick one up! Good luck, hope it works out!

21 November 2009, 02:25 PM	#7
Mosco "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Greg Location: Cincinnati Watch: I like to... Posts: 18,567	Can someone also please explain to me what a 'Tropic' dial is? __________________ Instagram - @CaliberSwiss *“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson*

21 November 2009, 03:10 PM	#8
wehttaM "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Posts: 557	I believe that the "Tropic Dial" is the term referred to the dial that has been changed by sunlight. [Term referred to Black Dials of subs when they turn Brown-ish.] These are rare because it takes many years for the color change to take action. High demand for the "Tropic Dial" will sometimes make it work double the value.

21 November 2009, 03:16 PM	#10
Lol-x Facilitator Join Date: Nov 2005 Real Name: Steve Location: Omnipresent Posts: 33,590	Looks good to me, so get it in the mail to me now!!!!!!!! Really, its quality vintage IMHO. Only things I noticed is the cyclops looks like it has been polished a lot, hence the distorted date appearance. Also there is some cracking/damage to the lume on the hands both the hour and minute hand. __________________ *Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.* ~Abraham Lincoln Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy ROLEXploitation - yeah I'm a victim

21 November 2009, 03:32 PM	#11
bodybump ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 2024 SubLV41 Sponsor & Boutique Seller Join Date: Sep 2008 Real Name: Oscar Location: Florida Watch: Me!!! Posts: 23,233	Looks perfect greg!!! now text me how much..hahahaha __________________

21 November 2009, 03:40 PM	#12
sleddog TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: Jul 2007 Real Name: Rob Location: Nearby. Posts: 24,931	Greg,as Steve said,Looks like the crystal has been polished (cyclops) alot to distort the date....Not sure if it's just the pic though......Also the case edges look over polished,but overall,I would say legit and and a nice buy if at a good price!!! My suggestion again is,show some leg and negotiate..... Rob.! __________________ He who wears a Rolex is always on time, even when late!! TRF's "After Dark" Bar & Nightclub Patron-Founding Member..

21 November 2009, 04:19 PM	#13
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,706	Wow...the whole enchilada!!! Great watch head, original bracelet AND Papers & Box!!! That's my Grail package

21 November 2009, 04:24 PM	#14
Omega_Precision Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Henry Location: CA, US Watch: ing basketball Posts: 2,977	The dial looks good. In my opinion, I don't think the dial was molested. The dial's markers are consistent with the hands. x2, in regards to the cyclops being polished.

21 November 2009, 05:14 PM	#15
Sailor66 "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2009 Real Name: Gordon Location: Gtr Man UK Watch: SS Daytona Posts: 109	Wow what a package!!!! How did that beauty fall into your lap? I can offer no "Expert" advice but I know that the only concern you should have is a fellow member trying to make that deal before you do: I always look forward to reading your posts Greg and I hope you decide to pull the trigger on this and I look forward to viewing the obligatory wrist shots in due course. Good luck

21 November 2009, 09:08 PM	#16
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	Greg it looks to be an amazing example of a very early meters first. I'd put that serial number in the 1969 range. The earlist I'm aware of is in the 2.1mil area. Some collectors feel that while the 1680 red may have introduced circa 1966 or so, known serial numbers by owners place the release date to the public in the 1969 range. Never the less that appears to be in remakable condition with all the bits.

21 November 2009, 09:21 PM	#17
ob1 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Mark Location: canterbury Watch: new pussycat? Posts: 635	Wowsers Greg. If the price is good, snap that baby up. What a beauty. Good luck mate

21 November 2009, 10:09 PM	#18
multimedia "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Joe Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,835	That is one nice sub, that's for sure! Cheers, Joe __________________ "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." - S.J.

22 November 2009, 12:46 AM	#20
snow_rocks Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Rick Location: At what TIME?!!! Watch: the SKY tonite! Posts: 3,225	the insert on the bezel might have been replaced

22 November 2009, 12:49 AM	#22
Mosco "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Greg Location: Cincinnati Watch: I like to... Posts: 18,567	Thanks, John! And THANKS for the PM! Rick - what makes you say that? Curious... __________________ Instagram - @CaliberSwiss *“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson*

22 November 2009, 12:54 AM	#23
snow_rocks Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Rick Location: At what TIME?!!! Watch: the SKY tonite! Posts: 3,225	the little orb (12 o'clock) shows no age, sits a little high in the triangle. also, if the crystal has been polished due to wear, the bezel insert would have been either redone or replaced. rest of watch looks great Last edited by snow_rocks; 22 November 2009 at 12:55 AM.. Reason: forgot

22 November 2009, 12:56 AM	#24
Bisquitlips 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Real Name: Richard Location: USA Watch: YM Deep Space Posts: 12,521	Example of a tropical dial. __________________ Rolex Yacht-Master 40mm (SS-YG / Deep Space MOP) 16623 Breitling Aerospace Titanium / 18K with UTC. Omega Speedmaster 3510.50 Oris TT1 Pro Diver Regulator 43MM

22 November 2009, 01:02 AM	#25
TempoKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Anastasios Location: Athens Greece Watch: Rolex GMT 1675 Posts: 8,497	I don't think this watch is real ...With that said... I will buy it so you do not have to worry Greg...

22 November 2009, 01:34 AM	#26
Mosco "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Greg Location: Cincinnati Watch: I like to... Posts: 18,567	__________________ Instagram - @CaliberSwiss *“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson*

22 November 2009, 02:45 AM	#27
Davvan "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: David Location: Location Location Watch: out..make way!! Posts: 726	Looks great. Awesome watch, and meters first The case looks thick, meaning not over polished Buy it or you will regrett it 4ever man David __________________ Mare Nostrum

22 November 2009, 03:43 AM	#28
Smokeytreats Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Watch: Milgauss White Posts: 155	Greg I have never seen anything survive from 1967 that nicely....do you know if it has been refinished? Looks fantastic!

22 November 2009, 04:16 AM	#30
snow_rocks Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Rick Location: At what TIME?!!! Watch: the SKY tonite! Posts: 3,225	work him over Greg. very nice example!

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