ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

mcjp6 · 27 March 2010, 08:15 PM

There is a pattern emerging here. Yet another example, this time on a 5512. also from Hong Kong.

seller watch-navi ( 1464)

Clean & Unrestored 1970 Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner 660ft=200m No Date men's divers Ref. 5512 with so-called Maxi Dial !!

Here is an used Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner stainless steel men's divers watch, cicra. 1970, ref.no. is 5512, serial no.is 2509XXX, watch only no box or paper, 100% original & authentic, very rare with original maxi dial (huge tritium markers on dial), the diameter of the watch is about 38 mm across (excludes crown) / 42 mm (includes crown) and 47 mm from top to buttom, below is an approximate analysis:

* Case = original stainless steel case body is clean with minor wear, not much been polished, no rust or corrosion, numbers on both sides are visable
* Caseback = original stainless steel caseback has some scratches & wear, screw thread is nice & crisp, no rust or corrosion, marked "5513" & "III 70" on inside
* Crystal = original dome shape acrylic crystal is clean
* Dial = 100% original Rolex signed black maxi dial has some minor wear, original tritium markers had aged to a light creamish tone, all writing is visable, written "SWISS T<25" at the bottom
* Hands = original steel hands have some wear and in good working condition with matching patina
* Bezel = original black divers rotating bezel & insert are in good working condition with some wear, turn bi-directionally
* Movement = original Rolex signed Cal. 1570 non-hack automatic movement is in running condition; not recently timed, regulated, or pressure tested, not guarantee for waterproof or accuracy
* Winding crown = original Rolex signed screw down winding crown works well, can wind and set time
* Band = comes with the original Rolex heavy oyster stainless steel 93150 bracelet with 580 end-pieces, some surface wear but moderate stretching, in 11 links

http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-Rolex-Subma...item3efdcde3be

Orchi · 27 March 2010, 09:47 PM

Err buddy Michael...now this would be from SOMEwhere SAME backyard...
factory...

mcjp6 · 27 March 2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orchi

Err buddy Michael...now this would be from SOMEwhere SAME backyard...
factory...

Spot on.....

and still at it......

marie · 27 March 2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjp6

Spot on.....

and still at it......

GREAT CATCH!!!

Safetrends · 27 March 2010, 10:15 PM

Wow, we are on a roll with the Rolex submariner, nice to see that the trash is being taken out.

TheBluePrince · 28 March 2010, 12:08 AM

Ok, so first we can take the fact that HK is Rolexes biggest market and the vintage Rolex capital of the world. If there is going to be a few odd features on watches turn up it will most likely be there due to the huge number of watches there and interest in them.

Now either one of two things is happening/has happened.

1. Rolex made some cases with this long E on. We have seen a few on here now. We all know Rolex often made little differences on cases, dials, bezels, bracelets etc through they years. It is very likely and possible.

2. A master watchmaker is making these cases in his work shop and getting the E wrong. Now at least two we know of of these have been to and passed through OK, HK RSC so if they were not real then they were good enough to fool HK RSC. Now if this maker was making the cases we are to assume that even though they are so good (they would be the best fake cases i've ever seen) he still gets the E wrong? All that skill, effort and everything else right but one letter wrong? Even if he did then he would have noticed or been told about it (we aren't the only people who will have noticed, we would be silly to think we are) after the first one or two he made and would then have started making them with the "correct" E.

Now also, the seller of these long E watches are happily showing us the pics of the markings. Would they do this so openly if they were fake/home made? No way, they would try to hide it.

People need to not just use their own knowledge of what they know or what they have seen when assessing these things. Logic, reasoning and intelligent objective analysis of the information while considering all variables will reveal the likely truth.

mcjp6 · 28 March 2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Now either one of two things is happening/has happened.

It is very likely and possible.

Now at least two we know of of these have been to and passed through OK HK RSC

If you believe it very likely and possible you should read this thread http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...highlight=1680

I don't think you should limit yourself to "one of two things happened". How about stolen watches having their markings "polished" off and then having the case remarked for example. These cases all exhibit some sort of tampering.

We do not know at all that they have passed through RSC HK, we just see some papers here.

Also, the only watches where these long Es appear to be occurring is on higher value watches, not on the low end watches such as 6694s or 55xx both models which were very popular in the Asian countries especially HK.

BASSETHOUNDS · 28 March 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Ok, so first we can take the fact that HK is Rolexes biggest market and the vintage Rolex capital of the world. If there is going to be a few odd features on watches turn up it will most likely be there due to the huge number of watches there and interest in them.

Now either one of two things is happening/has happened.

1. Rolex made some cases with this long E on. We have seen a few on here now. We all know Rolex often made little differences on cases, dials, bezels, bracelets etc through they years. It is very likely and possible.

2. A master watchmaker is making these cases in his work shop and getting the E wrong. Now at least two we know of of these have been to and passed through OK, HK RSC so if they were not real then they were good enough to fool HK RSC. Now if this maker was making the cases we are to assume that even though they are so good (they would be the best fake cases i've ever seen) he still gets the E wrong? All that skill, effort and everything else right but one letter wrong? Even if he did then he would have noticed or been told about it (we aren't the only people who will have noticed, we would be silly to think we are) after the first one or two he made and would then have started making them with the "correct" E.

Now also, the seller of these long E watches are happily showing us the pics of the markings. Would they do this so openly if they were fake/home made? No way, they would try to hide it.

People need to not just use their own knowledge of what they know or what they have seen when assessing these things. Logic, reasoning and intelligent objective analysis of the information while considering all variables will reveal the likely truth.

I agree with your arguments , but this watchmaker may also be a TRF member ... so I guess he will correct the long E's from now on .

Earl Camembert · 28 March 2010, 09:26 AM

Wouldn't it be special if Rolex hand them made in Hong Kong to save a buck?

Safetrends · 28 March 2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

Wouldn't it be special if Rolex hand them made in Hong Kong to save a buck?

Earl Camembert · 28 March 2010, 09:57 AM

What is Rolex hiding? Why do they let people wander the darkness with the blind leading the blind? Rolex is totally silent except to say buy a new watch from an AD and then one may or may not get a real Rolex.

CaveDiver · 28 March 2010, 12:03 PM

Okay, Either a lot more Rolex confusion or something not lining up here

1) The case back looks like it says third quarter 70 and SN says 2509XXX however, my 5512 case back states first quarter 70 and SN 279xxxx. That means this watch for sale is newer than mine but has an older SN. Orchi, what does your expertise say on this?
2) That dial is not what I have seen as original on this cira watch.
3) Font on bottom seems off, but maybe Rolex again??

and the E..

Earl Camembert · 28 March 2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

1) The case back looks like it says third quarter 70 and SN says 2509XXX however, my 5512 case back states first quarter 70 and SN 279xxxx. That means this watch for sale is newer than mine but has an older SN. Orchi, what does your expertise say on this?
.

Rolex serial numbers; don't get me started. Only Rolex knows what numbers were sold in what year and to whom. Rolex is not a small factory they pump out a million watches a year. They are heavily automated and a case many sit on a shelf for how long only Rolex knows before it is mated with a movement and shipped.

I have a watch with a 1988 number and it was not shipped to the AD by Rolex USA until 1991. Perhaps this is why Rolex stopped putting codes on an 8x10 paper and went to a tiny card.

mcjp6 · 28 March 2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Orchi, what does your expertise say on this?

buddy Orchi has a brilliant post on this right here...http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...omment..%2B%2B

bayerische · 28 March 2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjp6

buddy Orchi has a brilliant post on this right here...http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...omment..%2B%2B

Orchi should get a medal for all his great work!

TimeToGo · 29 March 2010, 04:22 AM

Still thar!

ParisDakarBmw · 29 March 2010, 04:24 AM

Crap!

snow_rocks · 29 March 2010, 10:18 AM

After reading these posts, I also wonder why someone would use the wrong E, when the other, real cases would have the standard E.

It can't be that difficult to get that stupid E correct, unless the fakers need a way to tell the good cases from the bad cases!

springer · 29 March 2010, 10:41 AM

I totally agree on this 5512, the number/font stampings are not even correct and the same can be said for the spacing. This isn't even a good counterfeit. Watch-Nav has some explaining to do! Compare it to this genuine 1680.

Safetrends · 29 March 2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

I totally agree on this 5512, the number/font stampings are not even correct and the same can be said for the spacing. This isn't even a good counterfeit. Watch-Nav has some explaining to do! Compare it to this genuine 1680.

Looks to be engraved by hand.

springer · 29 March 2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetrends

Looks to be engraved by hand.

Safe what are you trying to say - the 1680 is a fake too! How about this one of the other side of the lugs.

Safetrends · 29 March 2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

Safe what are you trying to say - the 1680 is a fake too!

I guess I will stay on the fence until I see the whole watch. That is what my lawyer advised me to do.

springer · 29 March 2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetrends

I guess I will stay on the fence until I see the whole watch. That is what my lawyer advised me to do.

Now that is a great answer!

astintrew · 8 April 2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

I totally agree on this 5512, the number/font stampings are not even correct and the same can be said for the spacing. This isn't even a good counterfeit. Watch-Nav has some explaining to do! Compare it to this genuine 1680.

cant quite see the 2nd "e" in the word STEEL...but it sure LOOKS regit from this side....

so is this a fake or not?..lol

Orchi · 8 April 2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astintrew

cant quite see the 2nd "e" in the word STEEL...but it sure LOOKS regit from this side....

so is this a fake or not?..lol

Err buddy...of course it is...FAKEEE...

springer · 29 March 2010, 10:47 AM

Check out the stampings on this GMT. Real or fake - come on - you got a 50/50 chance. And qualify your answer please.

Safetrends · 29 March 2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

Check out the stampings on this GMT. Real or fake - come on - you got a 50/50 chance. And qualify your answer please.

1675

The 7, 5 looks to be altered. It looks like someone has written over the letters and numbers?

stevemulholland3 · 2 April 2010, 03:11 PM

I have litterally hundreds of watches,specifically Rolex sports watches,come thru my doors every year..and the surest way I have always used to initially point out a fake case
is the long "E" method..if one person will bring me a factory original case with even "E"s
then I will eat a bag of concrete!without water!
I want to see a 1 owner piece with box/papers and the original owner that will tell where and when he bought it..
there are none,and thats that!

Orchi · 2 April 2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

I have litterally hundreds of watches,specifically Rolex sports watches,come thru my doors every year..and the surest way I have always used to initially point out a fake case
is the long "E" method..if one person will bring me a factory original case with even "E"s
then I will eat a bag of concrete!without water!
I want to see a 1 owner piece with box/papers and the original owner that will tell where and when he bought it..
there are none,and thats that!

Err buddy Steve...you can repeat that again n again...+ LONG Middle Stroke of "E" on the inside of ROLEX casebacks...

mcjp6 · 2 April 2010, 09:23 PM

Pile of

is still there.......

I am not letting go of this one, so we might have to revert to plan B here, could prove extremely interesting.

27 March 2010, 08:15 PM	#1
mcjp6 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Real Name: Michael Location: VK2 - AUS Watch: 5513s Posts: 7,380	Long E Rolex 5512 There is a pattern emerging here. Yet another example, this time on a 5512. also from Hong Kong. seller watch-navi ( 1464) Clean & Unrestored 1970 Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner 660ft=200m No Date men's divers Ref. 5512 with so-called Maxi Dial !! Here is an used Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner stainless steel men's divers watch, cicra. 1970, ref.no. is 5512, serial no.is 2509XXX, watch only no box or paper, 100% original & authentic, very rare with original maxi dial (huge tritium markers on dial), the diameter of the watch is about 38 mm across (excludes crown) / 42 mm (includes crown) and 47 mm from top to buttom, below is an approximate analysis: * Case = original stainless steel case body is clean with minor wear, not much been polished, no rust or corrosion, numbers on both sides are visable * Caseback = original stainless steel caseback has some scratches & wear, screw thread is nice & crisp, no rust or corrosion, marked "5513" & "III 70" on inside * Crystal = original dome shape acrylic crystal is clean * Dial = 100% original Rolex signed black maxi dial has some minor wear, original tritium markers had aged to a light creamish tone, all writing is visable, written "SWISS T<25" at the bottom * Hands = original steel hands have some wear and in good working condition with matching patina * Bezel = original black divers rotating bezel & insert are in good working condition with some wear, turn bi-directionally * Movement = original Rolex signed Cal. 1570 non-hack automatic movement is in running condition; not recently timed, regulated, or pressure tested, not guarantee for waterproof or accuracy * Winding crown = original Rolex signed screw down winding crown works well, can wind and set time * Band = comes with the original Rolex heavy oyster stainless steel 93150 bracelet with 580 end-pieces, some surface wear but moderate stretching, in 11 links http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-Rolex-Subma...item3efdcde3be Attached Images

29 March 2010, 10:41 AM	#19
springer 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: jP Location: Texas Watch: GMT-MASTER Posts: 17,319	I totally agree on this 5512, the number/font stampings are not even correct and the same can be said for the spacing. This isn't even a good counterfeit. Watch-Nav has some explaining to do! Compare it to this genuine 1680. Attached Images __________________ Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.

29 March 2010, 10:47 AM	#26
springer 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: jP Location: Texas Watch: GMT-MASTER Posts: 17,319	Check out the stampings on this GMT. Real or fake - come on - you got a 50/50 chance. And qualify your answer please. Attached Images __________________ Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.

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27 March 2010, 09:47 PM	#2
Orchi Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 2,934	Err buddy Michael...now this would be from SOMEwhere SAME backyard... factory...

27 March 2010, 10:15 PM	#5
Safetrends Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Real Name: David Walz Location: San Diego CA USA Watch: my hand. :) Posts: 9,156	Wow, we are on a roll with the Rolex submariner, nice to see that the trash is being taken out.

28 March 2010, 12:08 AM	#6
TheBluePrince "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: London Posts: 2,081	Ok, so first we can take the fact that HK is Rolexes biggest market and the vintage Rolex capital of the world. If there is going to be a few odd features on watches turn up it will most likely be there due to the huge number of watches there and interest in them. Now either one of two things is happening/has happened. 1. Rolex made some cases with this long E on. We have seen a few on here now. We all know Rolex often made little differences on cases, dials, bezels, bracelets etc through they years. It is very likely and possible. 2. A master watchmaker is making these cases in his work shop and getting the E wrong. Now at least two we know of of these have been to and passed through OK, HK RSC so if they were not real then they were good enough to fool HK RSC. Now if this maker was making the cases we are to assume that even though they are so good (they would be the best fake cases i've ever seen) he still gets the E wrong? All that skill, effort and everything else right but one letter wrong? Even if he did then he would have noticed or been told about it (we aren't the only people who will have noticed, we would be silly to think we are) after the first one or two he made and would then have started making them with the "correct" E. Now also, the seller of these long E watches are happily showing us the pics of the markings. Would they do this so openly if they were fake/home made? No way, they would try to hide it. People need to not just use their own knowledge of what they know or what they have seen when assessing these things. Logic, reasoning and intelligent objective analysis of the information while considering all variables will reveal the likely truth.

28 March 2010, 09:26 AM	#9
Earl Camembert Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,858	Wouldn't it be special if Rolex hand them made in Hong Kong to save a buck?

28 March 2010, 09:57 AM	#11
Earl Camembert Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,858	What is Rolex hiding? Why do they let people wander the darkness with the blind leading the blind? Rolex is totally silent except to say buy a new watch from an AD and then one may or may not get a real Rolex.

28 March 2010, 12:03 PM	#12
CaveDiver "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 1,075	Okay, Either a lot more Rolex confusion or something not lining up here 1) The case back looks like it says third quarter 70 and SN says 2509XXX however, my 5512 case back states first quarter 70 and SN 279xxxx. That means this watch for sale is newer than mine but has an older SN. Orchi, what does your expertise say on this? 2) That dial is not what I have seen as original on this cira watch. 3) Font on bottom seems off, but maybe Rolex again?? and the E..

29 March 2010, 04:22 AM	#16
TimeToGo 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: North Florida Posts: 16,736	Still thar!

29 March 2010, 04:24 AM	#17
ParisDakarBmw Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Paul Location: New Haven, CT Watch: 116610 Sub-C Posts: 6,552	Crap!

29 March 2010, 10:18 AM	#18
snow_rocks Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Rick Location: At what TIME?!!! Watch: the SKY tonite! Posts: 3,225	After reading these posts, I also wonder why someone would use the wrong E, when the other, real cases would have the standard E. It can't be that difficult to get that stupid E correct, unless the fakers need a way to tell the good cases from the bad cases!

2 April 2010, 03:11 PM	#28
stevemulholland3 Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: steven Location: tampa bay Watch: 1680 18k sub Posts: 6,672	I have litterally hundreds of watches,specifically Rolex sports watches,come thru my doors every year..and the surest way I have always used to initially point out a fake case is the long "E" method..if one person will bring me a factory original case with even "E"s then I will eat a bag of concrete!without water! I want to see a 1 owner piece with box/papers and the original owner that will tell where and when he bought it.. there are none,and thats that!

2 April 2010, 09:23 PM	#30
mcjp6 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Real Name: Michael Location: VK2 - AUS Watch: 5513s Posts: 7,380	Pile of is still there....... I am not letting go of this one, so we might have to revert to plan B here, could prove extremely interesting.

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