Sub-C doesnt stay wound up on winder....

[jacksprat]

Perplexing question:

My v-serial 16610 sub stayed wound on my winder with no problems. Everytime I wanted to wear it, it was ready to go. Even after two months of no wear, the date was wrong but the time was correct.
Now, I recently aquired a 116610 sub-C and placed it on the exact winder (same setup 650 TPD, CW and CCW). However it does not stay wound. I would check in two days and it is always stopped.

Both watches I would manually wind up before placing on the winder. So the winder just needed to mantain the wind, not actually wind up the watch from a dead stop, so to speak.

They both have the 3135 movement. The only thing diferrent between the two watches is the hairspring? Or did I get a faulty movement and should send it back?

If I take the sub-c off the winder and kind of spin it around in space with my hands then I can get the ticker to start moving again, so its not that rotor is broken or anything.

[Megalobyte]

Possible the winder is not working properly now?

I'd try to see if the winder has somehow gotten off a little. Then I'd try upping the TPD to 800. Also, unlikely, but the C is heavier, if it's loose on it's cushion and moving around, it might reduce winding efficiency. Also wind it fully then let it run to stop, see if it's getting 48 hours.

[jacksprat]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Possible the winder is not working properly now?

I'd try to see if the winder has somehow gotten off a little. Then I'd try upping the TPD to 800.

with the sub-C being completely dead, I turned on the winder and stared at it for about a minute. I would've thought that the watch would come back to life but it doesnt. It is odd because if you simply turn it over and over a few times in space with your hands the watch will come back to life. So the winder is working fine. Its a multiple watch winder (holds 4) and right now it keeps the other watches on it wound up fine.

[Megalobyte]

I'm no expert but I wonder if the rotor isn't lubed well, the gentle winder rotation isn't unsticking it, but shaking is vigorous enough to let it swing. What happens if you wear it for a few days?

[snog]

not sure why the need for a winder? you say the date is wrong on one watch that uses the winder and the other stops,sounds like the winder is not up to the job,even if it were up to the job,what is the point if you manually wind the watch before putting on the winder,why not just leave it in it's box and wind when needed,same amount of manual wind but you saved on the price of a winder,or are you using the winder for some other reason?

[jacksprat]

Also must point out that my winder positions the watch at an angle. As in the watch's face is not exactly 90deg from plane. It sits tilted back maybe 30deg.

[padi56]

Well have you tried your 116610 watch on the best winder your own wrist thats where a Rolex belongs and not stuck on a machine.Give it a full manual wind around 40 full crown turns clock wise and a rolex needs a little bit more than 650 they need around 750 plus to keep reserve topped up.Another thing the winder could be faulty so don't be in a hurry to blame the watch.Try a full wind manual wind check the time first, and let it run till it stops to check power reserve if you get around 40 hours plus all is well with the winding side.Then wind again and wear it as normal take it of at night,then wear again as normal if watch does not stop all is well with the auto wind if all is well then its your winder thats the problem.

[Megalobyte]

I had a watch that was fine when worn but wouldn't stay running in a winder. Sold it before I figured out why. I'd wear the sub a week and see if you can rule out the rotor and mainspring/power reserve.

[jacksprat]

I'm sorry it offends some people that MY sub-c stays on a winder but it is not my daily wearer as I have other watches I wear and also a beater that I wear daily. I simply like to have the luxury of grabbing a watch when I want to wear it and having it ready to go. Not everyone enjoys unscrewing the crown and setting the time everytime they want to wear a watch. It is a matter of personal preference and I am entitled to it.

I had hoped that my original post would eliminate certain responses seen in the thread but since it has not, I will bullet point them:

-The winder kept my 16610 sub wound PERFECTLY. For MONTHS at a time of no wear. To the poster who blamed the winder for not keeping the date correct.... Not every month has 31 days in it. It's not a perpetual calendar watch...

-If the winder kept the 16610 sub wound up perfectly but cannot do so for the 116610 sub-C, I would think that there is something different between the two watches? The winder keeps my two Breitlings and one TAG wound up perfectly. Two have Valjoux movements and one has the Breitling in house
B01 movement.

-If nothing is different in the movements between the old sub and new sub, I would think something is wrong with my new sub. Megalobyte mentioned that the rotor rotation point may not be lubed well. This makes sense to me since the winder rotates the watch very gently and slowly. It may not be enough to "unstick" the rotor and get it moving.

-I mentioned that my winder positions the watches at about a 30 angle instead of 90deg like some winders (Wolf, for example). I am wondering if the new sub-c needs to be at 90deg from plane to get the rotor moving? obivously turning the watch round and round at any angle other than 90deg is less efficient at getting the rotor moving while the watch being parallel to plane would result in zero rotor movement.

[WyoWatch]

My 116610LN Sub-C (purchased brand new @ AD in July 2010) is going back to RSC Dallas as we speak for the exact same issue. It never had a great power reserve to begin with (Giving it a full manual wind would keep a normal PR, but winding it up and then wearing it every day to keep it wound barely kept it running. I had it stop many times overnight. Never had an issue whatsoever with my 14060M so I know my activity level isn't to blame.).

The other day pushed me over the edge - I gave it a full wind and wore it all day at work. Got home at 5:30pm, took it off and by 7:00pm it had stopped. I'll report back when it gets back from the RSC. I was told a 1 to 3 week turnaround time which is pretty dang good considering wait times these days. Sorry to hear about your trouble. What you and I are experiencing may not be the same problem but then again it could be.

[Megalobyte]

Wow, I feel for you guys. My new C easily stays wound as long as I wear it around 10-15 hours a day. Sounds like a mainspring issue if you wound it fully and it still stopped way short of 40 hours.

[Wisconsin Proud]

Why are people trying to blame the winder? The winder works!! The rotor doesn't!

Are you so Rolex-blind that just maybe there is an issue with the watch? Wouldn't it makes sense that if 3 of the four watches work on the winder then maybe the issue is with the 4th watch?

I have an LV on a winder when not on my wrist and it winds and keeps reserve just fine. His doesn't, but don't blame a winder that obviously works.

[jacksprat]

I will set the winder to 750 TPD and see if that does the trick. It's just puzzling to me because my old sub stayed wound up with the winder set to 650 TPD.

The way I see it, ALL variables are the same here. There is definately something different between the new sub and old sub movements. If not, then something is wrong with my new sub. If there are fallacies in my logic, please point them out to me.

[MB7000]

I prefer a winder as well. I wear a different watch every day or two. Send the watch back and let them tell you there is nothing wrong with it.

[MB7000]

according to my winder instructions Rolex needs 800

[Megalobyte]

Orbita says 650 for a Sub.

[jacksprat]

Originally Posted by MB7000

according to my winder instructions Rolex needs 800

hmm....My winder didnt come with insructions for certain watch brands but I went to Orbita's website and the list the sub as 650 TPD CW and CCW. We shall see if the 750 TPD setting keeps it wound. Though I'm thinking it wont, since I cannot get the watch to come back to life from being fully unwound by putting it on the winder and watching it wind.

Perhaps I didnt wait long enough though? Just occured to me as I am typing that one full turn on the winder doesnt equal one full turn of the crown!

[WyoWatch]

Originally Posted by jacksprat

hmm....My winder didnt come with insructions for certain watch brands but I went to Orbita's website and the list the sub as 650 TPD CW and CCW. We shall see if the 750 TPD setting keeps it wound. Though I'm thinking it wont, since I cannot get the watch to come back to life from being fully unwound by putting it on the winder and watching it wind.

Perhaps I didnt wait long enough though? Just occured to me as I am typing that one full turn on the winder doesnt equal one full turn of the crown!

I would tend to side with Wisconsin Proud on this one. I would guess it's more likely an issue with lubrication / rotor / mainspring / gear train, etc. but it never hurts to explore easy things like winder adjustment before sending it in. These kinds of things are frustrating but if needed, Rolex is one of the best in the business when it comes to after sales service.