I blame JJ......

[Teofilo]

As soon as he said everything in the TRF world was ship shape and Bristol fashion we hit a big iceberg.........are we going to sink and drown, or are we going to start bailing like crazy ?
This has been a superb forum for the 9 months I have been lurking and posting....long may it continue !

[C.J.]

TRF will be just fine. We're a rapidly growing forum and with all growth comes growing pains. These will only help to strengthen us in the future. What's important now is to learn from these lessons, especially as expensive as some have been. We need to understand that we a a diverse group of different backgrounds, opinions and beliefs. We're quick to use the term "friend" here. Friends deserve respect and we can show that respect by trying to understand our differences. We don't have to agree with one another on everything, if we did, we'd be bored. But, we need to try and see things from the perspective of others and allow some thoughts shared to go by undisputed.

Some of us have strong beliefs about certain opinions and topics that others feel just as strongly about in the opposite and vice versa. NO ONE is wrong in those beliefs and only a fool would think he can change the others mind. Instead, we should accept them for what they are, good people with passion not just for timepieces but other beliefs, as well. Learn from each other, appreciate each other and take from others whatever positive we can, but leave the disputes, jibes and hurtful, judgmental quips behind.

We're all here for the same reason and it's not watches. It's because we like it here. We enjoy the wide range of topics discussed here and the conversations with folks from all over the world. But, this place offers no guarantee. TRF is here for our enjoyment totally free of charge and I can assure you that the owner makes nothing from the place, actually, it's quite the opposite. We're here because we lurked here, realized what a fun place it was and then signed up. When we maintain these ongoing disputes it makes others who are lurking, just as we did prior to signing up, not want to join. It causes riffs and makes some members leave too. If this trend continues TRF will not. We owe a debt to TRF for providing us with this gathering place. Not a debt of monetary value, rather the loyalty and respect it deserves for merely providing us the opportunity to come together like we do. It's time for us to look out TRF and make the warm atmosphere it's famous for all of our responsibility to maintain. That welcoming, friendly warmth was here for us when we signed up, now it's our job to continue it so others will want to join us.

So, let's go, people. Let's get back to the TRF that each and every one of us signed up for and leave this current trend of spats behind us. We owe this to TRF, each other and ourselves.

[timebroker]

[JJ Irani]

That's right....blame everything on poor ole' me....now what the hell did I do?

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

That's right....blame everything on poor ole' me....now what the hell did I do?

If I only had a dollar for every time you said that

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by C.J.

If I only had a dollar for every time you said that

It must be 11:45 pm there, my friend. Good night!!

[Carolina]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

That's right....blame everything on poor ole' me....now what the hell did I do?

JJ, with over 33,000 posts, it's just the law of averages that your name comes for some reason or another!

[Prince]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

That's right....blame everything on poor ole' me....now what the hell did I do?

Just being JJ is all it takes, my friend!

[Blue Bull]

Originally Posted by C.J.

TRF will be just fine. We're a rapidly growing forum and with all growth comes growing pains. These will only help to strengthen us in the future. What's important now is to learn from these lessons, especially as expensive as some have been. We need to understand that we a a diverse group of different backgrounds, opinions and beliefs. We're quick to use the term "friend" here. Friends deserve respect and we can show that respect by trying to understand our differences. We don't have to agree with one another on everything, if we did, we'd be bored. But, we need to try and see things from the perspective of others and allow some thoughts shared to go by undisputed.

Some of us have strong beliefs about certain opinions and topics that others feel just as strongly about in the opposite and vice versa. NO ONE is wrong in those beliefs and only a fool would think he can change the others mind. Instead, we should accept them for what they are, good people with passion not just for timepieces but other beliefs, as well. Learn from each other, appreciate each other and take from others whatever positive we can, but leave the disputes, jibes and hurtful, judgmental quips behind.

We're all here for the same reason and it's not watches. It's because we like it here. We enjoy the wide range of topics discussed here and the conversations with folks from all over the world. But, this place offers no guarantee. TRF is here for our enjoyment totally free of charge and I can assure you that the owner makes nothing from the place, actually, it's quite the opposite. We're here because we lurked here, realized what a fun place it was and then signed up. When we maintain these ongoing disputes it makes others who are lurking, just as we did prior to signing up, not want to join. It causes riffs and makes some members leave too. If this trend continues TRF will not. We owe a debt to TRF for providing us with this gathering place. Not a debt of monetary value, rather the loyalty and respect it deserves for merely providing us the opportunity to come together like we do. It's time for us to look out TRF and make the warm atmosphere it's famous for all of our responsibility to maintain. That welcoming, friendly warmth was here for us when we signed up, now it's our job to continue it so others will want to join us.

So, let's go, people. Let's get back to the TRF that each and every one of us signed up for and leave this current trend of spats behind us. We owe this to TRF, each other and ourselves.

The problem is that there is no respect for different backgrounds,religeons,beliefs.An interesting discussion on an important part of history,will be branded political.
Members with personal experience regarding certain situations,will be taken on,by members who do not know shit,about it.
Jest,legpulling,a bit of a joke .... and you become an "unsavory character".
You come from a part of the world,thats not "mainstream",you simply cannot know anything,about anything.Its just not cricket ... That'll be the day !!
Topics that you dont find interesting,you start blaming the others as "Ramboesque".Thats despite the fact that many do find it interesting.Look at the amount of posts on those topics.

[mickiratt]

This is not and should not be rocket science. As I said yesterday and I Quote:

"We all have to remember that the large cultural diversity of this forum is it's STRENGTH. There is room here for everyone who wants to be part of it. This is a great group of people and I love the personality of this board.

As we grow, we may need to try and be a little more sensitive to others. I don't think there are many here who would purposely try to offend another, but sometimes in our whackiness, things could easily be misunderstood. Hopefully, we can all move forward from this!"

This forum is not going to sink or drown. It simply is going to learn and move forward. What has been done has been acknowledged, we have duly noted it, and now we are moving on.

[Blue Bull]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

This is not and should not be rocket science. As I said yesterday and I Quote:

"We all have to remember that the large cultural diversity of this forum is it's STRENGTH. There is room here for everyone who wants to be part of it. This is a great group of people and I love the personality of this board.

As we grow, we may need to try and be a little more sensitive to others. I don't think there are many here who would purposely try to offend another, but sometimes in our whackiness, things could easily be misunderstood. Hopefully, we can all move forward from this!"

This forum is not going to sink or drown. It simply is going to learn and move forward. What has been done has been acknowledged, we have duly noted it, and now we are moving on.

Lets go back to the CREAM topics.Now there was a guy that was jumped on !! Now who was the least sensitive ?? Branded many things very quickly,by many.He had a very interesting collection of watches.Unfortuanately,we wont see that.Now and then he still roams the board.I have sent him some PMs asking him to post more pics of his collection,but unfortuanately he says he does not post here anymore ....

I know who he is.Interesting,his cultural background couldnt me further removed from my own.I was just interested to see his collection ......

No Micki,it seems there isnt room for everyone.

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Blue Bull

The problem is that there is no respect for different backgrounds,religeons,beliefs.An interesting discussion on an important part of history,will be branded political.
Members with personal experience regarding certain situations,will be taken on,by members who do not know shit,about it.
Jest,legpulling,a bit of a joke .... and you become an "unsavory character".
You come from a part of the world,thats not "mainstream",you simply cannot know anything,about anything.Its just not cricket ... That'll be the day !!
Topics that you dont find interesting,you start blaming the others as "Ramboesque".Thats despite the fact that many do find it interesting.Look at the amount of posts on those topics.

Can you be a little more clear as to who you're referring to when you use the "YOU"? If I remember correctly, these issues arose from one or two topics and the negativity you perceived was from a very, very small percent of the members here. Does that make this place so bad in general or should your issue lie with only a small few? Because it seems that the other 99% of your nearly 2000 posts you seemed to be having a pretty good time and they were met with rather warm, flattering, friendly responses.

[leopardprey]

Blue Bull, Well said. Unfortunately there are certain members who if they do not agree with a particular assesment of a governments persecution of minorities, or like your posts, are quick to label one a racsist, bigot, and try to tell you to leave the forum. Yet, other post that are blantantly rascist get no comments/objections at all. It is sad to see on this forum. I thought I had a lot of freinds on this forum as well, but after the last several days realize there are many who wish me to leave this forum and think my post are showing disrespect to other forum members. I have never shown any disrespect to any members directly, as some have to myself. I do not apologize for anything I have posted, as I have never said anything that is not the truth or disrespectful. If there was something that particularly offended someone, I wish they would PM me so I could discuss it, as sometimes what one writes is interpeted differnently by the reader of the post, than the point the writer was trying to make. And I may just leave this forum within the next few days. I realize now that this forum has become too politically correct and left leaning. I was suprised how some could be so turned off by my post about guns and knives and thinking post like that promote violence in the world. Shared about my past, work, interests, annd hobbies amongst friends on the forum and then get labled a "Rambo" from the more Pacifist members. Maybe that is the problem in many places in the world these days, too many tolerate immorality and too many men are not willing to stand up and be MEN anymore and use violence to stop brutal acts of terrorism.

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Blue Bull, Well said. Unfortunately there are certain members who if they do not agree with a particular assesment of a governments persecution of minorities, or like your posts, are quick to label one a racsist, bigot, and try to tell you to leave the forum. Yet, other post that are blantantly rascist get no comments/objections at all. It is sad to see on this forum. I thought I had a lot of freinds on this forum as well, but after the last several days realize there are many who wish me to leave this forum and think my post are showing disrespect to other forum members. I have never shown any disrespect to any members directly, as some have to myself. I do not apologize for anything I have posted, as I have never said anything that is not the truth or disrespectful. If there was something that particularly offended someone, I wish they would PM me so I could discuss it, as sometimes what one writes is interpeted differnently by the reader of the post, than the point the writer was trying to make. And I may just leave this forum within the next few days. I realize now that this forum has become too politically correct and left leaning. I was suprised how some could be so turned off by my post about guns and knives and thinking post like that promote violence in the world. Shared about my past, work, interests, annd hobbies amongst friends on the forum and then get labled a "Rambo" from the more Pacifist members. Maybe that is the problem in many places in the world these days, too many tolerate immorality and too many men are not willing to stand up and be MEN anymore and use violence to stop brutal acts of terrorism.

My response to Bluebull applies here too. Some members took issue with a couple of your thoughts in a couple of your threads. Whereas, a great many others supported them. I don't see how you can label the entire forum for the responses of only a few. The gun and knife threads received plenty of responses and quite a few members posted in them. There are quite a few members here who use guns and knives for a living and by trade and disposition are more than willing to use extreme violence as a path to peace, so you're way off base when you label the entire forum. Again, these issues arose from just a couple of threads and posts from a very small percent of members.

As for you "Country of origin" thread. You couldn't to walked into any bar, anywhere between the Bible belt in the States and whatever desert you're in right now, and not get into a fight after saying that. You may have meant it as a joke but when people look at typed words, they can't see the facial expressions and mannerisms of the poster behind it to get a feel for the persons demeanor. That thread was easily construed as confrontational and if someone had have said that about your Country I would have gotten a case in the ass too, just as you would have.

But, aside from these last three of four threads, the rest of your nearly 2000 posts went off pretty well, huh? Why can't we just put the the last few behind us and move on?

[Dan Pierce]

My internet forum rule of thumb: if I can't add anything positive to the conversation then I shut the f#*& up.
I come here [and other forums] to learn, laugh, and dispense my limited knowledge.
dP

[Blue Bull]

I think many has shown their true colours.Not on the original thread,but in the "Why I'm running away" thread.There were comments made regarding ...expansion of member numbers,but decrease in the quality of the posts.Posts in bad form etc etc.Now we all know who those remarks were intended for ... if seen in context of AJs "I cant take it anymore " drama.I take note of that comments.I admire honesty.

That said,its water under the bridge (or like one heavyweight boxer said "It runs like a ducks water of my back" )

Time to move on.I found this site more about people,than watches,but from now on I will concentate on the watch part,where I have learned and contnue to learn from those that know more than I do.As a site for info on Rolex,TRF cannot be beaten.

[Gaijin]

Chad is an honorable man. Lets all stop this and get back to our Rolex. We all our different. Lets honor the diversity and accept each other.

If you don't like a post or a poster, ignore them. Don't judge them.

Its just an internet forum and we all have at least one thing in common and that is our love of Rolex. Lets build on or at least focus on that.

Love you all.

[roadcarver]

Amen to that!

Originally Posted by KansaiVet

Chad is an honorable man. Lets all stop this and get back to our Rolex. We all our different. Lets honor the diversity and accept each other.

If you don't like a post or a poster, ignore them. Don't judge them.

Its just an internet forum and we all have at least one thing in common and that is our love of Rolex. Lets build on or at least focus on that.

Love you all.

[walds11]

I just ignore posts that don't float my boat. Easy as that.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by walds11

I just ignore posts that don't float my boat. Easy as that.

Fair comment.....well said!!

[Blue Bull]

Steve Martin plays the role of Rambo in the new sequel ... "Unsavory Characters".

[leopardprey]

The Internet can be nasty
JANET KORNBLUM, USA TODAY

by Keith Simmons, USA TODAYBrooke Brodack remembers her first online "hater."

The person posted rude comments about her YouTube video nearly two years ago, says Brodack, 21, of San Francisco, whose videos show her lip-syncing and creating characters. "It was shocking to me. Why would someone want to be so mean for no reason?"

Why, indeed? Nasty comments, sometimes even death threats, have become ubiquitous on virtually any Web site that seeks to engage readers in discussion.

"Ur ugly u suk and u should die," says a typical comment beneath one of Brodack's many videos, among the most popular on YouTube. Such vulgar messages have inspired heated discussions on YouTube message boards.

The Internet always has had an anything-goes atmosphere where flame wars and harsh language are common. Now there are more places than ever for people to spout their thoughts - for better or worse, often with relative anonymity - thanks to the explosion in blogs, social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace and comments sections on nearly every news site.But a series of incidents, including one involving a female technology blogger who briefly went into hiding after receiving sexually explicit death threats, has made online incivility an increasingly hot topic and fueled a debate over how to balance free speech with social etiquette.

"The information superhighway has become the mean streets of cyburbia," says Silicon Valley technology forecaster Paul Saffo. "It's just gotten steadily worse.

"If cocktail parties were like the Internet, half the people would come home every night dripping wet from glasses of Chardonnay tossed in their faces," Saffo says. "There are two ways to get famous in cyberspace: Say something clever and memorable, or say something outrageous. And unfortunately, it's a lot easier to be outrageous than clever and memorable."

On many online sites, people are kind and supportive and have formed virtual communities.

"People on the 'Net are overwhelmingly trustworthy and civil to each other," says Craig Newmark, founder of Craigslist, the popular community bulletin board site. "But there's always fanatic and crazy people out there."Like many sites, Craigslist relies largely on readers to police behavior: If enough people flag an ad or comment as inappropriate, it's removed automatically or reviewed.

Many sites, including those operated by newspapers, remove offensive comments reported by readers or staff members.

"They want to allow free speech, but at the same time, they want to do it in a respectable way," says Ellyn Angelotti, interactivity editor at the Poynter Institute, which does continuing education for journalists. "They want to make sure it's not turning their other users away."

'It really crossed the line'
Several newspapers, wary of outrageous posts by readers, have banned all comments during major news events. That's what happened in April at The Roanoke Times in Virginia, which shut down a message board it had set up to discuss the deadly shootings at Virginia Tech.

Initial comments were "very civil," says online editor John Jackson, but they quickly turned ugly. "All of a sudden, we started noticing the nastier comments."

He can't recall exactly what they said but remembers they were laced with profanity.

"It was really a no-brainer decision to take it down because it really crossed the line so terribly," Jackson says.

At The Orange County (Calif.) Register, editors had to remind readers that the rules of discussion required civil conversation after several nasty and often profane comments were posted in response to a March story about an obese woman who had given birth to a baby she hadn't known she was carrying.

The newspaper now automatically removes a comment after two - rather than three - complaints from readers. It also uses trained retirees to monitor the boards, says deputy Web site editor Jeff Light.

Although many of the comments were "horrible and unacceptable," Light says such feedback from readers - even when it's rude - can be enlightening to journalists.

"I was looking at it and said, 'Oh look, these people are enraged by the way we had looked at the story.' Unfortunately that was all lost because their rage was so ugly and inarticulate. But I still think there was value in there. Not everybody sees things the way a middle-of-the-road, liberal newspaper reporter sees things. They see things in many different ways, and that's why we have comments."

The Sacramento (Calif.) Bee recently decided to do away with anonymous comments and requires readers to use their real names.

Michael Bugeja, author and director of the Greenlee School of Journalism and Communication at Iowa State University, says that practice is the least newspapers should do. "If you want enlightened conversations on your site, people have to use their real names," he says, adding that news sites also should clearly differentiate comments from stories.

USA TODAY, which launched comments boards in March, requires people to register and provide a valid e-mail address before they are allowed to post comments. The newspaper also uses filters to catch profanity in postings and asks readers to report abuse. Repeat offenders may be blocked from posting on the site.

"We're in the infancy of this," says USA TODAY executive editor Kinsey Wilson.

"The hope is the intelligence of the crowd will help inform the news in the long run. Everybody's experimenting with this and trying to find how to make it more valuable, how to keep it civil and how to keep it more constructive."

But sometimes, as Newmark says, people go a little crazy. On the Web, writing under pseudonyms can allow people to feel free to say whatever they want with little fear of retribution, says Judith Martin, who writes the syndicated Miss Manners column.

Anonymity on the Internet is relative, however.

People who use pseudonyms while posting on Web sites actually may be trackable through their Internet protocol address, a unique designation that allows computers to communicate with others on the Internet. Still, most sites won't try to track someone unless there's a legal reason, such as a subpoena.

Even when people use their real names, they don't always feel the ramifications of their words: The online world puts blinders on us.

"Without seeing the immediate consequences of rudeness on the recipient's face or in their voice, it is easier to cross boundaries," says Jeffrey Cole, director of the Center for the Digital Future at the University of Southern California's Annenberg School for Communication.

People "forget that there are real people reading what they write," Newmark says.

This month, several people, some of them anonymous, went to great pains to post online spoilers of the new "Harry Potter" book before it was released.

Why did they do it?

Some said they hated "Potter" author J.K. Rowling's books and all the publicity they generate. Others said they did it for kicks.

"It was fun for myself at the expense of others," one 17-year-old from Pittsburgh said when contacted by USA TODAY.

'Undiscoverable' posters
The spoilers were irritating, but they were harmless compared with some of the personal attacks that have popped up on blogs.

Kathy Sierra, an author and computer game developer from Denver, kept a popular blog about designing software. But after receiving a series of sexually graphic and threatening posts this year, including death threats and a picture of her neck next to a noose, Sierra was so shaken she suspended writing the blog in March. She also canceled a public appearance, saying she was afraid to leave home.

As a longtime blogger, she says, she had confronted people who intentionally write threats or comments meant to shock. But these threats "crossed the line to be frightening."

"Even if the chances are really low that it will carry over into real life, it's not worth the risk. It's frightening that people hate just based on visibility. There's a lot of hate out there. Why? Nobody really knows."

She did call local police but didn't have enough evidence to pursue charges. The poster was anonymous and, as she says, "any halfway decent hacker can make themselves undiscoverable."

It's rude everywhere
Perhaps the Internet simply is reflecting an increasing rudeness in everyday life as displayed on talk radio, TV talk shows and in political discourse.

"Society has gotten very abrasive," Martin says. "In the slightest altercation, people come out swinging and swearing."

But the online world is markedly different from the offline one, Martin says. In real life, people have learned that there are rules they dare not break. For instance, racism is now considered intolerable, she says, pointing out that radio shock jock Don Imus was fired in April for a racist comment about members of the Rutgers women's basketball team.

Online, people feel free to express all sorts of otherwise socially unacceptable thoughts - often without repercussions. "Civilization is about thinking before you express everything," Martin says.

She and others say online nastiness should be reined in. "When people find they are held accountable for what they say or write, then they tend to want to restrain themselves," she says.

Tim O'Reilly of O'Reilly Media, a technology book publisher in Sebastopol, Calif., responded to the threats to his friend Sierra by calling for a code of conduct for blogs. He has urged bloggers to ban anonymous comments and to delete threatening or libelous comments.

"There is a kind of ethic on the Internet that says it's OK to be abusive, or to have to tolerate it, in the interest of free speech," O'Reilly says. "It's a mistake."

Recently, O'Reilly Media has "shifted our focus from a code of conduct to developing technology that will allow blog readers to participate in moderating comments," says O'Reilly spokeswoman Sara Winge. "We think that's more likely to get widely adopted than a written code that requires agreement from bloggers."

Saffo agrees the solution should be technological, "where the network becomes the nanny," he says. "My concern is that this is not a self-correcting phenomenon. The bad will drive out the good."

The best thing to do in the meantime may be simply to ignore the nastiness as much as possible.

"I get things like death threats or, 'If I ever see you I'm going to kill you,'" says Brodack, known on YouTube as Brookers. "There is always foul language included. It's very immature. I would understand if it was actual constructive criticism, but it's not.

"I would say for every 20 positive comments, I get one negative one. I just kind of ignore them. It's the same thing over and over. It's a waste of time, truthfully."

(Contributing: Maria Puente, USA TODAY.)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by walds11

I just ignore posts that don't float my boat. Easy as that.

And that just about sums it up it just a few very true words.Now we have a PM system that should be the members first approach, and not bickering on the public form.This forum has some great guys who do a lot of work in the background to keep TRF running smoothly.And this needless bickering stops now its as simple as that.

[JJ Irani]

And STOP blaming poor JJ for all the mess.....I ain't cleaning up!!

Afraid JJ this is not a joking matter,we mods are quite serious, this bickering among all members stops now... Padi.

[Andad]

Hi Chad,

Wow,

I hope you cut and pasted that.

[Blue Bull]

I guess the safest way is be absolute to the point.No humour,jest,joke or leg pulling.Going to be boring,but then there can be no misunderstanding.

Smilies have left the building.

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Blue Bull

I guess the safest way is be absolute to the point.No humour,jest,joke or leg pulling.Going to be boring,but then there can be no misunderstanding.

Smilies have left the building.

This place is going to be what you make of it. Smiles and jokes worked just fine for you up until two days ago. But, a small handful of people took issue with a topic you were involved in, so in turn, you took issue with them. If those few people are going to make you react like this and give up your good time here, you're not being very sensible and you're right, it's going to be boring.....for you.

[Blue Bull]

Originally Posted by C.J.

This place is going to be what you make of it. Smiles and jokes worked just fine for you up until two days ago. But, a small handful of people took issue with a topic you were involved in, so in turn, you took issue with them. If those few people are going to make you react like this and give up your good time here, you're not being very sensible and you're right, it's going to be boring.....for you.

No worries,like our Aussie mates always say.Having issues with them ~ not worth it.The enjoyment of the forum goes on.

[dman]

We need an icon for tissues so guys can use it for all the crying.

[DavoD]

I am still a baby in this forum but what attract me most a part from the Rolex discussion is the colourful personality and character of each individual.

We all are not perfect and it is a matter of time that someone let us down or we let someone down. True friendship whether it is on-line or in real world will look beyond any short coming and accept your mate for who he/she is.