R.I.P Baseball

[nodnarb757]

As you all may know, Barry(yes, that Barry. The one who's head grew 2 hat sizes and shoe size grew 3 sizes after he turned 30. The same Barry who's best friend, his trainer, is in prison for "allegedly" distributing steroids. But of course, he never took them. He took Flax Seed.) Bonds broke Hank Aarons Home run record this evening. Push the steroids aside, should we really exalt someone that is not only a jerk to his teammates, the press, but also the fans of the Non Steroid Era Major League Baseball organization?
R.I.P. Baseball

[Gaijin]

Sad. State of things though. They were technically never banned when he took them (wait he never did) I think.



Whatever. Sad either way.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by KansaiVet

Sad. State of things though. They were technically never banned when he took them (wait he never did) I think.



Whatever. Sad either way.

Actually, baseball banned steroid use in 1991. Unfortunately, they had no testing policy in place to enforce the ban. Nevertheless, it was in place.

I am torn here. I don't like Bonds as a player (from his days in Pittsburgh beating my Mets in the early 90's). However, I am not naive enough to think he was the only one, nor do I think pitchers are all innocent in this. To me, it's a record, but nothing to celebrate. My personal opinion, without any proof, is that he took all sorts of stuff and it helped him achieve this, but he didn't need anything to make him a great player. Already was one. It's a tragedy of envy and greed, and his name will be more infamous than famous in the history of the game. But, it was apparently what he wanted.

[Robb]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Actually, baseball banned steroid use in 1991. Unfortunately, they had no testing policy in place to enforce the ban. Nevertheless, it was in place.

I am torn here. I don't like Bonds as a player (from his days in Pittsburgh beating my Mets in the early 90's). However, I am not naive enough to think he was the only one, nor do I think pitchers are all innocent in this. To me, it's a record, but nothing to celebrate. My personal opinion, without any proof, is that he took all sorts of stuff and it helped him achieve this, but he didn't need anything to make him a great player. Already was one. It's a tragedy of envy and greed, and his name will be more infamous than famous in the history of the game. But, it was apparently what he wanted.

I agree. Steroids dont make you a better player. They also dont make you connect with the ball........ The guy may be a dick head but you have to give credit where credit is due.

BTW. It took Hank over 12,000 at bats to get 755

Bonds did it in less than 10,000 at bats


The way I look at it, There are tons of players that are on steroids but they are not all smashing the ball!!!!!

[charles]

Originally Posted by Robb

I agree. Steroids dont make you a better player. They also dont make you connect with the ball........ The guy may be a dick head but you have to give credit where credit is due.

BTW. It took Hank over 12,000 at bats to get 755

Bonds did it in less than 10,000 at bats


The way I look at it, There are tons of players that are on steroids but they are not all smashing the ball!!!!!

Wrong...Bonds was/is a great hitter and would've been first ballot hall of fame no questions asked. Steroids/HGH/EPO/etc. didn't make him a better hitter but they clearly gave him the recovery/endurance needed to play everyday AND they gave him the strength to turn doubles/warning track power into long ball power. Swing a heavier bat, more bat velocity, more upper body, stronger legs all equate to more home runs. On top of that, he cheated to attain the record...

[Blue Bull]

My favourite team is the Dallas Cowboys !!!!

[Robb]

Originally Posted by charles

Wrong...Bonds was/is a great hitter and would've been first ballot hall of fame no questions asked. Steroids/HGH/EPO/etc. didn't make him a better hitter but they clearly gave him the recovery/endurance needed to play everyday AND they gave him the strength to turn doubles/warning track power into long ball power. Swing a heavier bat, more bat velocity, more upper body, stronger legs all equate to more home runs. On top of that, he cheated to attain the record...

Well like I said before, there are too many players on the stuff to count BUT...... Not everyone is hitting the ball like this!!! Im not saying it doesnt give you an edge,but it doesnt make you a record breaker either!

[Lol-x]

If it was cycling he would have been banned a long time ago.
Baseball seems to have gone easy on drug users, so I guess if the governing body says it's legitimate, that it has to be respected.

[nodnarb757]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

If it was cycling he would have been banned a long time ago.
Baseball seems to have gone easy on drug users, so I guess if the governing body says it's legitimate, that it has to be respected.

Exactly right., Bud Selig has done nothing to show that he and Major League Baseball disapprove in relation to drug use (don't even start with the B.S. Mitchell investigation.). So, by proxy, he has let it happen, and now us, the fans have to see him take one of the games most precious records and deface it. MLB stood by and let it become legitimate.

[charles]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

If it was cycling he would have been banned a long time ago.
Baseball seems to have gone easy on drug users, so I guess if the governing body says it's legitimate, that it has to be respected.

Exactly true...cycling takes an absolute beating and meanwhile they're the only sport actively dealing with the problem rather than sweeping it under the rug.

[Gaijin]

Go Mudhens!!


Don't know anything about that other than Klinger from the show M*A*S*H was from Toledo and loved the Mudhens!!

[nodnarb757]

Originally Posted by KansaiVet

Go Mudhens!!


Don't know anything about that other than Klinger from the show M*A*S*H was from Toledo and loved the Mudhens!!

Actually, the Hens are doing quite well. I can stand in the building I work and look right down onto 5th 3rd Field. It is a beautiful ballpark. Plus, Adults get in at 8$, and kids are 6$!

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by KansaiVet

Go Mud Hens!!


Don't know anything about that other than Klinger from the show M*A*S*H was from Toledo and loved the Mud Hens!!

[Paulie]

You can't blame steroids for the Cubs doing so well, and the Sox being dog last.... I hope.

[Mrdi]

Yeh,
But where do you gat a Mud Hen's hat?

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by Mrdi

Yeh,
But where do you gat a Mud Hens hat?

My we're getting a bit lazy, aren't we?

[Rubenonfire]

Just a sad comment about the state of the game, but all professional sports have been tainted with cheating pretty much since their inception. Spitballs, sharpened spikes, "greenies", amphetamines, steroids whatever you want to call it...it's been around forever.

Barry's just a lightning rod because he's A) breaking the most important sports record in history and B) is widely considered to be a "jerk." Am I happy that he broke the record? No, of course not. Will he FOREVER be the poster-boy for the "Steroid Era" of baseball? Yes. Will someone come behind him and break it? Of COURSE...especially if they're a juiced up freak as well.

In a lot of ways, history will sentence Barry better than anyone or anything else can. Whether or not someone ethically disagrees with what he did, you'll never be ever to mention his name again without immediately thinking about or mentioning the steroid scandal in the same breath.

He's put his OWN asterisk on his accomplishments. With that all said, he's a first-ballot hall-of-famer even if you take his career BEFORE the steroids. The guy has hit, slugged, been walked and stolen bases better than anyone else in our generation before there was even a question of whether or not he had touched a needle. He's an amazing hitter and no one can ever take that away from him.

[mailman]

I also think Bonds is a jerk, but a great talent before he started toking roids.


If baseball didn't have any testing policies in place until a few years ago, he should've come clean like Giambi and Sheffeild did when they were questioned. Be a man and step up and say I did it.

Did I mention he's a jerk

[Rubenonfire]

Originally Posted by mailman

Did I mention he's a jerk

Totally. I remember when Arizona State was kicking around the idea of changing the name of the street that runs adjacent to Packard Stadium (where the Sun Devil Baseball team plays) to Barry Bonds Way...there was almost a riot from the alumni association. I'd never want him to be associated with ASU EVER.

[dman]

Gets paid to hit homeruns not win a congeniality contest, and is the best in this generation. I am not a fan of his, more a JR Griff guy, but give credit due.

Besides, so many of the people that rant and rave about rights to own stuff and post pics of stuff because of certain freedoms seem to quickly forget about innocent till proven guilty. Typical of this country at the moment to pick and choose who and what they apply stuff too.

Besides, line up a whole bunch of guys from the 80's that are/were considered hero's played and took alot of the same stuff. I grew up in and around a big league club and still have college teamates playing pro ball around the globe.

To think that this one guy did anything "more" wrong than his competition is naive at best.

My 2 shillings.

[Rubenonfire]

Originally Posted by dman

Gets paid to hit homeruns not win a congeniality contest, and is the best in this generation. I am not a fan of his, more a JR Griff guy, but give credit due.

Besides, so many of the people that rant and rave about rights to own stuff and post pics of stuff because of certain freedoms seem to quickly forget about innocent till proven guilty. Typical of this country at the moment to pick and choose who and what they apply stuff too.

Besides, line up a whole bunch of guys from the 80's that are/were considered hero's played and took alot of the same stuff. I grew up in and around a big league club and still have college teamates playing pro ball around the globe.

To think that this one guy did anything "more" wrong than his competition is naive at best.

My 2 shillings.

He already admitted to taking steroids "unknowingly" *coughBScough* after they were banned by commissioner Fay Vincent in 1992, so he's "guilty", there's no question about that.
Not to mention if you* think his ridiculous increase in muscle, head, hand and foot size after his 30's was "normal" then talking about steroids in baseball should probably not be at the top of your priority list.

That being said, you're definitely right, Daren. He hasn't done anything worse than a BOATLOAD of other professional athletes have done, and my problem isn't with Barry. It's with a culture of people that are happy to turn their heads because "everyone was doing it." He's a lightining rod because of the record, and that sucks for him...oh well, he can go drown his tears in his millions. Maybe he wouldn't be if he hadn't cheated...and YES, taking a substance that was banned by the league EVEN if they didn't test for it is cheating, and I would say that about all the other athletes that have done so..McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens...the list goes on. The only difference is that now a cheater has broken the most important record in sports.

*you does not mean you specifically, Daren, or any other member of the forum. Just the population in general.

[dman]

Originally Posted by Rubenonfire

He already admitted to taking steroids "unknowingly" *coughBScough* after they were banned by commissioner Fay Vincent in 1992, so he's "guilty", there's no question about that.
Not to mention if you* think his ridiculous increase in muscle, head, hand and foot size after his 30's was "normal" then talking about steroids in baseball should probably not be at the top of your priority list.

That being said, you're definitely right, Daren. He hasn't done anything worse than a BOATLOAD of other professional athletes have done, and my problem isn't with Barry. It's with a culture of people that are happy to turn their heads because "everyone was doing it." He's a lightining rod because of the record, and that sucks for him...oh well, he can go drown his tears in his millions. Maybe he wouldn't be if he hadn't cheated...and YES, taking a substance that was banned by the league EVEN if they didn't test for it is cheating, and I would say that about all the other athletes that have done so..McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens...the list goes on. The only difference is that now a cheater has broken the most important record in sports.

*you does not mean you specifically, Daren, or any other member of the forum. Just the population in general.

Good post, I don't disagree with you at all, though Vincent may have made a rule, but it wasn't worth the ink on the paper. Banning it without testing is like saying there is law with zero law enforcement. Enough blame in this whole cluster**** to go around for everyone.

Let me ask another question, is it worse to have taken roids or bet on your own team? Just wondering, I really think it is the second one, YMMV.

[Rubenonfire]

Originally Posted by dman

Let me ask another question, is it worse to have taken roids or bet on your own team? Just wondering, I really think it is the second one, YMMV.

Haha...I KNEW you were going to ask me that!

They're both equally bad, because both destroy the integrity of the game the same way in one key component...doing anything for money.

If an imaginary hall-of-famer player turned coach were accused of doing this (we'll call him "Paul Orchid") and it could be proved that he bet on his own team to LOSE while he was either playing for or managing that team, that would be terrible, and I would agree far worse than taking steroids, IMO.

The problem is (just like Barry), Paul Orchid has already been convicted in the court of public opinion for doing so, and there's really no way (other than his own statements) to truly prove that he did NOT bet against the Reds. He's guilty of gambling against his own team by default, and only NOT betting at ALL could have saved him from that, just like Barry not ever taking steroids would be the only way to prevent the "asterisk" from exisiting in the history of baseball. But also like Barry, "Orchid" had a hall of fame career BEFORE the scandal and if the Hall is really exclusively about baseball accomplishments then BOTH deserve to go.

[dman]

Originally Posted by Rubenonfire

Haha...I KNEW you were going to ask me that!

They're both equally bad, because both destroy the integrity of the game the same way in one key component...doing anything for money.

If an imaginary hall-of-famer player turned coach were accused of doing this (we'll call him "Paul Orchid") and it could be proved that he bet on his own team to LOSE while he was either playing for or managing that team, that would be terrible, and I would agree far worse than taking steroids, IMO.

The problem is (just like Barry), Paul Orchid has already been convicted in the court of public opinion for doing so, and there's really no way (other than his own statements) to truly prove that he did NOT bet against the Reds. He's guilty of gambling against his own team by default, and only NOT betting at ALL could have saved him from that, just like Barry not ever taking steroids would be the only way to prevent the "asterisk" from exisiting in the history of baseball. But also like Barry, "Orchid" had a hall of fame career BEFORE the scandal and if the Hall is really exclusively about baseball accomplishments then BOTH deserve to go.

[chris_nor_cal]

i think hes a complete pric*

[Bama]

Actually I change my mind about Bonds being on steroids. It is obvious from looking at his rookie card that he has always been physically fit.

[Robb]

[dubyatf]

Baseball is a joke - I just can't get into at all any more.

[astcell]

I went to a baseball game once because I wanted to see 18 millionaires in one place.

[dman]

Originally Posted by astcell

I went to a baseball game once because I wanted to see 18 millionaires in one place.

And that was just the guys on the bench.