GMT Master Help Needed :)

[JoDavis]

Hi Everyone! I originally posted on another link, but someone redirected me to the Vintage page :) My late Dads GMT Master was sent away to Rolex, it is in a very very sorry state (he was a merchant seaman so it took a lot of rough and tumble and then he just didn't look after it in his later years) Anyway, Rolex have come back to advise that it needs: new bracelet (which it does as my dad put a non rolex issue one on it :( New Dial as its peeling/cracked, New Oscillating weight, new bezel, New Hands as damaged and other bits and pieces - basically a complete overhaul! I have been advised by others to not allow Rolex to touch it and to have a Vintage Rolex watch specialist look at it... But it really is in a bad way - pics attached! Rolex quoted me £1900.00, and since Im not getting it fixed to sell on or anything (want to keep and eventually pass onto my son) was wondering if I should let Rolex fix it and basically make it a new watch, or should I bite the bullet and find a Vintage Rolex specialist so it does retain its value incase my son chooses to sell, god forbid!!!! THanks so much, just really not sure what to do, its a lot of money, and im by no means rich but know its to good a watch to just leave decaying in a drawer, as it has for the past 2 years Jo

[Tools]

Generally speaking, Rolex will replace the older parts such as dial, hands, insert and so forth and destroy the actual "value" of a vintage watch..

For most collectors it is not the place to send your watch unless you are comfortable with a significant reduction in it's value, but receiving a very much like new watch.. It's a trade-off.

There are restoration professionals that can stabilize the dial and hands and overhaul the movement with minimal affect on value... but you have to want the watch to retain it's vintage flavor...

The answer to your initial question is yes.. It is definitely "worth" 1900GBP, although that will be getting close to the actual value of the timepiece.. it will not, however, approach the sentimental value of a properly restored heirloom - good for another lifetime of use.

[harry in montreal]

Easy.
Just have a good ccertified watchmaker clean the movement and replace the Tube so that the crown locks down correctly.

any problems with the band should be repaired and not replaced. you should be able toget it in nice wearable condigtion for less than 500pounds. dont waste your money at rolex. they will ruin the watch!

[andromeda160]

I would send it to somone with a rolex parts account, like Rikki that way you can get all of your old parts back I think if you want to have a new looking watch with working lume and what not

WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T CHANGE THE DIAL OR HANDS!!!!!!!

[MichaelB_Can]

I would Not go to Rolex ! Go to a independent guy and keep as much as possible (of your Dads watch) original.
To me it doesn't look all that bad. Rolex will tell you to get lots changed. But remember that most of the value is in the Dial. A rough original dial is better than a replacement any day.


Mike B , Canada ⌚

[MichaelB_Can]

I took a second look & it does look pretty good . Even cleaning the crystal will make a huge difference. You have a nice watch there. It's got it's own character !


Mike B , Canada ⌚

[77T]

Jo:
We meet again!

Your dial and hands are in much better shape than either of the two I showed you earlier. In my mind I'd leave them alone.

Is it possible your Dad had it serviced before? It looks like the crystal was replaced at least once IMHO. I think the plexi may not be original Rolex - but that was often done when a non-Rolex watchmaker serviced a watch. The magnification of the cyclops seems different (see pic below of a good one).
Putting a correct new Rolex acrylic crystal is normal in a service.





The bezel insert looks original and I'd keep it even if you opt for a new one during the refurb. That way you can always put it back to original.

Can you show us more pics of the bracelet and the clasp (inside and out)?
And the backside of the watch case?

I'm sure they can be touched up to look a bit better and repaired to ensure it is safe from failure - but that is something to look at.

Overall, maybe contact Bob Ridley at Watchmakers.com - a great vintage guy. If the bracelet needs refurb beyond his experience - then Michael Young for bracelet restoration.
Also, Rik Dietel at Timecareinc.com (and "Rikki" here on TRF) is a great certified watchmaker who works with Vintage lovingly.

[Steve748]

Bill Rice in near Beverly will do a sympathetic restoration and replace what is needed rather than the RSC that will replace everything that is not perfect. He will return the bits you want back and the cost will be more reasonable too.
He has serviced four or five of the Rolex watches I have owned and I have been very happy with them on return.

[storm66]

I get my Vintage Rolex serviced by 'SuperlativeTime' in Ealing ,London....
Give them a Google then ring,as I noticed you are in the UK

[Gmt1970]

Originally Posted by Steve748

Bill Rice in near Beverly will do a sympathetic restoration and replace what is needed rather than the RSC that will replace everything that is not perfect. He will return the bits you want back and the cost will be more reasonable too.
He has serviced four or five of the Rolex watches I have owned and I have been very happy with them on return.

I agree Bill Rice did a fantastic job on my gmt master 1675 , worth every penny.

[GeoGio Greece]

I will only repeat what all the others ( ...and more experts than me ) advised, keep the changes to a minimum.

From what I see, leaving aside the "crystal", which beeing acrylic can be easily polished to a level that can look again like new, there is nothing else that needs to be replaced.

The service of the movement needs a specialist who will RESPECT this watch, and will not treat it as a piece that needs to be as NOS.

The hands -dial and case, giving this watch its unique value, shall remain.

Enjoy and post some after pics.

[JoDavis]

Thanks so much everyone, feeling so much more happy now :)
77T - took your advice and came over to vintage.. and had loads of great advice! you mention plexi.. thats the glass/plastic right? As far as I know its genuine.. he had it serviced about 10yrs ago, and cost him over £400 then.. took to a rolex retailer but not sure if they serviced it or sent it to Rolex.. so can be 100% sure its AOK! The bracelet on the other hand is a Fake... eeeek, how could he.. so that definately needs replacing, but having spoken to people, will try and find a genuine age appropriate one instead of getting Rolex to put one on :) And your pic on here looks fab, thats how I imagine a Rolex to look all nice and clean and perfect.. not shabby and worn like mine :/ Who would have thought very vintage looking would be more desireable than nice shiny new looking ha ha shows what I know and so glad I found this site when I did!

[JoDavis]

Thanks Storm66 will look them up :)

[storm66]

Originally Posted by JoDavis

Thanks Storm66 will look them up :)

His name is Graham,give him a ring........he's never let me down.
I've also bought 3 Rolex and an Omega from him in the past

[JoDavis]

OK So after taking lots of advice (thanks everyone BTW!) - I had decided to get Rolex to do the service on the watch, and return to me with the face/hands etc left looking worn. (mainly to get paperwork from Rolex to help validate authenticity as dont have papers) Anyway, phoned Rolex and they say they WILL NOT do the service alone, as the face is badly damaged if a bit falls off and goes into movement it may stop the watch working anyway :( Said I wanted to retain the vintage look to it as it was my Dads and she rambled on and on about it "will still look the same only newer"?!?! Really don't know what do do, I'm kinda thinking should I just let them do all the work (but keep bezel worn look) as Im wanting it to pass onto my son rather than an "investment" as such, and surely even with all new parts it is still cheaper by a mile than buying a new Rolex! Or should I just get it back and start from scratch... thought I had it all sorted but feel like im banging my head against a brick wall! Also dont see why, if they replace the hands and face they cant send me the original parts back.(it states on est that Parts supplied are on exchange basis and they reserve the right to retain all parts changed). I mean, what good are they to Rolex if they say theyre damaged and only fit for the bin!!!!!!

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by JoDavis

OK So after taking lots of advice (thanks everyone BTW!) - I had decided to get Rolex to do the service on the watch, and return to me with the face/hands etc left looking worn. (mainly to get paperwork from Rolex to help validate authenticity as dont have papers) Anyway, phoned Rolex and they say they WILL NOT do the service alone, as the face is badly damaged if a bit falls off and goes into movement it may stop the watch working anyway :( Said I wanted to retain the vintage look to it as it was my Dads and she rambled on and on about it "will still look the same only newer"?!?! Really don't know what do do, I'm kinda thinking should I just let them do all the work (but keep bezel worn look) as Im wanting it to pass onto my son rather than an "investment" as such, and surely even with all new parts it is still cheaper by a mile than buying a new Rolex! Or should I just get it back and start from scratch... thought I had it all sorted but feel like im banging my head against a brick wall! Also dont see why, if they replace the hands and face they cant send me the original parts back.(it states on est that Parts supplied are on exchange basis and they reserve the right to retain all parts changed). I mean, what good are they to Rolex if they say theyre damaged and only fit for the bin!!!!!!

get it back and start from scratch, its been sitting in a drawer for the past 2 years, no need to destroy the watch to have it back a few weeks sooner.

[mjclark32]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

get it back and start from scratch, its been sitting in a drawer for the past 2 years, no need to destroy the watch to have it back a few weeks sooner.

x2

[datejust24]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

get it back and start from scratch, its been sitting in a drawer for the past 2 years, no need to destroy the watch to have it back a few weeks sooner.

x3!

[MichaelB_Can]

Get a receipt from an independent . It will prove there was a service ! Get it back , QUICK !


Mike B , Canada ⌚

[oakalley]

I can't understand, and this is just a gentle criticism, but you came here asking advice about your fathers watch. Every one of the respondents advised you against taking it to a RSC. There are quite a few certified Rolex watchmakers in the UK with Rolex parts accounts. Any of those will do a gentle restoration and spend some time discussing the repairs and what you should expect to see when you pick the watch up. Rolex will not do that. they have already demonstrated their indifference to your wishes by telling you that they would not service the watch unless the dial/hands are changed. they will NOT give you your old parts back, so what you will end up with is a very nice 1675 that has a new service dial/hands and in my mind not worth nearly as much either in monetary or sentimental value. If it comes back all sparkly new is this really your fathers watch?

It's your watch, and certainly what you decide is up tp you and will have no impact one way or the other on anyone here, the only difference is most folks here, are here because they really care about vintage Rolex watches, and they are giving their advice because they want to preserve something that is really special.

[GeoGio Greece]

Originally Posted by oakalley

I can't understand, and this is just a gentle criticism, but you came here asking advice about your fathers watch. Every one of the respondents advised you against taking it to a RSC. There are quite a few certified Rolex watchmakers in the UK with Rolex parts accounts. Any of those will do a gentle restoration and spend some time discussing the repairs and what you should expect to see when you pick the watch up. Rolex will not do that. they have already demonstrated their indifference to your wishes by telling you that they would not service the watch unless the dial/hands are changed. they will NOT give you your old parts back, so what you will end up with is a very nice 1675 that has a new service dial/hands and in my mind not worth nearly as much either in monetary or sentimental value. If it comes back all sparkly new is this really your fathers watch?

It's your watch, and certainly what you decide is up tp you and will have no impact one way or the other on anyone here, the only difference is most folks here, are here because they really care about vintage Rolex watches, and they are giving their advice because they want to preserve something that is really special.

+1. I would accept what shall be done to keep my watch running and look as it should ( vintage ) and not what they suggest, as their "menu" has only one option "make it new again".

It reminds us of Henry Ford and model T. You could get any color you preffered, provided it was black.

[MichaelB_Can]

Beautifully said , Oakalley !


Mike B , Canada ⌚

[Vincent65]

I'd have Rolex overhaul it and just ask them not to change the dial and hands. All else would be good to replace IMHO (i.e. plexi, tube/crown, and internal parts that they will do as standard).

edit - just seen that they insist on changing dial/hands, so go with an independent...

[T. Ferguson]

If it was my watch I'd contact Bob Ridley. For a nice vintage piece like this I would not send it to Rolex (and I've nothing against the RSC). It's just that it seems to me with an independent who is skillful in vintage Rolexes you have the best of both worlds. If you want you can probably have all the parts replaced BUT keep the original parts in your possession should you later want to restore it back to original.

But you would be amazed at what some of these guys can do with all the original parts to make it look nice again. As far as the bracelet goes, it's after market anyway. I suppose you could source a period correct proper Rolex bracelet and replace the one you have.

[JoDavis]

Sorry if Ive offended you oakalley :/ I didnt take it to RSC, it was already with them when I posted my thread, unfortunately, I'm not a Rolex expert, and never thought I would ever be in possession of one, but as non of my siblings, not even my brother, wanted it - I chose to take it, even though at the time we didnt think it was even working. I came to this site after getting estimate from RSC and done some research, and realised that maybe I had done the wrong thing sending to them in the first place.
As for taking advice from people who have been around rolex vitage for years, I have had a lot of private messages, majority advising that it will be OK to allow RSC to do the service but not touch anything else. Thus the reason I phoned Rolex to see if this could be done. Its was never a case of ignoring what everyone was telling me, if this was so I would have given the go ahead to Rolex to make it all shiny and new.
Im really sorry if I've offended anyone with my naivety regarding this, and I am going to request the watch back and contact a few of the recommended restorers and see what they suggest.

[GeoGio Greece]

Originally Posted by JoDavis

Sorry if Ive offended you oakalley :/ I didnt take it to RSC, it was already with them when I posted my thread, unfortunately, I'm not a Rolex expert, and never thought I would ever be in possession of one, but as non of my siblings, not even my brother, wanted it - I chose to take it, even though at the time we didnt think it was even working. I came to this site after getting estimate from RSC and done some research, and realised that maybe I had done the wrong thing sending to them in the first place.
As for taking advice from people who have been around rolex vitage for years, I have had a lot of private messages, majority advising that it will be OK to allow RSC to do the service but not touch anything else. Thus the reason I phoned Rolex to see if this could be done. Its was never a case of ignoring what everyone was telling me, if this was so I would have given the go ahead to Rolex to make it all shiny and new.
Im really sorry if I've offended anyone with my naivety regarding this, and I am going to request the watch back and contact a few of the recommended restorers and see what they suggest.

As said, its your watch, its your decision. Taking advice from this forum by the experts ( = people who really love vintage watches ), does not mean that you are obliged by rule to follow it. Its like management. You gather the info, you decide on what's best in every case. But to my opinion, the info given to you here, in the open and not by pm's, was to your benefit.

Although I wear Rolex watches since 1971, the a great % of the knowledge I have now was gained by these posts here in TRF and from my visits to the watch service becoming a friend with one of them. And I still learn from these posts. Believe me !!

[MichaelB_Can]

I would go with a good independent in the UK . I'm sure there are top notch guys there !


Mike B , Canada ⌚

[harry in montreal]

JoDAVIS,

you didnt offend anyone! we see tons of watches that have been butchered everyday on here and on ebay. you aer smart and caught it before it was too late. i dont blame you for wanting rolex to clean it. it will be expensive, but it will be waterproof, guaranteed, and the mainspring of the watch will be a rolex part. it should likely run better than an independent using a non-rolex spring if they did not have a parts account at rolex. in sum, you did well. enjoy your watch and post a pic of the final product. i found your post, your watch, and your story delightful. we WANT people like you to be interested in the site. ignore any negativity above and focus on the other posts. Harry

[Puffy]

that can easily be fixed, no worries

as has been suggested speak to Bill Rice in the UK, http://www.williamricewatches.com/

he has serviced many of my vintage watches and he does great work

[JoDavis]

Thank you again everyone. I am on the case and 1st thing tomorrow will be contacting both Bill Rice and Greame, see what they both say and arranging to send the watch in to one or the other when I receive it back from RSC. I obviously want to restore it, and keep it vintage if possible, but I honestly didn't know about any of this before joining this sight, now tho, I feel quite educated on the subject (believe it or not!)