Stolen Rolexs

[Jim Smyth]

Hello, I am new to the forum but not to Rolex's. I have been out of the high end watch game for 25+ years (kids finally grown and have some spare cash) and have just this summer gotten back in and bought a Sinn 757 Diapal. I have owned 4 Rolex's in the past and have my 5th being delivered today.

I have been doing some reading here and just read of a guy that had his Rolex taken off his wrist by force in Buenos Aires and my heart skipped a few beats reading his post. I have always worried about this in the past but I have had my watches like everything else insured and was just careful where I went and when I went and tried not to print too bad. But we all know it can happen anywhere.

So my question is this. Say you have your Rolex stolen. You obviously get the Police involved and you eventually get the Police the serial number for the report. Now Rolex's will work well for a while but will eventually need service. Do Rolex watchmakers have a way to check on watch serial numbers to in fact see if they have been stolen during service intervals? I would assume a RASC would do this. But do smaller type watchmakers also do this? Is it prudent for someone who has a watch stolen to also inform Rolex some how?

Any info is appreciated, TIA.

[77T]

If the watchmaker is Rolex certified with a parts account, s/he is supposed to check the Rolex database for authenticity and if it was stolen then it would show up as such. While the RSC takes immediate action, each indie watchmaker must make their own decision if you leave it with them. Ordinarily they won't attempt to confiscate it right at the counter - too dangerous...

[Jim Smyth]

That's good to know. I would hope that if my Rolex is ever stolen and then brought in for repair that the person would be arrested for theft or at least run it back up the tree to try to find out who stole it in the first place and then arrest them.

My wife has a older ladies datejust that hasnt worked for the last 10 years and has been in the safe. I found a local guy that does watch service out of his house part time (long time watchmaker). He told me her watch should be ready before Christmas and I am going to ask him the same question when I pick it up to see what he says.

[cop414]

A warm welcome to TRF Jim!

[Racerdj]

Originally Posted by 77T

If the watchmaker is Rolex certified with a parts account, s/he is supposed to check the Rolex database for authenticity and if it was stolen then it would show up as such. While the RSC takes immediate action, each indie watchmaker must make their own decision if you leave it with them. Ordinarily they won't attempt to confiscate it right at the counter - too dangerous...

I was hoping this is the case.

[gpfps]

If a person brings in a watch at rsc and it comes up stolen. Here in USA you are innocent till proven guilty . Very very hard to get a arrest warrant on this person, you have have PC to believe that this person did the crime. Some thing like this it could have been years ago. The person say did the crime and years latter sends it in, comes up stolen. The person will say he bought it used from some one selling it years ago. The trail is ice cold now to prove otherwise . Can not believe Rolex can keep a watch , when they do not know who did the crime in the first place. Then you have consider jurisdiction where the crime took place they would be the ones to conduct the investigation . In a nut shell it sounds good but no way does Rolex have a legal right to keep a rolex if was reported stolen. I would get the local police involved where the RCS is located there are no legal grounds to keep a watch .

[Jim Smyth]

Innocent till proven guilty, Yes. But IMO you better have proof where you got the stolen watch from. I would sure hope there would be something that could be done if you didnt have proof of ownership with any item that had been previously reported stolen. At the very least I would hope that the item that is verified stolen by/through Rolex its at least confiscated/held and returned to the original owner if the person bringing it in cant prove how they came about being in possession of a stolen watch.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Jim Smyth

Innocent till proven guilty, Yes. But IMO you better have proof where you got the stolen watch from. I would sure hope there would be something that could be done if you didnt have proof of ownership with any item that had been previously reported stolen. At the very least I would hope that the item that is verified stolen by/through Rolex its at least confiscated/held and returned to the original owner if the person bringing it in cant prove how they came about being in possession of a stolen watch.

It doesn't matter how they prove posession, if it's stolen it will be confiscated.

[Cc1966]

Originally Posted by MonBK

It doesn't matter how they prove posession, if it's stolen it will be confiscated.

x2 and this goes with fakes also I have heard.

[Jim Smyth]

Originally Posted by MonBK

It doesn't matter how they prove posession, if it's stolen it will be confiscated.

I like hearing that ALOT! Do you know if it is then returned to its rightful owner then?

[alanc]

Originally Posted by MonBK

It doesn't matter how they prove posession, if it's stolen it will be confiscated.

Yes, this is the problem for someone who innocently buys a stolen watch, brings it in for service at RSC and then has it confiscated. From prior threads here, the odds of getting it back do not look good.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by Jim Smyth

Innocent till proven guilty, Yes. But IMO you better have proof where you got the stolen watch from. I would sure hope there would be something that could be done if you didnt have proof of ownership with any item that had been previously reported stolen. At the very least I would hope that the item that is verified stolen by/through Rolex its at least confiscated/held and returned to the original owner if the person bringing it in cant prove how they came about being in possession of a stolen watch.

Point being this is America, your innocent until they prove you stole it. 99% of the time that's impossible. And pretty sure these gangs in other country's just buy legit Rolex cases (you can buy a submariner midcase for less than $500 on eBay) then they just swap the case with a stolen case and you have an untraceable stolen Rolex.

[gpfps]

Like I said the watch could have change hands many times. For example I buy a vintage red sub here from a seller right here. Rolex says it stolen. Now the seller is one who stole it and the locked up, no he will have record where he got it from. Now that person will say shit I bought 25 years ago from a local ad, having no idea it was stolen and who the person was. There is not enough PC to prove the person bringing the watch is the one who did the crime. And Rolex keeps the watch no way. I would sue Rolex for keeping my watch prove I stole it. Other wise give it back ! So what does Rolex want to do for us who buy used rolexes ? Run to police before the sale and run the serial number each time ? It wouldn't work, think about it you have rolex just bought used a local PD is not going to run the watch through LEIN unless they feel you are the criminal .

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by gpfps

Like I said the warch could have change hands many times. For example I buy a vintage red sub here from a seller. Rolex says it stolen. Now the seller in the locked up, no he will have record where he got it from. Now that person will say shit I bought 25 years ago from a local ad, having no idea it was stolen and who the person was. There is not enough PC to prove the person bringing the watch is the one who did the crime. And Rolex keeps the watch no way. I would sue Rolex for keeping my watch prove I stole it. Other wise give it back !

I would love to be in the courtroom when you say: Prove I stole it or give it back.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by gpfps

Like I said the watch could have change hands many times. For example I buy a vintage red sub here from a seller right here. Rolex says it stolen. Now the seller is one who stole it and the locked up, no he will have record where he got it from. Now that person will say shit I bought 25 years ago from a local ad, having no idea it was stolen and who the person was. There is not enough PC to prove the person bringing the watch is the one who did the crime. And Rolex keeps the watch no way. I would sue Rolex for keeping my watch prove I stole it. Other wise give it back ! So what does Rolex want to do for us who buy used rolexes ? Run to police before the sale and run the serial number each time ? It wouldn't work, think about it you have rolex just bought used a local PD is not going to run the watch through LEIN unless they feel you are the criminal .

what would be the effect of a statute of limitations regarding the outcome if as in your example it was stolen 25 years ago??

even if the present owner in fact stole the watch, after 25 years would the person in possession be liable?

[hsfrank]

I seem to recall prior post where a person I had a notification from Rolex that they had his soul and watch in their possession. Rolex notified the police and or keeping the watch until proper ownership is proven.

[Jim Smyth]

Originally Posted by hsfrank

I seem to recall prior post where a person I had a notification from Rolex that they had his soul and watch in their possession. Rolex notified the police and or keeping the watch until proper ownership is proven.

Thats good to know and IMO how it should work. You may not be able to prosecute someone for being in possession of stolen merchandise but at least don't give it back to him. Also to make sure the rightful owner potentially gets it back after all the info is gathered. I am sure most scenarios the Insurance company already paid out so that would come into play too.

[gpfps]

MONBK FYI it would never make to court. They would never get PC to arrest you if you bring a rolex and it's listed stolen. Laugh all you want and I'll laugh at your ignorance of U.S law !

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by gpfps

MONBK FYI it would never make to court. They would never get PC to arrest you if you bring a rolex and it's listed stolen. Laugh all you want and I'll laugh at your ignorance of U.S law !

I didn't say they would arrest you, only that they will take the watch from you no matter how much you scream at them or threathen them with a lawsuit..

What part of "stolen is always stolen" are you having problems understanding?

[powerfunk]

My understanding is that Rolex will hold a watch that's been reported stolen, and contact the person who reported it stolen. But if that person can't provide the necessary proof that the watch is actually theirs in time, Rolex sends it back to whoever brought it to them, stolen or not. Possession being 9/10ths of the law and all. Rolex has to send the watch back to someone; they can't just keep it forever because somebody "reported it stolen" once.

[gpfps]

I give up. You think Rolex Co. Has the authority to keep listed stolen watches. When has been proven by law it was stolen. Give me your serial number I will call rolex and say it was stolen. They put in their questionable system, you get it serviced and they keep your watch in your way of thinking. Stolen is not the end all by rolex. Again in the U.S taking away someone property requires PC that you did the crime and or have it KNOWING it was stolen. That is whats called r and c . You have to have intent or knowledge that was stolen to be CONVICTED then you will never get the watch back. This in the U.S. Every will be different ! Rob you got the point across perfect !!!! Better than me.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by gpfps

I give up. You think Rolex Co. Has the authority to keep listed stolen watches. When has been proven by law it was stolen. Give me your serial number I will call rolex and say it was stolen. They put in their questionable system, you get it serviced and they keep your watch in your way of thinking. Stolen is not the end all by rolex. Again in the U.S taking away someone property requires PC that you did the crime and or have it KNOWING it was stolen. That is whats called r and c . You have to have intent or knowledge that was stolen to be CONVICTED then you will never get the watch back. This in the U.S. Every will be different ! Rob you got the point across perfect !!!! Better than me.

Yes, you should give up because you don't know what you are talking about..

If the watch was stolen, and properly reported, you don't get to keep it just because you bought it from the thief - it didn't belong to him to sell and it doesn't belong to you.. and you don't get your money back either.. Same holds true for any stolen item, cars, jewelry, money, etc.

Rolex will report it to the authority that they have the legal stolen property report from and that authority will decide who gets the watch, not you.

Whether you committed the crime or not is another matter and one the police would need to investigate. But it is a crime to receive stolen property.

Also, you cannot just "call Rolex" with somebodies serial number and claim it was stolen... you have to submit the proper stolen property reports...

[Oyster Al]

Originally Posted by Tools

Yes, you should give up because you don't know what you are talking about..

If the watch was stolen, and properly reported, you don't get to keep it just because you bought it from the thief - it didn't belong to him to sell and it doesn't belong to you.. and you don't get your money back either.. Same holds true for any stolen item, cars, jewelry, money, etc.

Rolex will report it to the authority that they have the legal stolen property report from and that authority will decide who gets the watch, not you.

Whether you committed the crime or not is another matter and one the police would need to investigate. But it is a crime to receive stolen property.

Also, you cannot just "call Rolex" with somebodies serial number and claim iwas stolen... you have to submit the proper stolen property reports..

I think this sums it up perfectly.

[ceconomakis]

Originally Posted by gpfps

I give up. You think Rolex Co. Has the authority to keep listed stolen watches. When has been proven by law it was stolen. Give me your serial number I will call rolex and say it was stolen. They put in their questionable system, you get it serviced and they keep your watch in your way of thinking. Stolen is not the end all by rolex. Again in the U.S taking away someone property requires PC that you did the crime and or have it KNOWING it was stolen. That is whats called r and c . You have to have intent or knowledge that was stolen to be CONVICTED then you will never get the watch back. This in the U.S. Every will be different ! Rob you got the point across perfect !!!! Better than me.

You are wrong. If one has stolen artwork no matter how legally it was purchased then the gallery, auction house or whoever has a legal obligation, I said obligation to hold it. If that person gives it back to the not rightful owner then they are trafficking in stolen goods.

This is also valid in the USA.

This is the laws and they are adhere to.
As if one was to buy more than one Rolex in Europe or Hong Kong the us customs will seize it and send to Rolex. You can cry all you want but you will never see that watch again

Selling or trafficking In stolen goods is illegal in the USA also. If you still doubt ask the people who bought art and then had it confiscated. No refund.

[playero]

Yes you are innocent until proven guilty, but the watch stays in the shop. as with the fake parts that will be destroyed and you will be notified. when stolen you can bring a sale bill from an authorized dealer or the watch remains. Rolex will not advise you to buy a watch with their brand thru internet or friends or else. I guess for the real owner to claim the watch then he has to present evidence. Go for instance to a pawn shop and show them a Rolex they will ask for papers if not available the watch value goes down a lot.

[karmatp]

George, no offence but you have been around the block, you should know by now how Rolex works.

I for one think it is a good thing. I personally know a few guys who are just waiting for their watches that were stolen to show up for a service, guess why, because they will get them back.

I am not a vintage guy, I buy newer watches. This policy is why I cough up a couple hundred more and buy from my local AD, I never have to worry about getting my watch confiscated.

[Cc1966]

I think the point has been lost here. I am not a lawyer, far from it. However, my understanding is when a watch is reported stolen and is entered into the RSC database thus so, they will confiscate it if it shows up for service. As to how it is disposed differs from country-to-country. This is where the differing opinions lie.

[Flanners]

Took my DJ into Rolex UK HQ today and I know they checked the S/N so guess if I had a stolen one or a snide it would remain with them with a visit from HM's finest for a stolen one I guess.

A person in the UK cannot possess confirmed or suspected stolen property or is suspected of doing so. It is seized for examination and proof whether purchased in good faith or not you lose it and your monies.

[DiamondJack]

And this is the reason many people will only buy pre-owned watches (whether vintage or newer) with original papers and box etc.

Far less likely for a watch with "all the trimmings" to have been stolen in the past.

But also why you should always obtain a written receipt for your watch or at the very least retain hard copy e-mail correspondance of your transaction with the seller.

There have been reported cases of watches being sold for cash and immediately being reported stolen or lost for an insurance claim.....

The watch then turns up at RSC for a service some years later and is returned to either the original owner.... who still holds all the original receipts and paperwork or the insurance company who paid out on the claim......

Good luck in proving your ownership if you are an owner further down the line.....even with a receipt.

If a watch (or any item for that matter) was originally stolen, no one after that point has any legal entitlement to the item no matter how much they paid for it or what receipts they have....... Legal title always remains with the original owner who reported the watch stolen. It's exactly the same with cars and the reason why there is a huge market now in checking if a car is stolen through on-line databases. You may be able to make a claim against a shop or trader that sold you the watch in good faith (who may be insured for such events) but very difficult to claim against a third party individual.

In relation to Rolex watches, this is also why so many people do not use RSC to service an older watch or a more recent watch with a more "varied" history and will generally prefer to use independent watchmakers.

And also why original papers have a premium other than just collectability .......

[AK797]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

And this is the reason many people will only buy pre-owned watches (whether vintage or newer) with original papers and box etc.

Far less likely for a watch with "all the trimmings" to have been stolen in the past.

But also why you should always obtain a written receipt for your watch or at the very least retain hard copy e-mail correspondance of your transaction with the seller.

There have been reported cases of watches being sold for cash and immediately being reported stolen or lost for an insurance claim.....

The watch then turns up at RSC for a service some years later and is returned to either the original owner.... who still holds all the original receipts and paperwork or the insurance company who paid out on the claim......

Good luck in proving your ownership if you are an owner further down the line.....even with a receipt.

If a watch (or any item for that matter) was originally stolen, no one after that point has any legal entitlement to the item no matter how much they paid for it or what receipts they have....... Legal title always remains with the original owner who reported the watch stolen. It's exactly the same with cars and the reason why there is a huge market now in checking if a car is stolen through on-line databases. You may be able to make a claim against a shop or trader that sold you the watch in good faith (who may be insured for such events) but very difficult to claim against a third party individual.

In relation to Rolex watches, this is also why so many people do not use RSC to service an older watch or a more recent watch with a more "varied" history and will generally prefer to use independent watchmakers.

And also why original papers have a premium other than just collectability .......

Good point on the extra value of box and papers as well as with helping with authenticity.