Gray Market Dealer Worry

[mbroyer]

My Fiancee and I just purchased a beautiful new GMT Master II from a recommended jewler and now we're starting to have doubts about the total authenticity of the arrangement. The Dealer in question sells from a reputable location (i.e., in a mall) and sells multiple watches a month; however, he is not an authorized rolex dealer. After purchasing the watch, we went to get it appraised from a jewler who is an authorized Rolex dealer and she pointed our guarantee card to be a fake within one minute (as well as the pouch that the card came in). The AD said that no one was available to take a look at the movement of the watch until next week, but everything about the watch led her to believe that it was real (e.g., hand stack, weight, etched in crown, etc.). We got a second opinion and the next AD also pointed out card to be a fake and questioned the lack of a hologram sticker on the caseback (again thought everything else about the watch led him to think it was real but couldn't open caseback).

My question to the forum is: should I have the bank block the transaction and return the watch to the dealer? I feel rushed to make this decision by 9 am tomorrow morning to prevent the dealer from obtaining the funds and refusing the return. I'm worried that if he lied about one aspect of the transaction, he could lie about the watch.

In total, we saved close to $1k on the new watch by purchasing from this individual but based on the total value of the watch, I'm not sure $1k is worth any sleepless nights. It was also our understanding when we went to this person that he was going to be an AD (though that was based on recommendation - he let us know that he was not) and that we would have the new 5 year warranty (he actually did promise us that).

Please let me know your thoughts!

[Cryten]

Photos will help. The hand stack would be a give away.

[moyski]

how about posting pictures of the watch and warranty cards in question?

hologram on the caseback? on a new GMT Master II? Assuming that's the 116710 that second AD's salesperson doesn't know what he's talking about. Rolex doesn't put hologram stickers anymore on casebacks.

[ajg1960]

Probably would have saved more from a trusted seller here, and not have these worries. When you thought he was going to be an AD, then found out he wasn't, why did you continue with the transaction? Did you contact the seller to discuss the fake papers he provided?

[crowncollection]

Return it ASAP fake warranty means no warranty at the very least


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[mbroyer]

Unfortunately, the Fiancee has the watch at the moment. I will say that if it is a fake, it is an impeccable fake. The prevailing opinion is that the watch is involved in a high-end ring of fakes. The jewler in question says that he buys in bulk from international ADs that are struggling to meet thier quotas, which is how he is able to make a margin.

My watch in question apparently comes from a Saudi Arabian AD who was struggling to make their required minimum. Theory is, to make extra-money, the AD sold their real watches to bulk buyers after removing the rolex identifying insignia (stickers, booklet, pouch, etc) which would be sold to fake Rolex producers to help with authenticity.

No doubt the accompanying accoutrements are fake, but two ADs think its likely that watch is real. I think Fiancee and I decided that we don't want to be a part of that type of sales cycle and are leaning on returning watch and blocking cash flow.

[123Blueface]

Take it back!

[mbroyer]

Fiancee is travelling but agreed to send pictures once she gets home tonight. Would be nice to get opinion of the experts before I confront dealer. The more knowledge I have going in, the better!

[the_Hunter]

If you don't feel great about the deal then take it back. We spend way to much money on these to not feel 100%

[hunterp27]

Sounds sketchy at best. I'd get my money back and come buy here from a trusted TRF seller. At best you have a real watch with counterfeit accouterments and zero warranty. Saving a grand ain't worth that in my estimation.

[TimeToGo]

What is the name of the dealer/location?

[Danny83]

show us a pic of the card we can tell you right away

[BrazenC5]

Sounds like the dealer is describing a normal gray market transaction (legit watch without mfg warranty, but sellers warranty substituted). Jomashop is the perfect example of a massive online gray market dealer. This is how they can sell cheaper than an AD.

There was mention of "trusted sellers" on this site...but they too must be buying gray market IF they are selling new...otherwise they're a middleman selling used.

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[jvmartin]

Anyone who is purposefully buying and using fake boxes and accessories is not someone to be doing business with for a genuine piece... it's a slippery slope!

[mbroyer]

Found out how to get photo off phone but can only do one at a time. Instead of posting 1,000 times, here is pic of all watch accompaniments. Now notice there are also no spare links.

[mbroyer]

So after a contentious conversation, the dealer agreed to accept the watch back and refund our money. Meant to post pictures on the forum, but I'm unfortunately not tech savy enough to do on my phone. We initially paid by check in-order to save him the credit card processing fee and tempers flared after we canceled the check so it wouldn't clear the bank. Eventually gave credit card info because we didn't want to steal watch, but at the same time like the ability to cancel the transaction if something goes awry.

Can't wait for this to be over with and then get a no-worries watch from an AD! Thanks for opinions on the forum - I am happy to know that I was correct to return.

[Jemspeed]

I'm no expert but all of that looks fine to me, although that looks like an older US, the care of your Rolex book (seems a little fishy). Perhaps the ADs that you talked to are not aware that Rolex watches sold outside the US have different warranty cards and include the warranty card in a wallet like that instead of the paper sleeve that is provided in the US. Although a closer picture of the warranty card with the serial blurred out would be more conclusive.

[jhcam8]

Originally Posted by Jemspeed

I'm no expert but all of that looks fine to me, although that looks like an older US, the care of your Rolex book (seems a little fishy). Perhaps the ADs that you talked to are not aware that Rolex watches sold outside the US have different warranty cards and include the warranty card in a wallet like that instead of the paper sleeve that is provided in the US. Although a closer picture of the warranty card with the serial blurred out would be more conclusive.

My thoughts.

[moyski]

based on the picture only 'the care of your Rolex' booklet is the only suspicious part of the package. It's a grey market watch so it is not uncommon to see incomplete packages even for a new (unused, unsized) watch. It doesn't automatically mean a watch is fake. The package is just not the same as buying from an AD! The warranty card is the new type. If the shops the OP went to for verification are indeed Rolex AD's then how come they don't recognize the new format of warranty cards? As for spare links, how many are already on the watch? If it is new then it hasn't been resized yet and there would be no spare links.

The OP saved almost $1,000 because of a few missing items in the package of a new watch. I think that's a pretty good deal!

[jetsetter19]

Is it possible that the watch purchased is stolen? and the seller provided counterfeit booklets, warranty card, and boxes?

[Rootbeer]

There's a lot of story in this thread and not even one pic of a watch.

Respectfully I think that if you don't know the product you are buying you need to either do more research or stick to an AD

[archie_bananas]

it's very simple: when you buy grey market you get the watch and the card, that's it. sometimes a box, sometimes a clear plastic pouch. this guy bought all the boxes and fillers to make it seem "nicer" for the buyer... it doesn't matter. I'll buy grey market, brand new with the card and that's that.

don't run to the bank and spazz out - that's silly. if you feel uneasy just call the guy and say very simply - "i went to an authorized dealer and they said the box and stuff was not legit - i'm assuming you just get those boxes to make a nice presentation, right?" no need for false confrontation.

[Ezkill]

I'm confused by this. I can't say that I've ever seen a brand new in box watch for sale here or somewhere else with incorrect items and fake warranty cards(according to the AD).

Not really a whole lot of mystery in how the grey market works, it's explained in several posts on this forum. I just can't see why there would be an incomplete/wrong/fake anything with a new grey market watch.

[s14roller]

I hope you don't mean you saved $1K off list price by going with some guy at the mall...

[alexthegreat123]

Don't see any issues with box and papers.
Warranty card in non US but looks OK to me. A lot of brand new watches are imported from overseas now due to attractive currency rate. In most cases dealer gets just the warranty card and the watch and adds the rest (box and booklets) here in US.

[lee2375]

From what I can see here, card looks good. Why did they say card is fake?
International cards do not have the dial and bracelet details listed most of the time. If that is what they used to determine the card is fake, they probably just aren't familiar with these international cards - since they work at a US AD, all of the ones they have seen would be US type, makes sense that they might not know whats up on the overseas ones.

The fake ones I have seen, you can spot a mile away. Nothing looks awry here.

[Dishpro01]

You had nothing to worry about. Your non AD didn't sell you a fake and the card looks real. Grey market watches doesn't mean fake. Usually the grey market dealer will provide an in house warranty equal to the one RSC would provide. Next time you will get a far better deal from a trusted seller here on the forum.

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[cedargrove]

$1000 doesn't seem like much of a discount to warrant grey market. Heck, I got double that discount from my AD on the same watch.

[Gaijin]

The ADs are making you yourself because they did not get to sell you a Rolex. Everything in the picture looks fine. Don't know about the watch but a few pics of that and you should be able to have this cleared up.

[Ccjacapital]

Could just be a grey market watch like was mentioned doesn't mean fake. We're I think you went wrong is only saving 1000.00 usd there are plenty of trusted sellers out there who could save you thousands. To save only 1000.00 might as well purchase from ad.