It's not all about HP

[superdog]

We talked not long ago about how crazy the HP wars are becoming.

And that most don't know what to do with that kind of power. I admitted to driving a Z06 for less than 5 minutes simply because I could feel it was too powerful for me.

But more than anything, imho, power is only part of the equation. A car needs to "handle" as well. Brakes, suspension, etc. are equally important.

Case in point:

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/05/...-18-miles.html

[GB-man]

You ain't kidding. About 3000 pounds and 3-400 hp is all I require. I'll never understand the desire for a super high hp rear wheel drive car. Too much time managing the throttle instead of driving the car.

If I see a hellcat on the road, I'm getting as far away from them as possible.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You ain't kidding. About 3000 pounds and 3-400 hp is all I require. I'll never understand the desire for a super high hp rear wheel drive car. Too much time managing the throttle instead of driving the car.

If I see a hellcat on the road, I'm getting as far away from them as possible.

I agree on all accounts. Anything near to 400 I feel is plenty. And then some. With the entire package included, I can understand more than that. Especially for some car nuts. But just raw power. Meh.

And yeah, staying away from the Hellcat if I see it on the road.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You ain't kidding. About 3000 pounds and 3-400 hp is all I require. I'll never understand the desire for a super high hp rear wheel drive car. Too much time managing the throttle instead of driving the car.



If I see a hellcat on the road, I'm getting as far away from them as possible.

And if I see a Demon I am running the other way!!

800+ hp in street tires and a public road. Whoever thinks this is a good idea is unstable.


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[KDS777]

The floating meatball who wrecked this Hellcat would have been a menace to society in a Mini.

Doesn't mean we should stop making incredible automobiles though.

How about a test that you need to pass before you can vote ? After providing ID (like a drivers license.....) and proving citizenship of course. Voting is much more serious and dangerous than driving a car.......and millions more have been killed thru voting.

Of course, for some, one death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is just a statistic, as long as they get their way.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by KDS777

The floating meatball who wrecked this Hellcat would have been a menace to society in a Mini.

Doesn't mean we should stop making incredible automobiles though.

How about a test that you need to pass before you can vote ? After providing ID (like a drivers license.....) and proving citizenship of course. Voting is much more serious and dangerous than driving a car.......and millions more have been killed thru voting.

Of course, for some, one death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is just a statistic, as long as they get their way.

Umm, what?

Edit: never mind. Forget I asked.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by KDS777

The floating meatball who wrecked this Hellcat would have been a menace to society in a Mini.

Doesn't mean we should stop making incredible automobiles though.

How about a test that you need to pass before you can vote ? After providing ID (like a drivers license.....) and proving citizenship of course. Voting is much more serious and dangerous than driving a car.......and millions more have been killed thru voting.

Of course, for some, one death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is just a statistic, as long as they get their way.

A political rant requires a proper response... here's a feel good car for you..

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by KDS777

The floating meatball who wrecked this Hellcat would have been a menace to society in a Mini.

Doesn't mean we should stop making incredible automobiles though.

How about a test that you need to pass before you can vote ? After providing ID (like a drivers license.....) and proving citizenship of course. Voting is much more serious and dangerous than driving a car.......and millions more have been killed thru voting.

Of course, for some, one death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is just a statistic, as long as they get their way.

This was supposed to go somewhere else, yes?

[mailman]

Originally Posted by KDS777

The floating meatball who wrecked this Hellcat would have been a menace to society in a Mini.

Doesn't mean we should stop making incredible automobiles though.

How about a test that you need to pass before you can vote ? After providing ID (like a drivers license.....) and proving citizenship of course. Voting is much more serious and dangerous than driving a car.......and millions more have been killed thru voting.

Of course, for some, one death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is just a statistic, as long as they get their way.

No political talk on TRF. It's all listed in the rules.

[Fleetlord]

Too much is never enough....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuhMOh-14Ck

[KDS777]

You get it.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by KDS777

You get it.

No sir. I don't.

I get your comment about making great automobiles.

I would debate that and say you are referring to a great engine.

I don't get the political twist. That's the part that's got me...

Simply put, it's just not the place for it.

[KDS777]

Close......but it's not a Prius.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by KDS777

Close......but it's not a Prius.

Absorb the love, baby.

[texex91]

It's not the size, it's how you use it...horsepower that is.

But honestly, you're spot on regarding HP being only one part of the equation.

[Rolex addict]

When I raced dirt bikes, the first thing we did was suspension work. For racing through the woods, the stock engines had plenty of power. Dialing in the carb for the specific race fuel was really all you needed. Suspension, however, was the key. We could be riding in South Carolina red clay and pine forests one weekend and Florida sand and palmetto roots the next. Doesn't matter how good the engine is if the machine doesn't handle well.

[Etschell]

1 pound and 10 hp.

[rootbeer7]

I have a 160bhp Abarth 595. The fact that you can use most of its power makes it incredible fun, surprises many larger and more powerful vehicles (especially round corners) and makes me smile every time I drive it.

[c41006]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You ain't kidding. About 3000 pounds and 3-400 hp is all I require. I'll never understand the desire for a super high hp rear wheel drive car. Too much time managing the throttle instead of driving the car.



If I see a hellcat on the road, I'm getting as far away from them as possible.

I'm not so sure 3 hp would be able to move 3000lbs

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

I have a 160bhp Abarth 595. The fact that you can use most of its power makes it incredible fun, surprises many larger and more powerful vehicles (especially round corners) and makes me smile every time I drive it.

I agree with you there

I have a 2016 VW GTI and even though it only has 210 hp, it is loads of fun.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by c41006

I'm not so sure 3 hp would be able to move 3000lbs






I agree with you there

I have a 2016 VW GTI and even though it only has 210 hp, it is loads of fun.

I guess I mean to say my ideal car is a 911 or cayman. I'm a prick who likes Porsches.

[Tri-Tip]

Originally Posted by superdog

We talked not long ago about how crazy the HP wars are becoming.

And that most don't know what to do with that kind of power. I admitted to driving a Z06 for less than 5 minutes simply because I could feel it was too powerful for me.

But more than anything, imho, power is only part of the equation. A car needs to "handle" as well. Brakes, suspension, etc. are equally important.

Case in point:

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/05/...-18-miles.html

I drove a Corvette ZR-1 about 4 years ago. It was a chore to drive due to the power...I wouldn't want to do it on a daily basis.

[Rzani]

Recently I "upgraded" from a manual 911 S to a Turbo S. Why? Because I was seduced by all that power and wanted to feel as much of it that I possibly could. It was the biggest mistake I could have made. I just sold the Turbo the other day.

My point is that I really enjoy driving a manual transmission sports car, but I gave that up for HP (I listened to far too many people who told me that oooh you're going to love the PDK and it's just as much fun blah blah blah....NOPE) only to find out that HP is really just a fleeting, kind of momentary enjoyment.. So, no HP isn't that great and there is more than enough of it in the mid range models of these high end sports cars. If you ask me, there is a HP threshold/enjoyment equation that we long ago surpassed. In the future I'm going to go back to a manual S. Hopefully Porsche keeps making them!

[BristolCavendish]

I'm probably in the minority here but I've always preferred a lower HP car that was nimble and zippy. Back in the 70s some friends and I owned 2002s and we would modify the suspensions with Bilstein sport shocks/lower coil springs and add other components like Alpina short-ratio steering boxes, dual Weber side-drafts and Supersprint headers. By the time we were done, the stock HP was increased from about 100 to around 115. Some went even further adding high-compression pistons and more radical camshafts increasing the HP to around 130. High-end aftermarket sources like Miller and Norburn and Hardy and Beck were our go-to vendors. In those days, The 'M' concept hadn't been conceived and BMWs (e.g. 2002, 2002tii, 3.0CS) were more of a cult-car. Folks would often flash their headlights to greet other BMW drivers and the BMWCC was in full swing. It all seemed to change towards the late 70s with the introduction of the 320i and its subsequent consumer base. The flashing headlights gradually disappeared and with an increasing number of newer and oftentimes rude/reckless BMW owners, other drivers began flashing middle fingers.

Another fun car was the Austin-Cooper S. It was essentially a go-kart and fun to drive but I would never get in one when traveling along the freeway. Like the earlier BMWs, the original 'Mini' had a completely different set of followers compared with today.

As far as maxing out on HP, back in HS this guy bought an old Austin-Healy 'bug-eyed' Sprite and put in a Chevy 327. How he managed to change sparkplugs still eludes me but the outcome was tragic. The car was way too light for that kind of power and along with the natural recklessness and deceptive immortality of youth, he eventually wrapped it around a telephone pole and became a quadriplegic.

To me, younger drivers + mega HP = a bad equation as a sense of maturity and freedom from other distractions become critical safety factors.

[Alexwwjd]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

I'm probably in the minority here but I've always preferred a lower HP car that was nimble and zippy. Back in the 70s some friends and I owned 2002s and we would modify the suspensions with Bilstein sport shocks/lower coil springs and add other components like Alpina short-ratio steering boxes, dual Weber side-drafts and Supersprint headers. By the time we were done, the stock HP was increased from about 100 to around 115. Some went even further adding high-compression pistons and more radical camshafts increasing the HP to around 130. High-end aftermarket sources like Miller and Norburn and Hardy and Beck were our go-to vendors. In those days, The 'M' concept hadn't been conceived and BMWs (e.g. 2002, 2002tii, 3.0CS) were more of a cult-car. Folks would often flash their headlights to greet other BMW drivers and the BMWCC was in full swing. It all seemed to change towards the late 70s with the introduction of the 320i and its subsequent consumer base. The flashing headlights gradually disappeared and with an increasing number of newer and oftentimes rude/reckless BMW owners, other drivers began flashing middle fingers.



Another fun car was the Austin-Cooper S. It was essentially a go-kart and fun to drive but I would never get in one when traveling along the freeway. Like the earlier BMWs, the original 'Mini' had a completely different set of followers compared with today.



As far as maxing out on HP, back in HS this guy bought an old Austin-Healy 'bug-eyed' Sprite and put in a Chevy 327. How he managed to change sparkplugs still eludes me but the outcome was tragic. The car was way too light for that kind of power and along with the natural recklessness and deceptive immortality of youth, he eventually wrapped it around a telephone pole and became a quadriplegic.



To me, younger drivers + mega HP = a bad equation as a sense of maturity and freedom from other distractions become critical safety factors.

You are right Mr. Bristol.


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[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

I'm probably in the minority here but I've always preferred a lower HP car that was nimble and zippy. Back in the 70s some friends and I owned 2002s

The 2002 turbo of the time with 127 kW at laggy 5,800 rpm is kind of scary even today.

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

The 2002 turbo of the time with 127 kW at laggy 5,800 rpm is kind of scary even today.

The Knunle, Kopp and Kaush turbocharged 2002tii was only offered in Europe at the time of its production and probably would have had a strong following in the United States (amongst early BMW enthusiasts) had it been available.

As this particular model came with no front bumper (just an air dam), the DOT probably outlawed it's importation due to safety standards. As I recall, even the twin Solex/side-draft 2002ti model was only available in Europe. Here in the U.S. we simply removed the stock/single downdraft Solex carburetor that came with the car and replaced it with dual sidedraft Webers and a new intake manifold. Worked like a charm and the tachometer got extremely lively.

Though the fuel-injected 2002tii was available in the United States, very few owners attempted to turbocharge theirs.

[1st amg]

Yikes

[Kyle13]

I want to also add in that you should also "know" what you are doing when behind the wheel of a car with that much power. I wanna say a good 70% of the drivers on the road have no clue what to do when the rear end comes out on you in a corner, or you run into understeer. Heck I even know people that brake half way through a corner and I just face palm and stay away from them or don't even bother getting in the car with them! Always go with the the old sang money buys you the car, and not the skills required to drive it. Unless of course you buy an Amg or M car or other high performance line car and attend the school that comes with the car


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[keschete]

It's not the car. It's the driver. I have owned 2 Z 28 Camaros, 2 Corvettes ( hardtop and Z06) and 3 Vipers. 2 of the Vipers had no traction control. 505 Hp and my current car has 640. We as a couple also own a variety of other American muscle that will make your ass pucker on a trip down the drag strip. Neither me or my husband has ever wrecked one of our cars despite thousands of hours of drag strip and track time.

There isn't anything in this world that compares to driving at high speed. But it also takes knowledge and respect for the car you are driving.

[LawMan]

well , to each their own , i will keep mine