Tell Me About Your “Bad Boss” Experience

[Slippy Chips]

If you’ve had one I’d like to hear about how you handled it. I imagine this board has some interesting perspectives and stories.

This is new to me. I’m fortunate enough to have only had amazing managers before. I’m in sales and I’ve done really well for a long time. I’ve moved my way up the food chain. Several promotions. Many special projects. Lots of accolades and recognition etc.

About 10 months ago I got this new manager who snuck in to the company through the back door. She’s never done my job before but that hasn’t stopped her from insisting on doing things the wrong way. We butted heads at first (a lot) but eventually I yielded and did things her way... needless to say our sales numbers dropped. Pressure was applied things have steadily gone sideways. Even today she was doubling-down on her failed strategies.

Then I got my review for last year and it was a complete abomination. The type of review that is hard to explain away in an interview. And yet there was very little substance to it. No real specifics of note and no meaningful suggestions for improvement. She didn’t like my body language one time at a meeting 8 months ago??? Petty things that I was completely unaware of and could have been addressed at the time. The chair was broken and uncomfortable. Had nothing to do with her or the meeting or my motivation. She clearly has it out for me, possibly because I challenged her early on.

Something has to change but I don’t feel like I have any leverage now that I have this sad review hung around my neck.

Anyhow, I have an opportunity to drop way back “down the food chain” to what is essentially an entry level sales position in my industry. I’d be home at night with my 4 kids. Good boss. Maybe a chance to regroup and reset. My company would even keep my pay relatively the same (but the top end would be reduced significantly). But it also might absolutely tank my career. In sales you don’t back down on a challenge. I worked my tail off to get out of that entry level position years ago so going back to it willingly now seems odd.

So do I keep at it here and possibly let my boss sabotage my career OR do I sabotage my own career by going back down and start the climb again?

[MP5]

Time to move to a competitor and leave no word unsaid about her in the exit.

[Slippy Chips]

Originally Posted by MP5

Time to move to a competitor and leave no word unsaid about her in the exit.

That’s not a bad idea and I’m not opposed. I do have a lot of un-vested stock and a lot of vacation time that would make it hard to walk away from. Still, it may be worth it

[s14roller]

If you are valued and you have the stats to back you up, I'd be going above her to pitch to her boss that this is the situation and all the value you have added prior to her coming on board is now at risk because she doesn't get along with you.

I had this situation one time in my career...did this very thing, it was amazing. Hard to be touched when someone she reports to has your back. If it fails, so what, you were thinking about starting over anyway.

[Slippy Chips]

Originally Posted by s14roller

If you are valued and you have the stats to back you up, I'd be going above her to pitch to her boss that this is the situation and all the value you have added prior to her coming on board is now at risk because she doesn't get along with you.

I had this situation one time in my career...did this very thing, it was amazing. Hard to be touched when someone she reports to has your back. If it fails, so what, you were thinking about starting over anyway.

I’m planning on having that very conversation next week. I’m not exactly sure how to go about it or how “real” to be with him. As you suggested it could backfire or it could be great.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Slippy Chips

I’m planning on having that very conversation next week. I’m not exactly sure how to go about it or how “real” to be with him. As you suggested it could backfire or it could be great.

Real is facts and not emotion. Stick to the facts. Facts that is that can be proven. Feelings or opinions mean nothing. They have to be things that actually mean and are important to the company and the person your speaking to. It helps greatly if that person already has doubts about that persons performance as well. This can be tricky because if they already had strong doubts then there would be a good chance they would have done something already. Very tricky going over other people’s head.

Sit down and list what it is your planning on saying. Also determine what your trying to achieve. What’s your end goal. Remember you don’t get to determine this persons fate the person your talking to does. Often it’s best if the conversation is about the state of what is going on and not that you appear to be trying to get someone fired. If the discussion starts going that way it’s best coming from the person your speaking to and not from you.

By all means go over a few different ways this discussion could possibly go and what your various responses might be. In the end run this could either go really really bad or potentially good. Kind of depends but a lot of these factors are outside your control. You are you talking to and what are they like? What do they think about what is taking place prior to you coming in? What have you brought into the conversation that might possibly convince them otherwise?

Remember a difference in philosophy or personality conflicts are not always concrete reasons that someone is doing a poor job. Some people may perscieve certain differently and see downturns as cyclic or happen stance when you see it as being more cause and effect. Substance and facts are extremely important.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Real is facts and not emotion. Stick to the facts. Facts that is that can be proven. Feelings or opinions mean nothing. They have to be things that actually mean and are important to the company and the person your speaking to. It helps greatly if that person already has doubts about that persons performance as well. This can be tricky because if they already had strong doubts then there would be a good chance they would have done something already. Very tricky going over other people’s head.

Sit down and list what it is your planning on saying. Also determine what your trying to achieve. What’s your end goal. Remember you don’t get to determine this persons fate the person your talking to does. Often it’s best if the conversation is about the state of what is going on and not that you appear to be trying to get someone fired. If the discussion starts going that way it’s best coming from the person your speaking to and not from you.

By all means go over a few different ways this discussion could possibly go and what your various responses might be. In the end run this could either go really really bad or potentially good. Kind of depends but a lot of these factors are outside your control. You are you talking to and what are they like? What do they think about what is taking place prior to you coming in? What have you brought into the conversation that might possibly convince them otherwise?

Remember a difference in philosophy or personality conflicts are not always concrete reasons that someone is doing a poor job. Some people may perscieve certain differently and see downturns as cyclic or happen stance when you see it as being more cause and effect. Substance and facts are extremely important.

10000% this.

You cannot discuss emotional topics such as feelings and personality conflicts and hope to get results. They will consider you a "whiner" and it will make matters worse. Especially if you don't fully understand the dynamics between your manager and those above her.

Odds on she is doing something that is against company policy. It could be expense abuse, ethical violations, etc. Nit picky, shitty bosses tend to be up to no good. So in other words, she has a noose around her neck already. You just need to find a way to pull it.

If you plan on staying with the company, collect this information regarding any of her actions that will HURT the company....not you. They don't give any possible consideration for YOU. What is she doing to HURT the company, that will cost them money....in any number of ways.

Report this to HR. Do not go to her boss directly, you just don't know their relationship.....who knows they could be having a "thing"..

HR departments exist for a reason. They are cold, evil and will put so much shit in her world, she might just leave.

Other than that, the other thing is to bail and start over somewhere else..

Good Luck!

[Thatguy]

Originally Posted by Slippy Chips

I’m planning on having that very conversation next week. I’m not exactly sure how to go about it or how “real” to be with him. As you suggested it could backfire or it could be great.

I had that conversation last week. Went to the CEO with my issues as a middle manager came in and made things miserable. Still waiting for outcome. Have a feeling it will be really good or really bad. He seemed receptive but you never know.


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[ajas]

Originally Posted by s14roller

If you are valued and you have the stats to back you up, I'd be going above her to pitch to her boss that this is the situation and all the value you have added prior to her coming on board is now at risk because she doesn't get along with you.

I had this situation one time in my career...did this very thing, it was amazing. Hard to be touched when someone she reports to has your back. If it fails, so what, you were thinking about starting over anyway.

Great advice. Be firm and honest and always have plan B.

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[AzPaul]

Nothing much to offer you but good luck as you move forward.

Having a 'bad boss' is a terrible situation. Either you're miserable trying to wait out her eventual removal, or you find yourself moving on for all the wrong reasons. Either way, no good.

[Slippy Chips]

Originally Posted by AzPaul

Nothing much to offer you but good luck as you move forward.

Having a 'bad boss' is a terrible situation. Either you're miserable trying to wait out her eventual removal, or you find yourself moving on for all the wrong reasons. Either way, no good.

You hit the nail on the head Paul. That is the exact dilemma I feel like I’m having. Eventually she will be gone. It’s just a matter of how much damage she does to the rest of us in the process

[GradyPhilpott]

Life is too short to live and work under such conditions.

It is clear that she has sabotaged your efforts and is using you as a scapegoat to cover her inadeqacies.

It won't work forever, but to her, you are expendable. She probably has your position already filled.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but from my studies of social groups and in my experience, I know that hers is a strategy used by many.

I've seen it done to many and had it done to me, so if you stay, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

The handwriting is on the wall.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Life is too short to live and work under such conditions.

It is clear that she has sabotaged your efforts and is using you as a scapegoat to cover her inadeqacies.

It won't work forever, but to her, you are expendable. She probably has your position already filled.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but from my studies of social groups and in my experience, I know that hers is a strategy used by many.

I've seen it done to many and had it done to me, so if you stay, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

The handwriting is on the wall.

[Laszlo]

She sounds like a horrible beast. Karma will take care of it. You just need to move forward even if it sets you back a little.

[FTX I]

I was lucky to have started my own business early, but I have some not so cool experiences with business partners. They can sometimes uderestimate what you have to put in the table, but time takes care of showing it in a merciless way.

[SDRider]

Get out of there. If the company has pegged their future to this person I would quietly start the search for a better opportunity.

[4vCoupe]

Managers come and go. I wouldn’t step down or leave. I’ve been in the same situation and found that I just needed to focus on what I can control, remain positive and learn what the expected output was from my manager. I made it impossible for my manager to give me negative feedback. I achieved what she wanted and also worked on what I thought was important.

If it is really a situation that you need to get away from and decide to leave the company don’t burn any bridges or “unload “ at the exit interview. You never know when you will work with someone again or try to go back to your old company.


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[swils8610]

I was taught many years ago that employees don’t leave companies...they leave managers.


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[amg55]

Originally Posted by swils8610

I was taught many years ago that employees don’t leave companies...they leave managers.

This is very true!

I think if you go and discuss with her boss, when she finds out it will be hell for you. If you still like the company, I'd find a job sideways and then move back once she's gone. It sounds like her days are numbered anyway. When her numbers are trending downwards, she will be looking to jump ship before getting fired.

[colpol]

I was 12 years with a great company. Then the ‘manager’ from hell came in. Made everyone’s life’s a misery. People started leaving, morale went down hill, pay rises minimal due to poor performance etc. I was pushing 40, my dad had died a few years before of cancer (saw the way that played out) - thought life’s to short & put my notice in to leave the day before I turned 40

The 14 months after leaving were tough as took a beating on a reduced salary but then started a new contract with one of the uk banks on great rate so all worked out in end.

Life’s too short to be miserable but take your time/ look about & see what’s out there.

[Slippy Chips]

Originally Posted by colpol

I was 12 years with a great company. Then the ‘manager’ from hell came in. Made everyone’s life’s a misery. People started leaving, morale went down hill, pay rises minimal due to poor performance etc. I was pushing 40, my dad had died a few years before of cancer (saw the way that played out) - thought life’s to short & put my notice in to leave the day before I turned 40

The 14 months after leaving were tough as took a beating on a reduced salary but then started a new contract with one of the uk banks on great rate so all worked out in end.

Life’s too short to be miserable but take your time/ look about & see what’s out there.

That first part sounds like something I could have written.

Taking my time to look is some good advice. It’s not easy when you’re in the middle of the storm but probably the best.

[joli160]

I once bypassed my (total ass) superior and told the director I was planning to leave because I could do a much better job than my direct superior.
I finally put in my notice and after two weeks I got a call and was offered his position. Worked out well.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Slippy Chips

If you’ve had one I’d like to hear about how you handled it. I imagine this board has some interesting perspectives and stories.

This is new to me. I’m fortunate enough to have only had amazing managers before. I’m in sales and I’ve done really well for a long time. I’ve moved my way up the food chain. Several promotions. Many special projects. Lots of accolades and recognition etc.

About 10 months ago I got this new manager who snuck in to the company through the back door. She’s never done my job before but that hasn’t stopped her from insisting on doing things the wrong way. We butted heads at first (a lot) but eventually I yielded and did things her way... needless to say our sales numbers dropped. Pressure was applied things have steadily gone sideways. Even today she was doubling-down on her failed strategies.

Then I got my review for last year and it was a complete abomination. The type of review that is hard to explain away in an interview. And yet there was very little substance to it. No real specifics of note and no meaningful suggestions for improvement. She didn’t like my body language one time at a meeting 8 months ago??? Petty things that I was completely unaware of and could have been addressed at the time. The chair was broken and uncomfortable. Had nothing to do with her or the meeting or my motivation. She clearly has it out for me, possibly because I challenged her early on.

Something has to change but I don’t feel like I have any leverage now that I have this sad review hung around my neck.

Anyhow, I have an opportunity to drop way back “down the food chain” to what is essentially an entry level sales position in my industry. I’d be home at night with my 4 kids. Good boss. Maybe a chance to regroup and reset. My company would even keep my pay relatively the same (but the top end would be reduced significantly). But it also might absolutely tank my career. In sales you don’t back down on a challenge. I worked my tail off to get out of that entry level position years ago so going back to it willingly now seems odd.

So do I keep at it here and possibly let my boss sabotage my career OR do I sabotage my own career by going back down and start the climb again?

here is what ive learned. it is simply a test. eventually your boss will eat it. now if you dont like it leave. but you'll run into another inept boss down the road unless you are your own boss.

sales is tough. and there are plenty of unqualified hires that occur above you.

[1William]

I worked for good supervisors and managers and bad. In a career you will have both. If she came in through the back door there maybe others that are committed to the decision to make her a manager but if those reasons are not good you may end up with someone further up the food chain covering their rear for a decision to hire and place her. I always relied on my job skills, policies and best practices and while the manager can make it uncomfortable I always ended up prevailing. Documentation is king. Keep a journal of daily events and decisions both by her and you. No messing around at work, do your job and be quite. Don't undermine her, she will take care of that. I would have a private meeting with her and discuss issues and solutions. Many people are not comfortable about being confronted with reason and logic and a willingness to work together. I would record the conversation with my smart phone so you have a record. Many times these managers will blow up, threaten you or worse. Now you have them as long as you are reasonable. Go to HR and complain but don't tell them you have a recording. She will typically deny and as soon as she is on the record for that send them the recording. All BS and a negative. I would not leave, take a lesser job or lose any leave time or benefits. Go forward.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by MP5

Time to move to a competitor and leave no word unsaid about her in the exit.

Originally Posted by Slippy Chips

That’s not a bad idea and I’m not opposed. I do have a lot of un-vested stock and a lot of vacation time that would make it hard to walk away from. Still, it may be worth it

Originally Posted by 4vCoupe

Managers come and go. I wouldn’t step down or leave. I’ve been in the same situation and found that I just needed to focus on what I can control, remain positive and learn what the expected output was from my manager. I made it impossible for my manager to give me negative feedback. I achieved what she wanted and also worked on what I thought was important.

If it is really a situation that you need to get away from and decide to leave the company don’t burn any bridges or “unload “ at the exit interview. You never know when you will work with someone again or try to go back to your old company.
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Careful with the temptation to burn bridges on the way out. Mostly will be received as sour grapes. A good friend did this one time. Found a new job in the same industry. Felt very satisfied about how he left his old company. All good for about 2 years until his old company bought his new company and guess who's there as his new boss again. Well you know the rest.

Originally Posted by s14roller

If you are valued and you have the stats to back you up, I'd be going above her to pitch to her boss that this is the situation and all the value you have added prior to her coming on board is now at risk because she doesn't get along with you.

I had this situation one time in my career...did this very thing, it was amazing. Hard to be touched when someone she reports to has your back. If it fails, so what, you were thinking about starting over anyway.

Originally Posted by Slippy Chips

I’m planning on having that very conversation next week. I’m not exactly sure how to go about it or how “real” to be with him. As you suggested it could backfire or it could be great.

May work in rare situations but odds are against you. Time to put on your "what's likely to happen" hat. Start with how she got the job. Your perception is a "back door" was used. Someone above your pay grade and hers made that decision. She didn't just beam into the job. You can be sure whoever that was has a vested interest in it working. They may not be ready to let that go yet. Not defending it. Just pointing out the obvious.

If you want to stay then start documenting and publishing. If your company has a full throated performance review process including your direct manager, their manager and human resources then you have the foundation to fight back.

Sit down immediately and write a response to your recent appraisal. Identify the specific comments you disagree with and why. Identify areas you find unclear. Ask for specific improvement guidance that matches the company's expectations. Compare your previous performance to today. Point out the change of direction you fell contributed to this decline and why. Cover everything you want to address with management. Keep away from aggressive complaining and focus on asking the company to give you clear guidance for improvement (even if you don't think you need it). Your goal here is to put them on the defensive. Put them in a position of having to clearly explain what you need to do to be successful again.

Now publish this response to your manager and human resources. Ask human resources if your managers boss would normally get a copy of your response. If not then add them to the original copy list.

Wait for them to respond. Make sure any further discussion is documented and published. Their response and by whom will tell you a lot about your future with this company. If nothing else you'll have important documentation in the event of a wrongful dismissal suit. Your lawyer will be very happy you did this.

[Abdullah71601]

What you've described was my last job. I was very successful for six years, was promoted, and received several awards as a top performer. They hired someone with no supervisory experience, much less management experience, to be a senior manager. She didn't know how to manage people, much less managers, and all of her programs began to crash. My peers and I got hammered on performance reviews. We sat down with the executive in charge of our program and were told to shut up and color.

We all now work at other companies and aren't looking back. Your skills sound very portable. If your senior management won't make a change to keep you, take your skills across the street and don't look back.

[returntorolex]

My former boss was stealing money from customers, plus raiding the company piggy bank as his own (he was CEO). Screwed his own brother as well as his mistress who was exec secy.

Motivated me to round up a couple co-workers and start our own shop. A few years after we left, that previous company folded.

Pay attention to the handwriting on the wall.

[JasoninDenver]

Definitely talk to the person above her.

State your desire to move to another position within the company which is not under her supervision.

Be very clear that you love the company and the results you have been able to post in the past.

Raise your concerns against her when asked and be very direct that you will not allow yourself to be treated like that. Ever.

Give them a time frame to get back to you with a resolution, but have a plan based on the assumption that you will be show the door that very day.

Do not worry too much about your future. The fear of the unknown is almost universally worse than the eventual outcome. You have been, and will continue to be succcessful.

Like others posting here, I have seen this situation play out many times. Usually the powers that be come around to removing a bad cog once it becomes clear that they are disrupting the business and losing valued employees because of it. The one time it didn't play out that way was when the bad manager was the owners brother in law.

[brandrea]

I have one word ... WALK.

Nothing is worth the stress and headache of working in an environment as you describe.

Best of luck to you

[datejustrms]

Originally Posted by brandrea

i have one word ... Walk.

Nothing is worth the stress and headache of working in an environment as you describe.

Best of luck to you

x2