Paul Newman Daytona auction

[Tysonoxide]

I recently watched the $18 mil auction video. I was wondering why would a person bid $10mil right at the start (I'm sure insanely rich people don't way to pay alot for an item). Do auctioneers/sellers actually "shill" their items?

[RolexNorth]

There's rumour going around that Rolex SA bought the watch. They would have paid anything to get it back.

[Chewbacca]

$10 hard at the start is an auction strategy.

Didn't work this time.

$10 or $18 who cares. If you can get $10, the next $8 is easy. Plus buyers premium and fees.

[meganfox17]

I thought Aurel Bacs of Philips actually announced that he had a US$ 1 million dollars absentee opening bid for the Paul Newman Daytona. In was the second bid from an Asian client coming in at US$10 million dollar within 1 second after the first that got the crowd all electrified

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by meganfox17

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Aurel Bacs of Philips actually announced that he had a US$ 1 million dollars absentee opening bid for the Paul Newman Daytona. In was the second bid from an Asian client coming in at US$10 million dollar within 1 second after the first that got the crowd all electrified

Possible.

Some were phone.

Some were IM.

Some were in person rep.

Some were text.

Some paddles.

Whoever went $10 went to set the tone.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by meganfox17

I thought Aurel Bacs of Philips actually announced that he had a US$ 1 million dollars absentee opening bid for the Paul Newman Daytona. In was the second bid from an Asian client coming in at US$10 million dollar within 1 second after the first that got the crowd all electrified

Yes, you're right (as usual!).

I read the thinking was that the $10 million bid right away knocked a lot of potential bidders out before they could even get involved.

[Chewbacca]

Remember, if bidding started at $1. That's technically the bid. Even if you say $10, it's still 2 bids with the $1 gone instantly replaced by the $10.

(Splitting hairs)

[brandrea]

They didn’t get my text

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by brandrea

They didn’t get my text

Go away. You got your watch.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Go away. You got your watch.

haha. Congrats btw Brian. Surely A more significant watch than the Paul Newman Daytona. Worth more for sure

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Go away. You got your watch.

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[dhknola]

I thought it was smart as those rooms were full of people who would have spent a couple million, but coming out strong at 10m denied all the small fish a chance to bid it up and moved the bidding directly to the elite participants. Also made it harder for a coterie of dealers to cobble their cash together as the price got even out of that range.

[Pete26]

I suspect Rolex SA bought it. They told Paul Newman's daughter that the Daytona she was given by Paul Newman was priceless and she shouldn't wear it. It will probably end up on display in Rolex HQ as soon as it's serviced.

[digitalcrocodile]

Originally Posted by Pete26

I suspect Rolex SA bought it. They told Paul Newman's daughter that the Daytona she was given by Paul Newman was priceless and she shouldn't wear it. It will probably end up on display in Rolex HQ as soon as it's serviced.

If memory serves my correctly Mr. Newman gave the watch to his daughter's then boyfriend. He had previously asked him for the time and, when they boy answered that "he didn't have a watch", Newman gave him the Daytona saying something to the effect of "now you have one". Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pete26]

Originally Posted by digitalcrocodile

If memory serves my correctly Mr. Newman gave the watch to his daughter's then boyfriend. He had previously asked him for the time and, when they boy answered that "he didn't have a watch", Newman gave him the Daytona saying something to the effect of "now you have one". Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's correct, Joanne Woodward gave him a replacement black dial Daytona which he eventually gave to his daughter. She still has it. The one recently auctioned is the white dial Paul Newman gave to the boyfriend.

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[exador]

Originally Posted by Pete26

I suspect Rolex SA bought it. It will probably end up on display in Rolex HQ as soon as it's serviced.

Would Rolex allow Rolex to service the watch? It would end up with a new dial, hands, bezel, crown, pushers and caseback

[thomaswentworth]

Auction houses have language in their contracts that allow them to shill their auctions. It is a violation of ebay rules and then becomes wire fraud, but for auction houses, it is very standard to place bids on behalf of the seller of a hidden reserve item.

Here is a quote from a website on the practice:"Chandelier Bidding
(aka: Rafter bidding. Off-the-wall bidding. Consecutive bidding. Vendor bid. Consignor Bid.)

A practice where the auctioneer pretends to take a bid from the room in order to encourage bidding, create the appearance of demand, or to push bidding closer to the reserve price.

Chandelier bidding is legal, as long as such bids stop short of the reserve. Auction houses prefer to describe the practice with the blander term “consecutive bidding.” The terms and conditions section of an auction catalogue will typically state that the house may place consecutive bids on behalf of a consignor. Auction houses claim that the practice promotes competitiveness and that if bidders knew the reserve price they would be less inclined to bid beyond it. Critics argue that chandelier bidding is deceptive and distorts the true level of interest for a particular lot.

Former democrat assemblyman Richard Brodsky spent 19 years attempting to ban chandelier bidding. After his ninth bill finally passed through the Assembly in 2007, it was subsequently quashed in the Senate. Republican State Senator John Flanagan also attempted to pass a companion bill in 2007."

[Tysonoxide]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

Auction houses have language in their contracts that allow them to shill their auctions. It is a violation of ebay rules and then becomes wire fraud, but for auction houses, it is very standard to place bids on behalf of the seller of a hidden reserve item.

Here is a quote from a website on the practice:"Chandelier Bidding
(aka: Rafter bidding. Off-the-wall bidding. Consecutive bidding. Vendor bid. Consignor Bid.)

A practice where the auctioneer pretends to take a bid from the room in order to encourage bidding, create the appearance of demand, or to push bidding closer to the reserve price.

Chandelier bidding is legal, as long as such bids stop short of the reserve. Auction houses prefer to describe the practice with the blander term “consecutive bidding.” The terms and conditions section of an auction catalogue will typically state that the house may place consecutive bids on behalf of a consignor. Auction houses claim that the practice promotes competitiveness and that if bidders knew the reserve price they would be less inclined to bid beyond it. Critics argue that chandelier bidding is deceptive and distorts the true level of interest for a particular lot.

Former democrat assemblyman Richard Brodsky spent 19 years attempting to ban chandelier bidding. After his ninth bill finally passed through the Assembly in 2007, it was subsequently quashed in the Senate. Republican State Senator John Flanagan also attempted to pass a companion bill in 2007."

Thank you for the info, I know it's legal but its kinda dirty dont you think?

[digitalcrocodile]

Originally Posted by Tysonoxide

Thank you for the info, I know it's legal but its kinda dirty dont you think?

Well, if you go knowing what you'll pay it's probably not a problem. Smart buyers don't typically succumb to the "winner's curse".

[Chadridv]

btw, don't think there was a link. I'm watching it now. Pretty cool to watch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0tjSUOvi5k

[GB-man]

Aural bacs hinted in a post interview that the watch went to a private individual aka not Rolex.

The 10 out of the gate was a bidding strategy as mentioned above. They figured it was worth over ten million so by starting there they shock some bidders and prevent them from entering the ring.

Forgive me but I don’t think Rolex would feel the need to buy this watch.

[DoctorA]

I’m sure buying an $18 million item goes beyond just a hobby and he’s dead sure he can get $20 million in a year or two!

[77T]

By dropping the $10 million into the second bid, it signaled “serious bidders only” and helped eliminate well-funded emotional tit-for-tat bidding that can lead to a higher final value winning bid.

I know it eventually went for more than that high bid. But had a war erupted in the room (where emotion can be spurred on by a bidding war) then $20-25+ could’ve been the result.


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[Chiboy]

Here’s a few pics from my well-timed trip to L. A. that happened to coincide with a showing the weekend before the auction:






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[Watchflair]

I was at the auction. All of the power houses in the watch world were there. The reason for the jump to $10 million as the second bid is because it eliminated all of the in room bidders and got right to the meat and potatoes so to say. It's worth mentioning that there were only a handful of pre-approved bidders in the room capable of bidding on this watch. The room was electric to say the least. I have no clue who took home the prize but I personally imagine it to be Rolex - eventually they will open a Rolex museum and I would imagine this to be a centerpiece.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

I was at the auction. All of the power houses in the watch world were there. The reason for the jump to $10 million as the second bid is because it eliminated all of the in room bidders and got right to the meat and potatoes so to say. It's worth mentioning that there were only a handful of pre-approved bidders in the room capable of bidding on this watch. The room was electric to say the least. I have no clue who took home the prize but I personally imagine it to be Rolex - eventually they will open a Rolex museum and I would imagine this to be a centerpiece.

I think Rolex did buy it, and then had to shut down a few factories and now we have no supply...

[Watchflair]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think Rolex did buy it, and then had to shut down a few factories and now we have no supply...

Ha Ha I am sure Rolex is more than flush with cash. This isn't a drop in the bucket and they can even write it off for tax purposes as a company advertising expense lol

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

Ha Ha I am sure Rolex is more than flush with cash. This isn't a drop in the bucket and they can even write it off for tax purposes as a company advertising expense lol

Must have been fun to be there, it was great stuff following it here, and that opening bid was pretty smart as it threw everyone off including the auctioneer, who was desperately repeating himself like an amateur, so as to buy others time to formulate bids. I think a slow boil bidding war would have seen it pass 20m easily.

[Amiroo]

I was there too! It was awesome seeing all the Hodinkee people and some of the people in their "Talking Watches" videos in the room (Goldberger was there). An awesome experience!

[Watchflair]

Ha like a Talking Watches reunion - definitely lots of watch folks filled the room. Cool to witness a piece of history.