Solution to counter buyer claiming he received shipping without watch inside?

[Alex21]

Hi TFR,
Today i stumbled on one sad story where buyer didn't get the watch he just purchased :
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=610326

As first-timer seller myself, i thought about this issue and i might have found a solution to counter this type of issue in future.
I just want to validate it with our community and read your feedback first.

The problem : Buyer claims he never got the watch he bought.

Solution : In future, seller will have to video record with his cellphone the whole transaction at shipping carrier. This means seller will have to clearly video tape the box opened showing the watch inside and the shipping employee holding it before packing it for shipping. That way, this will clear seller name in any bad situation regarding shipping. Also, that video could discourage any buyer claiming he never got the watch and steal buyer money and on top of that this video could be a proof of claim to shipping carrier for the lost of the package content and/or for the authority to investigate this issue. So works every way.

What do you guys think?

[joli160]

Won't work, which courier is going to agree with this ?
Sell to a TS for a smooth transaction

[beshannon]

Seller records one box and then ships an identical empty one

[schoolboy]

I don’t have any experience selling something over $500 via shipping....

But I will admit, when I sold my watch last year, this is a dilemma that crossed my mind.

It makes sense to me, but let’s see what some of the more experienced members say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rogrmo]

Originally Posted by Alex21

Hi TFR,
Today i stumbled on one sad story where buyer didn't get the watch he just purchased :
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=610326

As first-timer seller myself, i thought about this issue and i might have found a solution to counter this type of issue in future.
I just want to validate it with our community and read your feedback first.

The problem : Buyer claims he never got the watch he bought.

Solution : In future, seller will have to video record with his cellphone the whole transaction at shipping carrier. This means seller will have to clearly video tape the box opened showing the watch inside and the shipping employee holding it before packing it for shipping. That way, this will clear seller name in any bad situation regarding shipping. Also, that video could discourage any buyer claiming he never got the watch and steal buyer money and on top of that this video could be a proof of claim to shipping carrier for the lost of the package content and/or for the authority to investigate this issue. So works every way.

What do you guys think?

A much easier way is the parcel would have been weighed when posting and logged, also take a picture when the item is on the scale’s, then check the weight on arrival, should be the same weight reading.

[lenfried29]

Originally Posted by Rogrmo

A much easier way is the parcel would have been weighed when posting and logged, also take a picture when the item is on the scale’s, then check the weight on arrival, should be the same weight reading.

Weigh empty box at the time of shipping. Same weight at the time of receiving. Or place fake watch in the box.
No solution here.

[Rogrmo]

Originally Posted by lenfried29

Weigh empty box at the time of shipping. Same weight at the time of receiving. Or place fake watch in the box.
No solution here.

I would only buy from a buyer from the same country, so if like you are saying you receive the parcel and the watch is not inside, and the weight is the same when the parcel had been sent and received, it is clear the watch had not been sent, then this matter becomes a police matter, from the U.K.

[lenfried29]

Originally Posted by Rogrmo

I would only buy from a buyer from the same country, so if like you are saying you receive the parcel and the watch is not inside, and the weight is the same when the parcel had been sent and received, it is clear the watch had not been sent, then this matter becomes a police matter, from the U.K.

I would buy only from AD in the store. This is my solution.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by lenfried29

I would buy only from AD in the store. This is my solution.

As first-time seller, that's my solution as well. meeting buyer at my hometown AD is the best way for both parties to be satisfied. But still some potential buyers trying to buy it through paypal which is not the right solution for me for the reasons i said previously.

[Chiboy]

Not sure if showing shipping company counter worker that you have a $10k (or more) product in your box is such a great idea.

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by chiboy

not sure if showing shipping company counter worker that you have a $10k (or more) product in your box is such a great idea.

x2.

[Alex21]

The idea is to video record the shippiing carrier employee uniform/hands doing the manipulation of the box with watch inside. Simply ask the employee if possible to film this manipulation without showing his face. I don't know..just figure out a way to have at least a proof that seller really shipped the watch.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

Not sure if showing shipping company counter worker that you have a $10k (or more) product in your box is such a great idea.

If employee knows you're video taping it i doubt he will do anything stupid about it. Besides that it is allowed to use your cellphone inside so who cares what app you're using at that specific moment. I'm also willing to tell to employee at the end that i have taped the manipulation as proof for the receiver. (which is also a way to let know the employee i have a proof there how it went there)

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

Not sure if showing shipping company counter worker that you have a $10k (or more) product in your box is such a great idea.

This would be directly against protocol of my insurer when I ship.

I package all watches securely and with care. Ship priority overnight only and drop off at the fedex sort facility attached to the airport as late in the day as possible to minimize risk. I happen to live 10 mins from this facility or I would use a fedex location but still go later in the day.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by GB-man

This would be directly against protocol of my insurer when I ship.

I package all watches securely and with care. Ship priority overnight only and drop off at the fedex sort facility attached to the airport as late in the day as possible to minimize risk. I happen to live 10 mins from this facility or I would use a fedex location but still go later in the day.

This right here. I still video myself putting the watch in the padded envelope, box and other box. My stuff is more secure than FT Knox. Takuya and OCROLEXGUY probably can't stand opening my boxes. I use Gorilla Tape too. Takes me 20-30 minutes to drive Tom FedEx but it's worth it because of security and I usually drop one off and pick one up at the same time.

[singe89]

I give my close watch friends first dibs on any watches I'm letting go. If they pass then I sell to DavidSW. Give my buddies the same price DavidSW offers. I might get a few hundred to a few thousand $ less depending on the watch but there is ZERO hassle and 100% certainty that I'll get my $. Problem solved.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by mailman

This right here. I still video myself putting the watch in the padded envelope, box and other box. My stuff is more secure than FT Knox. Takuya and OCROLEXGUY probably can't stand opening my boxes. I use Gorilla Tape too. Takes me 20-30 minutes to drive Tom FedEx but it's worth it because of security and I usually drop one off and pick one up at the same time.

Note to self if I trade with P have a new razor blade handy

[Chloe&Harley]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

Not sure if showing shipping company counter worker that you have a $10k (or more) product in your box is such a great idea.

This is what I was thinking

[michaelodonnell123]

Any video can be faked. Not a good solution.

[Alex21]

Quote "Weigh empty box at the time of shipping. Same weight at the time of receiving. Or place fake watch in the box.
No solution here. "

hmm..that could be a serious concern. Didn't think about this. Good point. But then, how do you counter buyers claiming to paypal they got a fake watch as opposed to a real watch? How seller can protect himself?
His money can be on hold by paypal and on top of that buyer could get away with real watch and also with recouping his money. How in the world paypal can investigate this when we all know this is not their main activity. Just wondering..

[Carrera911]

Originally Posted by Alex21

Quote But then, how do you counter buyers claiming to paypal they got a fake watch as opposed to a real watch? How seller can protect himself?
His money can be on hold by paypal and on top of that buyer could get away with real watch and also with recouping his money. How in the world paypal can investigate this when we all know this is not their main activity. Just wondering..

Simple solution for this which I advocate all the time: Don't use PayPal or eBay

[korneevy]

If one party is hell bent on deceiving and defrauding the other party on the opposite end of a transaction, none of these things will work. The only (and far from 100% proof) solution is to make sure you "meet" the buyer/seller via facetime or skype for an extended conversation, validate their identify on the screen against copies of their IDs, and do background check on them using public sources, such as matching their shipping address against the ID info and internet search. Most people are not crooks and in majority of cases you'd get a pretty good feel for the other person after doing these things...any shadow of a doubt - bow out and don't get sucked into the "best deal of a lifetime" as this is how the scammers mostly work. I've sold 3-4 watches of a decent value (~$5K-10K mark) via the forums and cross-border (EU to US, Asia to EU etc.) and did all these, plus showed the watches, papers, shipping labels etc. to the buyer via facetime. In all cases it worked without any issue and both parties were happy with the outcome...however, I had had a few - rather obvious - scammers trying to pull a fast one on me, but it really didn't take all that much effort to see this through as these guys mainly do volume work and would hardly bother going through this vetting process. That's just my experience, knock on the wood.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by korneevy

If one party is hell bent on deceiving and defrauding the other party on the opposite end of a transaction, none of these things will work. The only (and far from 100% proof) solution is to make sure you "meet" the buyer/seller via facetime or skype for an extended conversation, validate their identify on the screen against copies of their IDs, and do background check on them using public sources, such as matching their shipping address against the ID info and internet search. Most people are not crooks and in majority of cases you'd get a pretty good feel for the other person after doing these things...any shadow of a doubt - bow out and don't get sucked into the "best deal of a lifetime" as this is how the scammers mostly work. I've sold 3-4 watches of a decent value (~$5K-10K mark) via the forums and cross-border (EU to US, Asia to EU etc.) and did all these, plus showed the watches, papers, shipping labels etc. to the buyer via facetime. In all cases it worked without any issue and both parties were happy with the outcome...however, I had had a few - rather obvious - scammers trying to pull a fast one on me, but it really didn't take all that much effort to see this through as these guys mainly do volume work and would hardly bother going through this vetting process. That's just my experience, knock on the wood.

I like what you said and totally agree with you. That's the reason why i mentioned skype in my ad and the face to face at my AD which is the only best solution for both parties.

[vman]

Just do F2F. Registered mail will also work--that's what you'd use to send your Rolex for service to a RSC.

[Abdullah71601]

Use USPS registered mail. Insure for sale value.

If you go fedex, dont say its a watch. Call it a precision instrument and declare the sale value. Make sure you get third party insurance. And never let anyone at the shipping company know what’s in the box.

Buy the seller works for buyers as well. Be picky who you deal with and dont ship until the wire clears.

[Burlington]

Buy the seller

AND

Vet the buyer

[SDRider]

Before you ship it, video you weighing the box with the watch in it and empty. The shipping company will have an accurate weight reading to back up your claim that the box was not empty.

[Etschell]

solution never sell a watch online.

[MinMay]

recording is good, but at the end of the day, YOU the seller is responsible. That's why seller needs to make sure the watch is insured and make a claim if something goes wrong.

Selling a high value watch can be very stressful. Personally, I wouldn't buy a watch from a newbies. I rather spend the extra to purchase a well known and reputable seller. They accept the responsibility and make sure buyer gets the product.

And don't sell it to a Joe Blower with no references. Make sure buyer is reputable as well. There are other ways a buyer can make a seller's a living hell.

[Alex21]

Thank you for your feedback.
I have today updated my for sale ad. Please tell me if i'm safe with these conditions of sale. Also, what do you think if you put yourself in buyer shoes? I try to offer as much confort and safety for both parties so we can have a smooth transaction.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...riner+116110LN