Building a collection

[assetmanx]

HELLO, I am now new to the forum.

I hope to build a Rolex Collection with newer vintage watches that hopefully will appreciate in value.
Am I off in thinking that a 20 year old watch would be a good place to start? GMT II/Explorer II/Steelgold Submariner for example.

I hope to buy a watch every year. How would you look at this?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

HELLO, I am now new to the forum.

Welcome!

Originally Posted by assetmanx

I hope to build a Rolex Collection with newer vintage watches that hopefully will appreciate in value.

While this probably will happen, if this is your main reason in building a collection you should probably reevaluate.

Originally Posted by assetmanx

Am I off in thinking that a 20 year old watch would be a good place to start? GMT II/Explorer II/Steelgold Submariner for example.

Which one do you prefer the most? If you're looking at 20 years old, give or take, you're right in the 5 digit range. You should look at the references available at that time and find one you like and within your budget for a top example.

Best advice I can give is research, be patient and buy what YOU like.

[ltmgeller]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Welcome!



While this probably will happen, if this is your main reason in building a collection you should probably reevaluate.



Which one do you prefer the most? If you're looking at 20 years old, give or take, you're right in the 5 digit range. You should look at the references available at that time and find one you like and within your budget for a top example.

Best advice I can give is research, be patient and buy what YOU like.

X2 couldn't have said it any better than Sean.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

HELLO, I am now new to the forum.



I hope to build a Rolex Collection with newer vintage watches that hopefully will appreciate in value.

Am I off in thinking that a 20 year old watch would be a good place to start? GMT II/Explorer II/Steelgold Submariner for example.



I hope to buy a watch every year. How would you look at this?

Another suggestion to buy what you want to wear.

Do you actually like the watches you listed? If so, happy pre-owned hunting.

You’ll have lots of oppty in the classifieds here.

[assetmanx]

Thanks for the feedback, all. This is a cool forum.
Of course I like what I listed. Otherwise I wouldn't have listed them ;-)
16710 will be the first. Then I will go for the Explorer II or the Submariner late 90's in steel and gold combo.
The purpose is not to get rich owning these watches but it would be lovely to build a good collection of lovely timepieces that ALSO have the potential for going up in value.

What is your take on a late 90's 16710?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

What is your take on a late 90's 16710?

Do you prefer a Tritium or Luminova dial? Late 90s is right in the transition period.

Great watch, little bit pricey these days though. Expect upwards of 9k for a nice example. Very versatile watch with the 3 different bezel inserts available and choice of oyster or jubilee bracelet.

[SLS]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

What is your take on a late 90's 16710?

Kind of a broad spectrum there. The GMT II 16710 was not a very popular watch then, often selling for nearly 1/3 to 1/2 of MSRP for pre-owned models.
(Fun times for us GMT fans). Many sat in AD’s cases so you many come across several different dials, Tritium (Swiss-T < 25), luminova (Swiss) and super luminova (Swiss Made and probably too early) below the 6:00 marker. You will also have SEL and non-SEL bracelets (the ones that rattle). Find the best example at the best price, good luck.

Also, you will find no lug holes and drilled lugs as well!

[assetmanx]

Yes, it is a lovely and very versatile watch. Even if the bands themselves will set you back quite a bi, the idea of changing between an oyster and a jubilee really excites me.
I had my eyes set on the transition model that only says SWISS between T<25 and SWISS MADE. Any comments on that one? My logic is that it could end up becoming a valuable watch in itself because that dial was only produced around 1999.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

Yes, it is a lovely and very versatile watch. Even if the bands themselves will set you back quite a bi, the idea of changing between an oyster and a jubilee really excites me.
I had my eyes set on the transition model that only says SWISS between T<25 and SWISS MADE. Any comments on that one? My logic is that it could end up becoming a valuable watch in itself because that dial was only produced around 1999.

Yes the change from Tritium to Luminova lume dials started from 1998 with the word Swiss bottom the dial and lasted till 2000 when Swiss Made with superLuminova was introduced bottom of the dial.Will the Swiss only dials become more valuable collectible very doubtful.Same for most all TT Rolex watches not considered as collectible as the SS equivalent.And in general most all SS Rolex watches hold their prices well, but IMHO should not consider them as any sort of investment.

[assetmanx]

You guys are great. Thanks again. I didn't know about the SEL-bracelet.
I have followed Rolex for a long time as a passionate observer. This is my first foray into the wondrous world of it. And I feel like I have to do this right. Drilled lufholes as in fake, or just the variation between two different types of lugs?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

You guys are great. Thanks again. I didn't know about the SEL-bracelet.
I have followed Rolex for a long time as a passionate observer. This is my first foray into the wondrous world of it. And I feel like I have to do this right. Drilled lufholes as in fake, or just the variation between two different types of lugs?

Earlier 16710s came with drilled lugs. Later had no holes case.

[assetmanx]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Earlier 16710s came with drilled lugs. Later had no holes case.

Awesome. Thanks again. What is best? I think there is a charm to the holes. But maybe you guys think otherwise?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

Awesome. Thanks again. What is best? I think there is a charm to the holes. But maybe you guys think otherwise?

Mostly personal preference. I like them because it makes taking the bracelet off so easy. You can use a toothpick. It's a characteristic of the vintage models too.

[assetmanx]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Mostly personal preference. I like them because it makes taking the bracelet off so easy. You can use a toothpick. It's a characteristic of the vintage models too.

... then I'm all for it. I like a watch that is easy to handle and being able to switch bracelets is a plus. A big plus.

1999 is going to be my year I think.
Any ideas on whether to go full package or just sourcing a watch (just body no bracelet)? What is the most clever approach?

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

HELLO, I am now new to the forum.

I hope to build a Rolex Collection with newer vintage watches that hopefully will appreciate in value.
Am I off in thinking that a 20 year old watch would be a good place to start? GMT II/Explorer II/Steelgold Submariner for example.

I hope to buy a watch every year. How would you look at this?

Sure, start with which ever attracts you the most and you can get the best deal on.

[yannis]

Welcome! A GMT is a good start.

[assetmanx]

Originally Posted by yannis

Welcome! A GMT is a good start.

Thanks! Glad that I am not completely nuts with my GMT fascination.

Now, a little bit a bout the different luminance... Is anything better than the other? I like the delicacy of 1999 SWISS only. But should I be aware of anything there?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

Thanks! Glad that I am not completely nuts with my GMT fascination.

Now, a little bit a bout the different luminance... Is anything better than the other? I like the delicacy of 1999 SWISS only. But should I be aware of anything there?

T<25 dials will have essentially no lume left in them now. Swiss and Swiss Made dials use the same type of lume. They just designate a name change for the luminous material from Luminova to Super Luminova.

[strafer_kid]

Originally Posted by yannis

Welcome! A GMT is a good start.

Definitely...16710 or 16700!

[assetmanx]

So I can go for SWISS. Any thoughts on whether this will become a rarer watch in the future since it was only produced for about a year?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

So I can go for SWISS. Any thoughts on whether this will become a rarer watch in the future since it was only produced for about a year?

You never know what could happen to small dial variations in 20 years, but I don't think there will be a premium for Swiss only vs. Swiss Made.

[BakerView]

Not wanting to sound patronizing, but if you're really new at this....
When shopping attempt to get "Full Kit" pieces (box, papers, tags, links, etc).
Know how to spot "polished" watches.
Verify authenticity and correct movement with a reputable watchmaker, or use a trusted seller on TRF.
Decisions in Geneva can have a huge influence over your collection over time.
So, bottom line, make sure you love the pieces you are purchasing.
Happy hunting.

[assetmanx]

Originally Posted by FidalgoBay

Not wanting to sound patronizing, but if you're really new at this....
When shopping attempt to get "Full Kit" pieces (box, papers, tags, links, etc).
Know how to spot "polished" watches.
Verify authenticity and correct movement with a reputable watchmaker, or use a trusted seller on TRF.
Decisions in Geneva can have a huge influence over your collection over time.
So, bottom line, make sure you love the pieces you are purchasing.
Happy hunting.

Your input is much appreciated. I'd rather have one patronizing remark too many, so nothing to worry about.

I am really new here. I am also very meticulous when I do things, so I have of course been reading here and there also on this forum.

Re: "Full-Kit" -- what in your view is the advantage of fulll kit? Full kit clearly is more expensive than the watch by itself. They are in the 9k-14k euro range.
Re: polished watches -- are we talking smoothed out edges and reduced lugs?
Re: decisions in Geneva -- any good examples?

I am sure I will love my 16710 once I find it. Now I just need to find out how high up I need to go.

[BakerView]

[QUOTE=assetmanx;9262535]Your input is much appreciated. I'd rather have one patronizing remark too many, so nothing to worry about.

I am really new here. I am also very meticulous when I do things, so I have of course been reading here and there also on this forum.

Re: "Full-Kit" -- what in your view is the advantage of fulll kit? Full kit clearly is more expensive than the watch by itself. They are in the 9k-14k euro range.
Re: polished watches -- are we talking smoothed out edges and reduced lugs?
Re: decisions in Geneva -- any good examples?

Sorry, I missed the last one. The biggest of these examples would be the result of a watch model being discontinued, and the amount of time it was in production. There are likely many others that reach deeper into the specific history, or technical nature of the watch itself, its manufacturing process, and who is an ambassador for that model, and so on...

Best of luck. It's a wonderful hobby that provides the members on the TRF a lot of pleasure in ownership.

[BakerView]

Originally Posted by FidalgoBay

Not wanting to sound patronizing, but if you're really new at this....
When shopping attempt to get "Full Kit" pieces (box, papers, tags, links, etc).
Know how to spot "polished" watches.
Verify authenticity and correct movement with a reputable watchmaker, or use a trusted seller on TRF.
Decisions in Geneva can have a huge influence over your collection over time.
So, bottom line, make sure you love the pieces you are purchasing.
Happy hunting.

Sean pretty much nailed it. It's personal preference, but as close to "original" as you got it is likely to bring more down the road.

Consider two auction blocks each selling one of Paul Newman's Daytonas. One with box and papers and one without. You see where that's going. And like has been said, the full kits and unaltered and unpolished pieces tend to go a bit faster if offered for sale.

Buy the watches you love man, and hopefully you'll never have to think about an auction block or Forum For-Sale section.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

I hope to buy a watch every year. How would you look at this?

Buy buying what I want to own and wear and not worrying about future value.

[brandrea]

Welcome to the forum, the world is your oyster

[jason10mm]

I'm collecting in around the same era as you, they are just the rolexes that speak to me. Your decision to stick to "Swiss" only dials means non SEL bracelets and lug holes for most models. I see them come up fairly frequently so it isnt a bad self imposed choice for collecting. I also dont think any service dials respect the swiss only so you are sidestepping that possibility (i think).

The "full kit" price premium is really just a personal preference. For the 10%ish extra papers usually commands (more for the gmts as they are high priced right now and sometimes the papers show if it is a true Pepsi) it's a "why not?" decision for me. I can do a lot to a rolex to restore its condition but I cant replace original papers. An extra $500-1000 now sucks but 5 years from now I'm unlikely to miss the money and could probably get more in a sale, though I suspect the papers premium will go down (as a percentage of the asking price) as more folks start keeping them and the ability to fake them gets easier.

Really, no one knows what will constitute "the hotness" 20 years from now. Undoubtedly some neglected, undervalued watch brand or model at this time (Milguass, your time is coming!!! :). Or a feature of a watch, unknown at this time, that will manifest down the road (like a tropical dial, patina, or the perfect bezel fade now). All it takes is the right picture and story to drive a collector frenzy fueled by nostalgia, FOMO, or social cred

[assetmanx]

Originally Posted by jason10mm

The "full kit" price premium is really just a personal preference. For the 10%ish extra papers usually commands (more for the gmts as they are high priced right now

I'm still trying to figure out how this works.

What is the actual value of a full kit vs a watch vs just the head?
Also with a look to the future... Does anybody have a take on this?

What should I be prepared to pay for a ca. 2000 full kit vs a watch vs just the head? I ask because I have spent the past couple of days looking and the prices vary quite a bit.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by assetmanx

I'm still trying to figure out how this works.

What is the actual value of a full kit vs a watch vs just the head.
Also with a look to the future... Does anybody have a take on this?

As a watch gets older the price between watch only and box and papers example seem to increase. There something I like to have, but other people see them as useless. Box and papers examples seem to sell a little quicker too or at least on the watches I've been looking for.

I'd personally never buy a head only unless the price was way below market.