Did Tudor Just Confirm a New Submariner

[904VT]

Not sure what else this could be. Even if not in name, it is the Tudor Sub in spirit. Interesting


https://www.instagram.com/p/ButlDtNDva4/

[Boothroyd]

It does look really thick in that photo. Time will tell.

[DramaTurtle]

Tudor is going to kill Rolex.

[dba]

Originally Posted by DramaTurtle

Tudor is going to kill Rolex.

Not likely.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by DramaTurtle

Tudor is going to kill Rolex.

Rolex is going up to take out AP- let’s face as the original tool watch they can do it by limiting production and perhaps a bit more hand finishing, while Tudor takes Rolex old place.

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Rolex is going up to take out AP- let’s face as the original tool watch they can do it by limiting production and perhaps a bit more hand finishing, while Tudor takes Rolex old place.

Take out AP as in Audemars Piguet?

Rolex isn't playing or trying to be in the haute horology game. They are a mass market luxury watch manufacturer that aims to please the general watch market while upholding a particular standard.

With their marketing, PR, etc. they are certainly doing a great job of it.

In order for them to compete against any of the haute horlogy brands, they would need to re-shape themselves quiet a bit [i.e. introducing grand complications, improving finishing (all elements: case, movement, etc.) and eliminating a significant production number to further grow exclusivity which is generally associated with brands like Patek, AP, etc.]. It's like telling Rolex to reduce themselves to 10% of their current output. They "own" one of the largest market spaces right now... they won't sacrifice that just to join the cache of a different tier.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by 2nastie

Take out AP as in Audemars Piguet?

Rolex isn't playing or trying to be in the haute horology game. They are a mass market luxury watch manufacturer that aims to please the general watch market while upholding a particular standard of luxury.

With their marketing, PR, etc. they are certainly doing a great job of it.

In order for them to compete against any of the haute horlogy brands, they would need to re-shape themselves quiet a bit (i.e. introducing grand complications and eliminating a significant production number to further grow exclusivity which is generally associated with guys like Patek, AP, etc.). It's like telling Rolex to reduce themselves to 10% of their current output. They "own" one of the largest market spaces and categories right now... they won't sacrifice that just to join the cache of a different tier.

I think they are taking aim at the so called “sport watches” that AP and PP puts out (royal oak and nautilus ) Let’s face it the only real sport AP and PP are intended for is for watching sports, while Rolex is for doing sports. While Rolex is mass marketed, their movements are tanks that can take punishment that PP and AP simply can’t. Let’s face it, we as a society have become less formal and more folks wear sport watches and Rolex knows that’s where the money is.

I mean let’s face it I am buy a royal oak and sure has nice hand finishing on the movement, but I have to take it off when I’m playing basketball, tennis, mountain biking where my sub and Daytona does all of those things...so for me, what am I paying for with a nautilus or royal oak.

The royal oak may have started the luxury sport watch movement, Rolex is going to finish it- and judging my the premiums on the gmt and Daytona already have.




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[2nastie]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I think they are taking aim at the so called “sport watches” that AP and PP puts out (royal oak and nautilus ) Let’s face it the only real sport AP and PP are intended for is for watching sports, while Rolex is for doing sports. While Rolex is mass marketed, their movements are tanks that can take punishment that PP and AP simply can’t. Let’s face it, we as a society have become less formal and more folks wear sport watches and Rolex knows that’s where the money is.

I mean let’s face it I am buy a royal oak and sure has nice hand finishing on the movement, but I have to take it off when I’m playing basketball, tennis, mountain biking where my sub and Daytona does all of those things...so for me, what am I paying for with a nautilus or royal oak.

The royal oak may have started the luxury sport watch movement, Rolex is going to finish it- and judging my the premiums on the gmt and Daytona already have.




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There is no denying the functionality of a Rolex piece can probably fit the everyday life style better than a Royal Oak or Patek.

But I think you are confusing function over form.

Just because a particular item is labelled as a "sports watch" doesn't mean it plays in the same game.

As an example you are basically saying the average sport car Mercedes/Porsche dominating their markets and is now competing against Ferrari as Mercedes/Porsche can produce a more suitable sports car for any situation.

This isn't saying one brand is better than the other. They just are not competing in the same category nor do they want to.

The Royal Oak and Nautilus are labelled sports watches but they are certainly not competing with the Rolex Sub, GMT, Daytona, etc and vice-versa. They are not going after the same market segment. If Rolex wants to play that game then they have will have up all those of elements... and if/once they do, they certainly won't be built as the same tank. They'll scratch just as easy as an example.

I own both Rolex and AP. I enjoy them for the roles they fill and the categories they are in. If one or the other alters themselves to compete into different segments, they certainly will not be the same brand anymore for better or worse. I don't think those two want to be in the same segment.

[breitlings]

,,,

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by DramaTurtle

Tudor is going to kill Rolex.

Yep. And I don’t mind.

But they can’t have their own sub-forum.


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[Danny83]

Looks like it. I bet Rolex and Tudor will both release a new Sub

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by Danny83

Looks like it. I bet Rolex and Tudor will both release a new Sub

I hope Rolex leave it alone for one more year. This was going to be my year for an 116610ln.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

I hope Rolex leave it alone for one more year. This was going to be my year for an 116610ln.

Nothing wrong with the current and the 3135. Love mine and the 3135 is bullet proof and super accurate

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Nothing wrong with the current and the 3135. Love mine and the 3135 is bullet proof and super accurate

Great photo! Looks amazing. Yeah I agree and I actually want the 3135 model. Even if a new one is released I think it’ll either be PM or two tone at least. And in any case, the existing model will probably be available for some time yet.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

I hope Rolex leave it alone for one more year. This was going to be my year for an 116610ln.

I think the new sub is just a matter of time, new movement, slimmer lugs, perhaps a color SS option.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I think the new sub is just a matter of time, new movement, slimmer lugs, perhaps a color SS option.

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. Given the vintage styling of many of Tudor's divers, it makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the newer Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. It makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the six-digit Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I am also inclined to buy a Tudor Sub!!!

[904VT]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. Given the vintage styling of many of Tudor's divers, it makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the newer Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

Great point

[Krash]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. Given the vintage styling of many of Tudor's divers, it makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the newer Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

100% agree.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Danny83

Looks like it. I bet Rolex and Tudor will both release a new Sub

Definitely a possibility imo. Especially, if they want to do a paired release again this year, like last year and the GMT Pepsi. If a new Rolex Sub comes out, wait list may top Sky Ds

[dmash]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Definitely a possibility imo. Especially, if they want to do a paired release again this year, like last year and the GMT Pepsi. If a new Rolex Sub comes out, wait list may top Sky Ds

I highly, highly doubt this if it's just a minor revamping of the case and new movement. People aren't going to flip their 116610LNs in droves for such minuscule changes. Not to mention, the supply of Submariners FAR exceeds that of more 'specialty' pieces like SkyD.

Now if they do some limited red text stuff.....things could get crazy. I don't think they're going to take that away from Sea Dweller though.

[ashbaug2]

Originally Posted by dmash

I highly, highly doubt this if it's just a minor revamping of the case and new movement. People aren't going to flip their 116610LNs in droves for such minuscule changes. Not to mention, the supply of Submariners FAR exceeds that of more 'specialty' pieces like SkyD.

Now if they do some limited red text stuff.....things could get crazy. I don't think they're going to take that away from Sea Dweller though.

Totally agree with the part in bold about people not lining up to flip a 116610 to get a 126610 (or whatever they end up calling it...). I think MOST people outside of the forums buy a watch and hold on to it.

As to the underlined part, I have to think that the BLRO is just as easy to make as a sub, now that they've worked through the coloring on the bezel insert, so we should have seen them coming out more frequently. I totally understand that the SkyD is a very complicated piece, in terms of Rolex watchmaking, so there may always be fewer. I think that no matter what, supply will be short, but that's a whole other topic. I do believe, though, that demand for a new Sub will leave demand for Sky Dwellers in the dust...

[dmash]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

Totally agree with the part in bold about people not lining up to flip a 116610 to get a 126610 (or whatever they end up calling it...). I think MOST people outside of the forums buy a watch and hold on to it.

As to the underlined part, I have to think that the BLRO is just as easy to make as a sub, now that they've worked through the coloring on the bezel insert, so we should have seen them coming out more frequently. I totally understand that the SkyD is a very complicated piece, in terms of Rolex watchmaking, so there may always be fewer. I think that no matter what, supply will be short, but that's a whole other topic. I do believe, though, that demand for a new Sub will leave demand for Sky Dwellers in the dust...

and I agree too......from a numerical standpoint. but in the end.....if demand is 30x more for the Sub....and Rolex produces 90x more Submariners than Sky D.....Sky D lists are still going to be around 3x longer (obviously incredibly simplified).

That's the only point I'm making. I stand by that you can get a basic black Submariner within about 1 year from most ADs, even if they release a new one. Heck, a lot ADs, especially if you have a relationship, can get you an 116610LN within weeks (if not already in the back). This is really not a hard piece to acquire, I am in disbelief at people paying $10k for this watch right now.

EDIT: again though, ^all this logic goes out the door if Rolex prints a red font on the dial. People are going to go bonkers.

[lecorsaire]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

Totally agree with the part in bold about people not lining up to flip a 116610 to get a 126610 (or whatever they end up calling it...). I think MOST people outside of the forums buy a watch and hold on to it.

As to the underlined part, I have to think that the BLRO is just as easy to make as a sub, now that they've worked through the coloring on the bezel insert, so we should have seen them coming out more frequently. I totally understand that the SkyD is a very complicated piece, in terms of Rolex watchmaking, so there may always be fewer. I think that no matter what, supply will be short, but that's a whole other topic. I do believe, though, that demand for a new Sub will leave demand for Sky Dwellers in the dust...

No. The reason for the low Sky-Dweller supply compared to the Datejust is not because it’s more complicated. They simply do not want to flood the market with them. It would cannibalize sales of Datejust 41 and possibly the PM Sky-Dwellers as well.

And this doesn’t just apply to Rolex. Patek could make the 5711/5712 in much larger numbers but they deliberately choose not to. For two reasons:
1. They don’t want to be known as a one watch company
2. If the basic steel Nautilus were easy to buy it would damage Patek’s cachet.
They want to sell more annual and perpetual calendars instead of 30k steel watches. That’s where the money is.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by dmash

I highly, highly doubt this if it's just a minor revamping of the case and new movement. People aren't going to flip their 116610LNs in droves for such minuscule changes. Not to mention, the supply of Submariners FAR exceeds that of more 'specialty' pieces like SkyD.

Now if they do some limited red text stuff.....things could get crazy. I don't think they're going to take that away from Sea Dweller though.

I think if Rolex updates it will be something unexpected and to drive interest up the line to TT and PM. I am thinking they will update the Submariner time only version and be the first next gen 3230 given the 3132 in the OP39 now as well.

Perhaps matte dial with a Kermit Green or a Smurf Blue bezel. I could see dial being either black or matching corresponding bezel color. Those watches would be impossible to get imo if they ever came about.

[SPMN]

I really love the teasers. Tudor really understands instagram and how modern marketing works.

That being said, the rehaut looks really tall.

[Solo118]

Wow, certainly looks like a Sub. They definitely will knock it out of the park if they do it right.

[HogwldFLTR]

See the other thread on the subject too.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=652383

[GradyPhilpott]

I don't know if this helps, but here's s blow up.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I don't know if this helps, but here's s blow up.

That was a serrated bezel. I thought it was a big arse crown!


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