Grey sellers and polishing - thoughts?

[Atone]

I’m coming to learn that many (if not all) grey market sellers polish the watches before sales. I don’t think I have ever seen this disclosed in any sales threads and, having bought from a number of them, something I would have like to have known. What are your thoughts on this practice not being made transparent? I never polish my watches, not even at services. Seems like someone taking this liberty to have a watch show better and not disclosing it is quite disappointing but maybe I’m just being idealistic? Clearly I’m naive on this issue as most folks I’ve talked to were fully aware this happens.

[Joearch]

Seems obvious. Look at DSW website and you will see 100 watches, many are preowned yet look like new. How else would that be? Clearly they are polished. Yet the ones I have purchased from him have all left me 100% satisfied, as I imagine is the case with his other customers. Certainly must be the case with other trusted sellers. I guess for those that do not want their preowned watch polished should stay clear of the trusted sellers online.

[jrs146]

I won’t say that I’m 100% sure because I don’t know what actually happens. But like the post above, when you look at pics and all the watches look like new they must have had some work done. My guess is that they’re not heavy polishing the lugs but they’re surely buffing the bracelet and touching up the sides, at least. I guess when you’re selling retail you need to present watches that look like new. And your average retail customer won’t be inspecting chamfers or crowns etc. to identify polishing. They just want their watches looking clean. So yeah, if this would bother you (which it would me, I’d suggest staying clear of the bigger gray dealers who are more retail focused)


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[WatchLurv]

If pre-owned, they should disclose if theyre asked about it. Otherwise it makes sense that a 2014 watch can somehow look in mint condition with no scratches, right?

I bought my 116688 pre-owned and it was in perfect condition, and they told me that they had refurbished it to perfect condition.

If youre buying from a grey and it's new, you can bet that it got bought and put in the coffin or protective case right after.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

If pre-owned, they should disclose if theyre asked about it. Otherwise it makes sense that a 2014 watch can somehow look in mint condition with no scratches, right?

I bought my 116688 pre-owned and it was in perfect condition, and they told me that they had refurbished it to perfect condition.

If youre buying from a grey and it's new, you can bet that it got bought and put in the coffin or protective case right after.

I have asked in the past and the answer has always been, it’s unpolished. Yet it’s 100% mint. I highly doubt that’s possible on a used watch.


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[GMT Freak]

All preowned watches are polished. It just matters if they are overpolished or not and this depends on the individual to decide if it’s acceptable for them or not.

[exador]

Originally Posted by GMT Freak

All preowned watches are polished.

Not the ones that are currently getting flipped within weeks of purchase

[Atone]

Originally Posted by GMT Freak

All preowned watches are polished. It just matters if they are overpolished or not and this depends on the individual to decide if it’s acceptable for them or not.

The question is more about disclosure.

[mjr24]

It's a watch. Be serious.

Would you demand to know how many times a car was waxed and polished before you bought it? Didn't think so.

And, yes, it's the SAME thing.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by mjr24

It's a watch. Be serious.

Would you demand to know how many times a car was waxed and polished before you bought it? Didn't think so.

And, yes, it's the SAME thing.

Be serious. It’s not remotely the same thing. We’re talking about luxury watches here, stuff no one needs, ever. I’m deadly serious.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Atone

Be serious. It’s not remotely the same thing. We’re talking about luxury watches here, stuff no one needs, ever. I’m deadly serious.

Nor does anyone need a Ferrari or Lambo. Again, EXACT same thing. Would you even ask on a used S550 that is selling for $50k? Would you ask on a $10k beater? No.

Someone with a buffer and too abrasive of a compound can RUIN a paint job on a day old car.....meaning not only a $10k re-paint but it would kill the resale value. However, when have you ever heard of that happening to someone? 1 in a million times?

Same with a watch. Sure, you COULD ruin a watch if you are using too abrasive polishing and literally have no clue what you are doing (like, using sandpaper on it.....I mean someone who literally has no brain)....this does not happen hardly ever.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by mjr24

It's a watch. Be serious.

Would you demand to know how many times a car was waxed and polished before you bought it? Didn't think so.

And, yes, it's the SAME thing.

Even RSC will warn you away from unnecessary or premature polishing. I wonder why they would do that?

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Atone

Even RSC will warn you away from unnecessary or premature polishing. I wonder why they would do that?

Yeah, wonder why. Maybe because they would rather have you send it to them for service and pay $800 to have a polish done along with a service? Hmm....yeah, that's why.

Also, there are lots of stories on here about RSC doing a poor polishing job. Not sure if what they think matters here.

Bottom line is all grays do this....they all polish, even if just with a Cape Cod (which can take most all scratches out). Plus, I think most of us pre-owned buyers subconsciously know they do this and are OK with it. Am I going to pay $16,500 for a pre-owned CHNR that is scratched to hell (even if I know a simple polish will make it look 110% new)? No. Not a chance. It deals with the subconscious of the buyer.

However, if the gray does that polish and the pics he posts make it look like it's in new condition, more people will buy that one.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Atone

Even RSC will warn you away from unnecessary or premature polishing. I wonder why they would do that?

As a supporting comment for this discussion this is is extremely problematic.
RSC has demonstrated time and time again that they will polish a watch without the owners consent or request and don’t even go down the road of respecting the elements of a vintage watch.

Yes Preowned watches are polished.
Disclosure is the photographic evidence provided in the FS posting.
If one receives a watch that is not accurately represented in the photographs, they have a gripe.

[Gotgolf52]

Originally Posted by mjr24

It's a watch. Be serious.

Would you demand to know how many times a car was waxed and polished before you bought it? Didn't think so.

And, yes, it's the SAME thing.

A polish/wax car doesn’t take metal or paint away but polishing the watch does take metal away. Beside the question is reseller should be transparency that they have polish the watch to make it near new. Whether people want to buy it or not after their honest answer is up to them. But reseller said no polish but they did polish it make them a liar and maybe they lies more than just polishing.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Gotgolf52

A polish/wax car doesn’t take metal or paint away but polishing the watch does take metal away. Beside the question is reseller should be transparency that they have polish the watch to make it near new. Whether people want to buy it or not after their honest answer is up to them. But reseller said no polish but they did polish it make them a liar and maybe they lies more than just polishing.

Polishing does remove paint.

Waxing, or any surface coating does not.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by mjr24

It's a watch. Be serious.

Would you demand to know how many times a car was waxed and polished before you bought it? Didn't think so.

And, yes, it's the SAME thing.

Exactly. There is a difference from being picky and having a clinical disorder manifest itself into being normal expectations. It’s a piece of jewelry.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Exactly. There is a difference from being picky and having a clinical disorder manifest itself into being normal expectations. It’s a piece of jewelry.

I get the car analogy. But if you were looking at a car and the front end was rounded off and the Mercedes logo as polished down flat to the hood I think people would indeed ask questions.

I know this is an extreme scenario and the OP was more talking about newer watches and touch ups. But I’ve just seen so many watches with terrible polish jobs that I’m very hesitant to have any of mine ever meet a polishing wheel. Even a brillo pad can change the factory grain if not done with skilled hands.

[jimcameron]

Originally Posted by Atone

The question is more about disclosure.

Why not just ask if you are considering a used watch. Or assume that any used watch you might buy from a reseller has at least been CapeCod cloth "polished". For 99% of the second hand watch buyers, they want it polished. Do you think that it devalues the watch, assuming it is done correctly?

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by GMT Freak

All preowned watches are polished. It just matters if they are overpolished or not and this depends on the individual to decide if it’s acceptable for them or not.

This. It always amuses me that people actually think that 4 year old watch they are buying from a dealer is unpolished. They are almost ALL polished. Anything that wasn't purchased 6 months or less ago comes to you polished.

One very respected dealer we all know sends almost every watch they get to LAWW and gets them cleaned up immediately for sale. That is actually a good thing compared to 20-30 years ago when they just starting grinding on them in house.

Every dealer I have done business with, and it is quite a few, have all told me they always have watches touched up.

But dealers are more cognizant of the fact that people want them as unmolested as possible now, hence sending everything to LAWW or just giving them very LIGHT in house touch ups.

That is why this unpolished hysteria amuses me. People took a concept from the vintage collecting community, where 60 year old subs can in fact suffer greatly from decades of overpolishing, and have applied it to all watches even those from 2000 to present. Lugs are thicker now, polishing is usually (not always) much more controlled, and the watches are decades newer and so have usually had one or two touch ups at most if they were born since 2000. It's not a big deal. At all.

Guess what, in 90% of cases if you are buying a watch a few years old it has been touched up no matter what anyone says. And it really doesn't matter with modern Rolex.

If you are a hardcore NO POLISH person, then buy everything new, or deal with other collectors and private sellers imho.

p.s. I just sent my excellent condition Flat 4 Kermit in to RSC for service, and I requested a light polish. One tiny case side ding and swirls on the bracelet. The horror. Heh.

[RyanJ]

As long as the polish is done right, it will look factory. The problem is finding someone to do it right.

[RJRJRJ]

If it doesn't say unpolished, it's probably been polished. And if it says unpolished, it's still probably been polished.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by RJRJRJ

If it doesn't say unpolished, it's probably been polished. And if it says unpolished, it's still probably been polished.

Could not have said it better myself.

[Sandpit]

I can't find the thread but i recall somebody here saying that Rolex refused to honour the warranty on a bezel issue because the watch had been polished (or serviced I think they called it) by a third party.

That would be my biggest concern.

Edit: Here it is. In summary, DSW agreed to pay for the service so fair play to him https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...arranty+polish

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

I can't find the thread but i recall somebody here saying that Rolex refused to honour the warranty on a bezel issue because the watch had been polished (or serviced I think they called it) by a third party.

That would be my biggest concern.

I mean, if the 3rd party damaged the bezel or put it on wrong (which led to whatever broke).....then I would understand. However, again, I'd hope my local AD's watchmaker has put on hundreds of bezels over their time. You have to be the aforementioned "without brains" to attempt to polish something you don't know how to put back together in the first place.

I will say I would never take my watch in to anywhere but an AD to have it polished. I don't even Cape Cod my watch.....even though I'm probably being a bit too cautious there. However, I don't feel I know what I'm doing well enough to risk it.

[Hub6152]

I’m struggling to understand this thread. Grey market dealers don’t polish the watches because they’re brand new and unworn, so don’t need polishing and don’t need declarations!

A preowned and used watch isn’t a grey market watch, that’s a secondhand watch that likely might need a touch up!

They are not the same thing.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by Hub6152

I’m struggling to understand this thread. Grey market dealers don’t polish the watches because they’re brand new and unworn, so don’t need polishing and don’t need declarations!

A preowned and used watch isn’t a grey market watch, that’s a secondhand watch that likely might need a touch up!

They are not the same thing.

You misspelled “I’m being obtuse, overly literal and over-employing semantics”

Fixed it for you.

[Hub6152]

Originally Posted by Atone

You misspelled “I’m being obtuse, overly literal and over-employing semantics”



Fixed it for you.

And you might want to learn what a Grey market watch actually is so that when you post another ill informed and poorly constructed comment it doesn’t get taken so obtusely, semantically and literally!!

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Hub6152

And you might want to learn what a Grey market watch actually is so that when you post another ill informed and poorly constructed comment it doesn’t get taken so obtusely, semantically and literally!!

There are no grey market Rolex watches. The unworn watches available from secondary resellers are all technically pre owned.

These resellers also sell worn watches of various ages, all of which are refinished to some degree to remove wear marks and surface scratches.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by Hub6152

And you might want to learn what a Grey market watch actually is so that when you post another ill informed and poorly constructed comment it doesn’t get taken so obtusely, semantically and literally!!

Someone’s having a bad day. Lol