Help on a Daytona 16520 Patrizzi..

[kay13]

Hi all,
In my inspection period on this Daytona 16520 Patrizzi
I am new at the collecting and I would highly appreciate your opinion and of the expert’s eye.
A beautiful , I think. Any flaws or red flags ? Do you think it is over polished?
Any opinion is appreciated . What do you guys think?


https://imgur.com/LWWFjxv

https://imgur.com/CiAyxJ1

https://imgur.com/7Xrol9m

https://imgur.com/oJukCHS

[daOnlyBG]

Hard pass.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Hard pass.

Might be helpful to elaborate.

If I were seeking a true Patrizzi, I would buy only if I could confirm that the sub-dial patina occurred naturally, which is very difficult to do. I'd also much prefer a full set on this watch, preferably with U.S. paperwork that would specify that it originally came with a black dial.

That said, this example looks pretty good, with a case/bezel that has been polished, but doesn't look too bad. Is it worth $29K? Not to me, but that's a question each potential buyer would need to answer.

[kay13]

Thank you swish77.

[kay13]

Aaron, I am going back to the seller trying to negotiate and purchase the Patrizzi 16520 that I originaly posted , I really like that one and you also thought it was a good example on your first comment but to expensive.
Can you please take another detail look and tell me of any negatives, I really would appreciate it.
Any expert's eye that can help out would be appreciated.

https://imgur.com/LWWFjxv
https://imgur.com/CiAyxJ1
https://imgur.com/7Xrol9m
https://imgur.com/oJukCHS

[hkbufga]

Originally Posted by swish77

Might be helpful to elaborate.

If I were seeking a true Patrizzi, I would buy only if I could confirm that the sub-dial patina occurred naturally, which is very difficult to do. I'd also much prefer a full set on this watch, preferably with U.S. paperwork that would specify that it originally came with a black dial.

That said, this example looks pretty good, with a case/bezel that has been polished, but doesn't look too bad. Is it worth $29K? Not to me, but that's a question each potential buyer would need to answer.

I acquired my 16520 U serial in 97 and has been done a professional complete overhaul (the case is still unpolished) in 2020. The subdials have been changed to humble creamy color gradually. Some oxidation on the dial that proves such patina of patrizzi and oxidation is happening at the same time. This may give you idea about what will be occured naturally and originally.

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[scooba]

Originally Posted by swish77

Might be helpful to elaborate.

If I were seeking a true Patrizzi, I would buy only if I could confirm that the sub-dial patina occurred naturally, which is very difficult to do. I'd also much prefer a full set on this watch, preferably with U.S. paperwork that would specify that it originally came with a black dial.

That said, this example looks pretty good, with a case/bezel that has been polished, but doesn't look too bad. Is it worth $29K? Not to me, but that's a question each potential buyer would need to answer.

I have only ever seen one , I was queuing for a Apple product launch and the guy next too me was wearing a Daytona .I commented on nice watch ,he said it was but after two weeks holiday in South Africa and leaving the watch on a table the sun had changed the sub dial colour , He was pi££Ed this was about 10 yrs ago ,If he has left it alone I bet he is now 😍 , He thought it was caused by either heat or sun shine

[1665fan]

Insert is newer, Boxes and papers? Serial?

[kay13]

Any detail observation of the expert's eye is appreciated.
It is an S serial. Should I get it. almost 29K no Papers.

[77T]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Insert is newer, Boxes and papers? Serial?

Unsure what you mean - a Daytona doesn’t have an insert. Did you mean the bezel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[kay13]

Thank you, I meaant if the Bezel seems roiginal to the watch.

[1665fan]

I’d say it’s worth 30....I expect the inverted 6 will take off in the future. I have an S inverted and it has not started to turn at all...I know S was a changeover year because I have seen more of them with the regular 6 than the inverted 6 dial. Original insert will be hard to find and pricey if you chose to do so

[kay13]

Any idea if this Patrizzi occurred naturally, any sign that it might be fake or forced?
Again any observation of the expert's eye is appreciated.
Thank you all.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by kay13

Any idea if this Patrizzi occurred naturally, any sign that it might be fake or forced?
Again any observation of the expert's eye is appreciated.
Thank you all.

What might be a better question is to ask if anyone has had one from new and watched the sub dials change colour without interference over the years. I will wait with baited breath.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

What might be a better question is to ask if anyone has had one from new and watched the sub dials change colour without interference over the years. I will wait with baited breath.

...... And whatever you do, don't hold your breath.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by springer

...... And whatever you do, don't hold your breath.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

What might be a better question is to ask if anyone has had one from new and watched the sub dials change colour without interference over the years. I will wait with baited breath.

Well, we need to be careful, because the implication here is that the browning on the sub-dials of Patrizzi dials has never occurred naturally, when there are plenty of cases of original owners reporting this phenomenon.

The real question is whether this particular dial has been "helped" to obtain patina. And that's hard to tell. I would never pay a premium for such a 16520 unless I could determine 100 percent it was natural. Otherwise, it would be safer to stick to 16520s that don't have questions about the dial, whether it's a Patrizzi or not.

[77T]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, we need to be careful, because the implication here is that the browning on the sub-dials of Patrizzi dials has never occurred naturally, when there are plenty of cases of original owners reporting this phenomenon.

The real question is whether this particular dial has been "helped" to obtain patina. And that's hard to tell. I would never pay a premium for such a 16520 unless I could determine 100 percent it was natural. Otherwise, it would be safer to stick to 16520s that don't have questions about the dial, whether it's a Patrizzi or not.

I understand your meaning and there is virtually no way to know except in cases where a dial has other obvious “tells” that it had been manipulated.

Because every one of these Patrizzi dials is unique (ranging in color from the palest ivory to deep toast) the unusual colored subdial rings on Zenith Daytona’s can’t be vetted from the front side alone.

IMHO, you’d have to categorize the backside of the dials to document the maker of true Patrizzi’s - many may be unmasked that way - but such an effort is risky, expensive and unlikely to be undertaken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by swish77

Might be helpful to elaborate.

If I were seeking a true Patrizzi, I would buy only if I could confirm that the sub-dial patina occurred naturally, which is very difficult to do. I'd also much prefer a full set on this watch, preferably with U.S. paperwork that would specify that it originally came with a black dial.

That said, this example looks pretty good, with a case/bezel that has been polished, but doesn't look too bad. Is it worth $29K? Not to me, but that's a question each potential buyer would need to answer.

You (and others on here) are questioning whether OP's pics of the Patrizzi dial indicate that the subdials have been aged naturally. That's fair.

The reason I found it obvious to pass on that watch is fairly simple: the fonts on the subdial in OP's post don't match any other Reference 16520, Patrizzi or otherwise. Either this was a one-off or it's a counterfeit- and I think we all know which is more probable.

Hence, the "hard pass."

[athom]

I find the sudbials more greenish than brownish...however 29K w/o paper is for me too expensive for this one...

[1665fan]

Yes bezel is newer and not original, you need to do more homework before spending 30 bills in my book, no offense meant

[kay13]

I have been trying to. I have been looking to find a web site that has the pictures of different Bezels for different production years of the Daytona 16520, but couldn't find any. I only found this site for The Dials, that I hope this site help new collectors with not much experience like me also.

http://www.drsd.com/watch-info/daytona/16520-dials.html

[1665fan]

Look at the words on the bezel...the spacing between the letters is very large distance just like the 116520 bezel....and the same bezel you will get at service....the spacing in the letters should be tight together for an S serial...

[kay13]

Thank You.

[1665fan]

The larger spacing letters first came out to my knowledge in mid A serial numbers and was usually paired with the luminova dial watches.... like the A serial on the drsd site you put up

[swish77]

In addition to the distinctions detailed above, there are subtle differences between all of the bezel types used during the 16520 run. Here's a very useful link I used during my research:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...as-t17026.html

[kay13]

Thanks again, great site for me.

[TMEwatch11]

Good one ...Thanks!!!!

[1665fan]

Unpolished beauty!

[1665fan]

Looks good just needs the 3-4K $ proper bezel....