16610LV Kermit

[venuswilliam]

Hi Guys,

About to make a trade for this piece of M series Kermit without box n papers.

It ticks all the boxes in terms of having maxi dial,fat minutr hands and having a chaptering for a 2008 model.

Is there anything else that you can point out base on this picture?
I just want to be sure its not a franken watch or a black submariner substituted with a kermit bezel.

Cheers all TIA

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Attachment 1102642

[venuswilliam]

side view and clasp angle

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[jaisonline]

Honestly, don’t buy this watch unless complete.

This is one of the few modern watches that should really be bought with the original warranty paper / card.

The model has been known to be Frankenstein’s from regular 16610LN. This is the reason for the big difference in asking prices for 16610Vs with and without the warranty info & tags.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by jaisonline

Honestly, don’t buy this watch unless complete.

This is one of the few modern watches that should really be bought with the original warranty paper / card.

This is totally right. Aamir AIS has one listed now. I think it’s Y serial.



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[iamtotie]

Originally Posted by jaisonline

Honestly, don’t buy this watch unless complete.

This is one of the few modern watches that should really be bought with the original warranty paper / card.

The model has been known to be Frankenstein’s from regular 16610LN. This is the reason for the big difference in asking prices for 16610Vs with and without the warranty info & tags.

i strongly agree with you

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[Kostas]

Without box and papers it very well could be a bits-a no way if knowing visually.

Wether it’s genuine, from the pics you’ve provided it looks good, but I can’t see enough detail like the vertical brushed finish inside the bezel scallops to make 100% determination.

[djgallo]

I agree that buying a Kermit today ...should include buying one with a full set.

If you don’t want to pay the high cost of a watch with full set...I would also agree the next best thing you can do is submit the watch to a RSC and get confirmation from Rolex that it was born a LV. This would be part of the purchase agreement. If the seller wont agree....walk away from the deal.

[rootbeer7]

I disagree somewhat. Firstly, is the seller legit and well known? Secondly, once received take it immediately to RSC. You can request a service and they will immediately identify its true origins. You may even be able to secure a discount to cover the service if it doesn’t come recently serviced.

[jaisonline]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

I disagree somewhat. Firstly, is the seller legit and well known? Secondly, once received take it immediately to RSC. You can request a service and they will immediately identify its true origins. You may even be able to secure a discount to cover the service if it doesn’t come recently serviced.

We have had members buy from respected / trusted online sellers and ran into issues. Who wants to deal with post- sale hassles especially after paying Rolex for their help.

Just buy upfront with papers & save a possible headache w/o wasting time.

[bobabreath]

Looks genuine to me. There are many kermits without papers, I don't think it's worth the premium for a full set. But ask the seller to provide some sort of independent appraisal from a jeweler for some piece of mind.

[Speed]

There is no way to validate what you are asking buy showing us photos of the watch. The bracelet pics do not help either.

You have no idea if someone swapped in a dial and a green bezel insert without papers/matching serial #s.

If you just want a Sub with large plots and a green insert...buy it. If you are wanting a legit Kermit...you have some work ahead of you. Or, buy a full set from a legit dealer.

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by Speed

There is no way to validate what you are asking buy showing us photos of the watch. The bracelet pics do not help either.

You have no idea if someone swapped in a dial and a green bezel insert without papers/matching serial #s.

If you just want a Sub with large plots and a green insert...buy it. If you are wanting a legit Kermit...you have some work ahead of you. Or, buy a full set from a legit dealer.

This.
Dial, hands and insert can be changed and we won’t know, based on photos. I bought a Kermit with no papers from a TS in here. It was a calculated gamble. I trust the guy. I believe in him. And it was genuine.

And yet.... I sent it to RSC Dallas and had it serviced. Later, I sold it via this forum, including with the Service Card as proof of authenticity. I won’t buy another without the papers/card coming with the watch.

If you’re a gambler, go for it. I did. But the uncertainty makes it not worth me doing it again. I like to trade around and I change my mind a lot about my collection a lot.

Happy hunting! That’s the fun part for me. The chase.

[jaisonline]

Exactly ! I have bought many 16710s w/o paperwork but the 16610V is a entire different beast. Can we easily 'created' by someone w/ the correct tools & parts. Plus, it was easier getting parts though folks w/ Rolex parts account years ago. Now, Rolex even took that away from even the most honorable watchmakers.

Originally Posted by bladeshot

this.
dial, hands and insert can be changed and we won’t know, based on photos. I bought a kermit with no papers from a ts in here. It was a calculated gamble. I trust the guy. I believe in him. And it was genuine.

And yet.... I sent it to rsc dallas and had it serviced. Later, i sold it via this forum, including with the service card as proof of authenticity. I won’t buy another without the papers/card coming with the watch.

If you’re a gambler, go for it. I did. But the uncertainty makes it not worth me doing it again. I like to trade around and i change my mind a lot about my collection a lot.

Happy hunting! That’s the fun part for me. The chase.

[jaisonline]

Some people unfortunately learn the hard way. Hey, not my money being spent.

There is ZERO to know if the watch is a true 16610V unless taken to Rolex. They will cross-reference the serial in their DB against what the watch looks like.

Originally Posted by Speed

There is no way to validate what you are asking buy showing us photos of the watch. The bracelet pics do not help either.

You have no idea if someone swapped in a dial and a green bezel insert without papers/matching serial #s.

If you just want a Sub with large plots and a green insert...buy it. If you are wanting a legit Kermit...you have some work ahead of you. Or, buy a full set from a legit dealer.

[faimag]

I agree with everybody else. We all know that punched papers can't be faked...

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by faimag

I agree with everybody else. We all know that punched papers can't be faked...

I see what you did there.

This is actually why I took the extra step of bringing my “flat four” Kermit with punched papers to the NYC RSC for authentication. The peace of mind was worth it.

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by faimag

I agree with everybody else. We all know that punched papers can't be faked...

Well played!
Of course, you do have a point!

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by faimag

I agree with everybody else. We all know that punched papers can't be faked...

Ha! I agree and have said this many times, but in this case it’s different. This model needs to be accompanied by the papers to show its true value, and the papers need to be authentic, just like the watch.
Normally I would say just worry about the watch, but because this particular model has taken on collectible value that far exceeds a regular sub, they are a must.
Kinda like a Tiffany signed dial....without the paperwork, worthless.


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[Tangier11]

You buying to wear and keep? If so who cares about box and papers IMO.. You thinkin about future value in selling it, then yeah find one complete

[RolexNorth]

Can't tell what's inside. Find a watchmaker and ask them to crack it open and confirm.

[Rashid.bk]

Well without papers I’d only buy an LV from a very trusted seller like DSW, Takuya or Bodybump for example. No papers on an LV is a big nogo for me. The set is crucial for me on this reference. Good luck.

[upsidedownbelt]

I wouldn’t touch that reference without papers.

[kieselguhr]

Take this piece of advice from someone who got burned by this very reference.

Papers don’t prove authenticity
External factors don’t prove authenticity

The source matters. Buy from a seller with a reputation to uphold.

[pepsiretail]

Walk

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by pepsiretail

Walk

Congrats on 2000th post!


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[pepsiretail]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

Congrats on 2000th post!


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Thank you!

[justintime1986]

just check with the AD

[jrs146]

As many have stated... without papers it’s really hard to know. Personally, I’d just want the papers. Lots of them out there.

[Sublovin]

I don’t usually care about papers, but for one of these....gotta have em

[MrMercedes]

Never buy a watch without papers!!!!