Will you buy a watch without paper?

[RaZCaL]

Hey guys,
There is a watch on DavidSw that I am eyeing on with no paper. He currently has a promo code so it will bring the discount to about 10% less than another TS who has a 2019 full set.

My question is how much discount does it have to be for you to buy a watch without paper? Will you ever buy a watch without paper? I think it is unlikely I will ever sell the watch, but who knows.

[didikwahyu]

No ...I will not

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[Phooi]

If you aren’t planning to sell, don’t worry about the papers. However, if you think you will sell, papers make a huge difference.

Also, if you’re only 10% apart, you might be talk the other seller to give you a little more to bridge the gap.

Otherwise, keep looking unless it is something that’s impossible to get.

[heath.1967]

No..
except from family or close friends.

[Robf52]

Originally Posted by heath.1967

No..
except from family or close friends.

This. And that ain't gonna happen anyway.

[Maximus84]

I bought my 16570 from a reputable online seller without original papers without issue, at a good price. Actually had it serviced last year at Dallas RSC so I've got 'papers' now anyway.

[MRPWRPATX21]

Originally Posted by Maximus84

I bought my 16570 from a reputable online seller without original papers without issue, at a good price. Actually had it serviced last year at Dallas RSC so I've got 'papers' now anyway.

This is spot on. Depending on the watch, there are sometimes more legitimate ways to prove out a watch's authenticity. I've bought a 16570 with papers and hang tag, and I've bought one without. They are both great watches and I've shown both to my local AD, who confirmed that everything looked great with each one. Both from reputable dealers on here. One has Chinese papers (which could very well be COMPLETELY legitimate, and I'm in no way implying that they aren't)...but which would you trust stateside? The papers from China or a card from the RSC with a warranty attached.

Moreover, with some watches you can get fixated on papers/box & papers/full set/what have you, and miss out on better quality watches at lower prices without all that jazz. If it's a relatively new model, I'd probably expect most materials to be included, but for older models it can swing prices pretty exorbitantly (at least in terms of what sellers THINK they should get).

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Maximus84

I bought my 16570 from a reputable online seller without original papers without issue, at a good price. Actually had it serviced last year at Dallas RSC so I've got 'papers' now anyway.

Originally Posted by Ihatecheese

If I trust the seller and it's past it's 5 yrs old then sure I'll buy without issue.

The original papers mean precisely sod all the day after they were written. It doesn't stop the watch being messed around with. It's a sales tool.
I'd much rather have the most recent service receipt instead of papers many moons old.

Exactly.

[jambos51]

Originally Posted by Maximus84

I bought my 16570 from a reputable online seller without original papers without issue, at a good price. Actually had it serviced last year at Dallas RSC so I've got 'papers' now anyway.

Did exactly the same with my 16570 except not dallas!

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[JayHantz]

I would rather have papers first, and then a box.

[Onikage]

Of course. I want the watch. Not papers. I would expect to pay a bit less however. And they are more difficult to sell without. Unless it's supposed to be a Kermit. Then absolutely not. As there is no way to determine if it isn't just a standard 16610.
The further pre 2000 you go the rarer papers get. This full set thing is a fairly recent phenomenon where people want all the bits of plastic and packaging. It depends what kind of collector you are. If you want to wear your watches and put the other crap in a drawer then do your research on all the nuances of the reference you're interested in and buy the nicest example you can. All the other crap is a bonus nicety. Imo of course.
Apologies if this sounded harsh. There is one important thing. Papers pretty much guarantee that a watch is not stolen. But since you're buying from DavidSW that won't be an issue.

[illiguy]

This.

Originally Posted by Onikage

Of course. I want the watch. Not papers. I would expect to pay a bit less however. And they are more difficult to sell without. Unless it's supposed to be a Kermit. Then absolutely not. As there is no way to determine if it isn't just a standard 16610.
The further pre 2000 you go the rarer papers get. This full set thing is a fairly recent phenomenon where people want all the bits of plastic and packaging. It depends what kind of collector you are. If you want to wear your watches and put the other crap in a drawer then do your research on all the nuances of the reference you're interested in and buy the nicest example you can. All the other crap is a bonus nicety. Imo of course.
Apologies if this sounded harsh. There is one important thing. Papers pretty much guarantee that a watch is not stolen. But since you're buying from DavidSW that won't be an issue.

[TswaneNguni]

No

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by Onikage

Of course. I want the watch. Not papers. I would expect to pay a bit less however. And they are more difficult to sell without. Unless it's supposed to be a Kermit. Then absolutely not. As there is no way to determine if it isn't just a standard 16610.
The further pre 2000 you go the rarer papers get. This full set thing is a fairly recent phenomenon where people want all the bits of plastic and packaging. It depends what kind of collector you are. If you want to wear your watches and put the other crap in a drawer then do your research on all the nuances of the reference you're interested in and buy the nicest example you can. All the other crap is a bonus nicety. Imo of course.
Apologies if this sounded harsh. There is one important thing. Papers pretty much guarantee that a watch is not stolen. But since you're buying from DavidSW that won't be an issue.

Agree with everything - except the Kermit - a standard 16610 with a green Bezel will not resemble a kermit - remember - it also had the Maxi-dial which made it unique.

but buying watch without papers - if it was a watch I wanted - and a killer price, and a trusted seller - for sure - you may lose on the resale, but you win on the buy...

You can live a horrible tortured life if you focus more on your losses than your gains...

this hobby is meant to generate joy, not stress.

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

Agree with everything - except the Kermit - a standard 16610 with a green Bezel will not resemble a kermit - remember - it also had the Maxi-dial which made it unique.

Well aware of that. Don't forget the Yacht-Master sword hand. I wouldn't mention it if it wasn't a concern. There are standard 16610s out there that have all the LV bits. Best of luck if you bought one going off the maxi dial.

[M. Smith]

Amazingly enough it’s above market price, but it’s one I’ve always wanted. Can’t wait to get it!!!

[cvo]

No thanks

[Piguette]

Not really, but depends though.

[996marty]

If the watch is a keeper don’t get too worried about the lack of paper’s as others have stated get it serviced at some point and you’ll get service paper’s

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by 996marty

If the watch is a keeper don’t get too worried about the lack of paper’s as others have stated get it serviced at some point and you’ll get service paper’s

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[Gerardus]

I don't even buy them without the hangtag(s) ;) There is still a lot of fish in the sea.....

[Verdi]

As I buy a lot of vintage....papers are often lost. The condition of the watch is the main criteria.

When it comes to modern watches I would prefer to have the card but it depends who Im buying from, what is the price and, of course, the condition!

[Ihatecheese]

If I trust the seller and it's past it's 5 yrs old then sure I'll buy without issue.

The original papers mean precisely sod all the day after they were written. It doesn't stop the watch being messed around with. It's a sales tool.
I'd much rather have the most recent service receipt instead of papers many moons old.

[iTreelex]

Any watch besides a Rolex I will lean more on having papers. Granted a Rolex less than 5 years old would would be suspect of not having papers.

[padi56]

Papers Papers Papers well in the real world all they are is in most cases a outdated warranty.

[heljestrand]

I would feel most comfortable buying with full box and papers from a TS but I do see the value in a discount that is proper for such and the ability to get the wristwatch authenticated followed by a proper service at RSC then receiving service papers establishing things proper going forward.

[Henrimontgomery]

The papers and box are nice to have, but many models around don't have them, yet are in excellent state. It's all about buying the seller.

Consider the following: I bought my 17013 from a guy who had no paper and no original box, yet I did acquire it because it was in excellent condition. He also told me his watchmaker had the circuit board replaced, complete with pictures of the caliber.

I chose to believe him, because we had lengthy conversations and he inspired me to trust him. Was I wrong ? I don't know, but my watch has zero issue despite being 30 years old, runs perfectly and was a bargain considering market prices.

Sometimes you have to make a call.

On the other hand, when I was looking for 16710, a seller had a nice model, sharp, pepsi. I noticed blue lume on the hour + minute hands, and green lume on the dial. After pointing this out to him, he told me it was service but original pieces. He then removed the picture from the classified, meaning new buyers won't know unless they ask.
The watch has papers, RSC card from this year, and boxe. Yet reading the reviews, I saw somebody saying the box received wasn't the one from the pictures.

On one hand you have a passionate guy who just doesn't have papers, on the other you have a dishonest chrono24 seller with everything you could want. I didn't do business with the shady guy, because honestly I don't want to make him richer, and I don't trust him even if he had the pope vouching for him.

Now I face a similar decision. I am interested in a very nice OysterQuartz, but it doesn't come with papers, and has no service history beside "our watchmaker has serviced it". From here, I trust my judgment and talk to the seller. If he's being shady, dodges questions, and just appear to have bad character, well I won't buy. If I perceive him as honest, I will probably get the watch. It's all about balance I think. Papers are nice, but you are making a deal, and you should do it with someone you trust (as far as trusting someone online goes).

[MrMercedes]

NEVER!!!Why should I?!

[MagPI]

Originally Posted by MrMercedes

NEVER!!!Why should I?!

Because once the warranty has expired, the “paper” is useless.

[faimag]

Originally Posted by MagPI

Because once the warranty has expired, the “paper” is useless.

Well, the value of having the original papers goes way beyond the warranty.