Oil vs electric....an interesting article

[Blansky]

Please don't get political, but this could be an interesting preview of post a Covid world.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ign=pockethits

[MILGAUSS88]

I think the author wrote the obit for oil a little to early.
I would be willing to bet there will be a boom in oil use after the vaccine is distributed.

[Laszlo]

Do you guys remember peak oil. The frenzy and fear, the insane speculation. Wasn’t that about 10-years ago?

[Paul7]

The only oil shortage will be man made.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

Do you guys remember peak oil. The frenzy and fear, the insane speculation. Wasn’t that about 10-years ago?

Yep I wrote a paper on it in undergrad for some bs class. I think it was around 2007 or thereabouts.

[brandrea]

We’ve got about 170 billion barrels to sell you if we could get some pipe laid

Sorry, that wasn’t meant to be political, just stating the obvious

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by brandrea

We’ve got about 170 billion barrels to sell you if we could get some pipe laid

Sorry, that wasn’t meant to be political, just stating the obvious

indeed

[superdog]

Originally Posted by brandrea

We’ve got about 170 billion barrels to sell you if we could get some pipe laid

Sorry, that wasn’t meant to be political, just stating the obvious

I thought it was a decent joke.

[bondtoys]

I have 2 EVs and absolutely love them - particularly the Mini SE!

Thinking about selling the Porsche....

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

I have 2 EVs and absolutely love them - particularly the Mini SE!

Thinking about selling the Porsche....

I am on my second consecutive hybrid, but my next car will be EV.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I am on my second consecutive hybrid, but my next car will be EV.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the at Danny83 is going to get me a deal around 70% off of MSRP on a top of the line Luxury EV. Maybe 75

[Danny83]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Oh, and I forgot to mention the at Danny83 is going to get me a deal around 70% off of MSRP on a top of the line Luxury EV. Maybe 75

Hotwheels or Matchbox ? !

[mrricks]

Someone please tell me where the electricity for these EVs comes from. Half of the electricity in the US still comes from coal. Natural gas is quickly replacing coal but it’s still a fossil fuel. It would probably be more efficient to power vehicles with natgas directly rather than convert natgas to electricity.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by mrricks

Someone please tell me where the electricity for these EVs comes from. Half of the electricity in the US still comes from coal. Natural gas is quickly replacing coal but it’s still a fossil fuel. It would probably be more efficient to power vehicles with natgas directly rather than convert natgas to electricity.

From the Solar panels on my house roof.
Alternatively, my country is giving nightly produced wind power away for free because we can‘t store it. Would be great, if we all would charge our EVs over night for that.

For sure it doesn‘t make sense burning fuel and gas to produce electricity for EVs or even worse nuke.
Just shows that we must change the way how we produce the energy that we are using.

[SPMN]

Originally Posted by mrricks

Someone please tell me where the electricity for these EVs comes from. Half of the electricity in the US still comes from coal. Natural gas is quickly replacing coal but it’s still a fossil fuel. It would probably be more efficient to power vehicles with natgas directly rather than convert natgas to electricity.

The article addresses that by noting solar power is now the cheapest form of new energy capacity for most of the world. Solar cells have been getting progressively more and more efficient while economies of scale keep driving the price lower and lower. Add in things like Tesla's new solar shingles, and wider adoption of solar arrays that are motorized to follow the sun's track through the sky, and it's clear that much of the world will be able to meet their power needs that way. I look forward to the day where most new construction is able to be built off-grid. It doesn't seem like it's that far in the future anymore.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by SPMN

The article addresses that by noting solar power is now the cheapest form of new energy capacity for most of the world. Solar cells have been getting progressively more and more efficient while economies of scale keep driving the price lower and lower. Add in things like Tesla's new solar shingles, and wider adoption of solar arrays that are motorized to follow the sun's track through the sky, and it's clear that much of the world will be able to meet their power needs that way. I look forward to the day where most new construction is able to be built off-grid. It doesn't seem like it's that far in the future anymore.

Living in California, I'm surprised they 20 years ago they didn't make every new construction have solar. Minimal cost to the cost of a new home.

[twitch54]

Originally Posted by mrricks

Someone please tell me where the electricity for these EVs comes from. Half of the electricity in the US still comes from coal. Natural gas is quickly replacing coal but it’s still a fossil fuel. It would probably be more efficient to power vehicles with natgas directly rather than convert natgas to electricity.

not quite, coal currently generates just over 30%, basically even with natural gas

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by twitch54

not quite, coal currently generates just over 30%, basically even with natural gas

It's actually state dependent. Mine is 66% when last reported. Which is down substantially from 5 years prior.

https://www.eia.gov/state/

[twitch54]

Originally Posted by CamSLC

It's actually state dependent. Mine is 66% when last reported. Which is down substantially from 5 years prior.

https://www.eia.gov/state/

OK fine, but since you listed your location as 'USA' my numbers relate to that ....

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by mrricks

Someone please tell me where the electricity for these EVs comes from. Half of the electricity in the US still comes from coal. Natural gas is quickly replacing coal but it’s still a fossil fuel. It would probably be more efficient to power vehicles with natgas directly rather than convert natgas to electricity.

I think your percentages are incorrect. In 2019 Coal accounted for 23.4% of US electric production.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

And given the 2020 closures, that percentage has likely declined further.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...unced-in-2020/

Stay Safe.

[Dyim]

I am thinking of holding onto some of my ICE cars because they could be a dying breed. I truly enjoy the sound, feel, and even smell of ICE.

But I think North America will be slow to phase out ICE compared to Europe for a multitude of reasons.

[DLRIDES]

The future of EV’s is bright, but they’re being rushed into the marketplace without appropriate infrastructure for a large geographical country like the US. The industry/buyers/owners seem to be promoting mass amounts of orgasmic jibberish without a basis for real world operation, “symbolism over substance” or “intentions matter more than results”, pick one.

Just imagine, ........... for the masses to travel any notable distance in an EV, every place there is currently a gas station, there needs to be a charging station .......... a two point charge station at the library in Rawlins Wyoming won’t work, nor will a six point Tesla charge station in Lima Montana !


) 500 mile range and 15 minute charge
) Sufficient charge stations
) Mining/environmental capacity (very toxic materials for battery production)
) Battery/environmental recycling capacity (extremely difficult to recycle currently)
) EV taxing system to replace gas taxes
) Additional energy production. There is currently only three ways to produce electricity on a large scale .............. fossil fuels, hydro, or nuclear. We’re not going to be building additional dams or nuclear stations, so what’s remaining ?

When the above is accomplished, the US will be ready for mass EV transportation. Many industry analysts are saying the current EV growth will retract due to the above items, and we are decades away here in the US.

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

The future of EV’s is bright, but they’re being rushed into the marketplace without appropriate infrastructure for a large geographical country like the US.

You're completely right. I have never had an EV, but ordered one for delivery in 21'. I'm considering hanging onto my ICE Tacoma for road trips. I dont like the idea of keeping two cars, but I also don't like the idea of stopping for 45 min on a 4 hour drive


Been using https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to plan longer routes that the EV would do regularly.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

The future of EV’s is bright, but they’re being rushed into the marketplace without appropriate infrastructure for a large geographical country like the US. The industry/buyers/owners seem to be promoting mass amounts of orgasmic jibberish without a basis for real world operation, “symbolism over substance” or “intentions matter more than results”, pick one.

Just imagine, ........... for the masses to travel any notable distance in an EV, every place there is currently a gas station, there needs to be a charging station .......... a two point charge station at the library in Rawlins Wyoming won’t work, nor will a six point Tesla charge station in Lima Montana !


) 500 mile range and 15 minute charge
) Sufficient charge stations
) Mining/environmental capacity (very toxic materials for battery production)
) Battery/environmental recycling capacity (extremely difficult to recycle currently)
) EV taxing system to replace gas taxes
) Additional energy production. There is currently only three ways to produce electricity on a large scale .............. fossil fuels, hydro, or nuclear. We’re not going to be building additional dams or nuclear stations, so what’s remaining ?

When the above is accomplished, the US will be ready for mass EV transportation. Many industry analysts are saying the current EV growth will retract due to the above items, and we are decades away here in the US.

Agreed. To unilaterally believe driving a EV is akin to saving the environment without considering the infrastructure requirement and cost is unrealistic and unsustainable.

Currently the most cost-efficient and clean way of generating electricity in large scale is nuclear power; this would appear to be true in the foreseeable future. As of today, globally there are 440 nuclear reactors in service, 50 new reactors being built, and 30 countries planning to activate nuclear power.

[Mountains]

I suspect oil still has a fairly strong future. It will become cheaper to extract with technology and I’m sure the ingenuity of man will work out how to reduce the co2 pollution.

Batteries also use rare metals which are difficult to extract without causing environmental damage. EVs certainly aren’t the environmental wonders they’re marketed as!

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Mountains

Batteries also use rare metals which are difficult to extract without causing environmental damage. EVs certainly aren’t the environmental wonders they’re marketed as!

Those are arguments from many years ago.
Future of car batteries looks much different and the CO2 burden from battery production are compensated after 10-20000 miles.

[Blansky]

I posted recently about thermal power and this link is an interesting concept but I'm not sure either what is going to take up the slack until some of these technologies are developed further.

Bottom line though, we need to get off fossil fuels.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/h...nge-everything

[brandrea]

There’s some interesting hydrogen technology for automobiles being developed too

[Chester01]

I drive diesel and get 40mpg and that’s just around town and close to 50mpg highway. The hybrid vehicles get maybe that and some less, but what’s the difference between filling up at the gas station or taking electric from Your house, which they in turn get from petroleum or other fossil fuels?

[SPMN]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I drive diesel and get 40mpg and that’s just around town and close to 50mpg highway. The hybrid vehicles get maybe that and some less, but what’s the difference between filling up at the gas station or taking electric from Your house, which they in turn get from petroleum or other fossil fuels?

Because alternatives to fossil fuels exist. Nuclear, wind, solar. This article, and many others, point out that solar is now the least expensive way to produce new energy. I'm sure coal and gas will exist in some form for a very long time, but they're on the way out, relatively speaking.

Even Cadillac plans to offer only EV vehicles by 2030.