Solid Gold Rolex 1601. Am I getting lucky?

[JasonBetts]

Background:

My long-time trusted independent watchmaker / part time dealer called last week and offered me a gorgeous solid gold 1601 grey/copperish dial with 5.24 million serial.

The watchmaker did a complete overhaul and guaranteed the movement is all original. He asked for USD2500 which was dirt cheap because he believed the case is not original and dial has been 'touched up'.

I have never bought a knockoff and never will but honestly I fell in love with the dial color. So I thought what the heck it's cheap and worst come to worst I got a freshly overhauled movement and a gorgeous dial I can swap for my other 1601s.

Last week I went to one of my regular watch dealer, one of the largest, most experienced and longest established shop in town with 25+ years dealing in vintage Rolex.

I asked his opinion about my newly-acquired gold 1601 and to my surprise, apart from polished case and cleaned lumes, he liked it and said everything's OK.

Now I'm torn on the status of this watch.

The watchmaker (the one who sold me this piece) is a seasoned technician and has stripped the watch to overhaul it. He believed the case was not good but the movement and dial were original but the dial was touched.

The Rolex dealer is a respectable and seasoned dealer with long experience in buying and selling vintage pieces. He has a much more 'flying hours' in dealing with trading watches than the watchmaker.

Both are good friends of mine and I trust them both.

To settle this, I'm calling TRFers who may have this reference or ever handled one to voice your opinions.

I tried to take as detailed photos as possible but apologize if they're not good enough.











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[JasonBetts]

More photos












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[JasonBetts]

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[Nickn]

Why would he think the case wasn’t original???
And die pan dials are plentiful
Lovely watch you got a bargain enjoy

[JasonBetts]

He said the serial number stamp is not aligned especially the '5' and '23'. He also believed that all gold 1601 was more often knocked off compared to steel 1601 due to big price disparity back in the days.





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[harry in montreal]

Do you have any photos of the inner caseback ? I question that it’s a no-hole case. I wonder if this is correct for the serial range. I would also try to magnify the stamps on the lugs. The bezel would likely be a newer mod though.

[330ci]

As stated the no holes case is ???. Likely as described, still a good price

[JasonBetts]

The watchmaker didn't mention about the no hole case but he did mention the caseback and crown are genuine tho. Only the case is suspicious according to him


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[Toronto Soup King]

If fake they did a heckuva job. Nice watch

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Toronto Soup King

If fake they did a heckuva job. Nice watch

And to top it off, it's a real 18k gold according to my jeweller


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[L.K Johnson]

My serial number on my 1601/8 is positioned in another place:

[Kingface66]

OP, Here’s. 5.2 serial gold with no holes case. And the serial engraving is low and a little wonky, like yours

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...-bracelet-9383

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

OP, Here’s. 5.2 serial gold with no holes case. And the aerial engraving is low and a little wonky, like yours

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...-bracelet-9383

Thanks Kingface. It's same wonky but font looks different tho I'm wondering


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[koryong]

If I’m not mistaken, all Rolex precious metal references even the vintage ones, have no holes cases.

Gorgeous watch, by the way. Congrats !

[rmurphy]

It looks damn good to me ..... I’d be willing to give you $2505 bucks for it right now.


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[Rafabond]

I see everything correct, I do not think there is anything strange about this watch.

[crowncollection]

Looks good, all 1601 cases have no holes


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[carwashchris]

$2510. LOL you got a great deal. Love it

[rootbeer7]

There were apparently very good fake cases in gold of both DayDate and Datejust in the made in the 80s in the Far East. Perhaps an RSC can help starting with uncovering whether that serial number is genuine.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

There were apparently very good fake cases in gold of both DayDate and Datejust in the made in the 80s in the Far East. Perhaps an RSC can help starting with uncovering whether that serial number is genuine.

Exactly what my watchmaker said. I have a bit of knowledge in collecting vintage Rolex as I've bought some and never have I found a fake this good, even under my 10, 20, 30x loupe. And it's a genuine 18k gold.

But my experience dealer examined it with a loupe (without opening the caseback tho) said it's good.

Anyho, if it's fake, I'm still OK as I love the dial.

Amazing quality and efforts they made back in the days, so be very aware when buying a gold vintage DJ and DD


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[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

Exactly what my watchmaker said. I have a bit of knowledge in collecting vintage Rolex as I've bought some and never have I found a fake this good, even under my 10, 20, 30x loupe. And it's a genuine 18k gold.

But my experience dealer examined it with a loupe (without opening the caseback tho) said it's good.

Anyho, if it's fake, I'm still OK as I love the dial.

Amazing quality and efforts they made back in the days, so be very aware when buying a gold vintage DJ and DD


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Try and contact RSC, hopefully the dealer is correct.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

Try and contact RSC, hopefully the dealer is correct.

Yeah I might. But from where I come from, the RSC here doesn't offer much help unless we do a full service, which I'm not inclined to do as the movement was fully overhauled by my watchmaker.


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[koryong]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

Yeah I might. But from where I come from, the RSC here doesn't offer much help unless we do a full service, which I'm not inclined to do as the movement was fully overhauled by my watchmaker.


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Ask them to just quote for a full service or new crystal replacement. If the watch is fake, they will refuse to quote. If it’s genuine, they will quote but you’re not obligated to proceed with the service. You may have to leave your watch with them for a few weeks, as that’s how long most RSCs in south east Asia take to quote nowadays.

[interestedwatcher]

The serial was done using a special tool - it was very hard to get the same result each time, and a lot of variation is seen in specific serial ranges - and in fact if everything was perfect and looked stamped, that would be wrong. The vertical brushing over the serial looks good, and the serial font looks okay. The movement alone is worth almost as much as you paid, you did really well. Would be interested in the outcome, but I'd bet the case is genuine.

Edit - I remembered the tools name - pantograph. Here is an example of some 100 percent genuine wonkyness - https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ght=pantograph

[zapokee]

A lot of serial numbers were wonky back in the day. That's no evidence of anything.

Looks like someone has removed the lume pips from the dial - you can see the slight remnants of one at 11 o'clock. I'm guessing a couple fell off and whoeverer it was decided to just remove them all rather than reluming.

I'm not seeing anything that raises red flags.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Looks like someone has removed the lume pips from the dial - you can see the slight remnants of one at 11 o'clock. I'm guessing a couple fell off and whoeverer it was decided to just remove them all rather than reluming.

I'm not seeing anything that raises red flags.

Precisely. Under the loupe we can see remnants of lumes all over the hour markers.


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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

Would be interested in the outcome, but I'd bet the case is genuine.

Made sense. Thanks for the link. That's what my vintage dealer thought too. He said he'd seen worst stamp on original vintage rolex with proper paperwork and provenance hence he thought it may be legit.


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[Nickn]

Just enjoy it

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Nickn

Just enjoy it

Good point but it's itchy to know if it's genuine or fake. You know what I mean.

Maybe I'll try to get a service quote from RSC as Koryong suggested.


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[tirefryer]

beautiful watch! wouldn't mind finding one like this for daily use. enjoy it in good health.