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4 October 2022, 11:13 PM | #1 |
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When is the serial number engraved to case?
Hello fellow watch geeks!
I spent some time on the forum's search function this morning and was unable to locate information pertaining to when Rolex applied the serial number on pre-1970 cases. Does anyone know at what point the serial number (and model number) is applied to the case during the the manufacturing process? I've read online that the case may be manufactured during a specific quarter (e.g., II 67) and due to the manufacturing process, parts turn over (1963: 1530 switch over to 1520 movement), supply chain delays, etc. watch completion may be months later. I thought I read that it took a full year to make a timepiece which may vary depending on the complexity of the watch. Article Reference: A Note About Dating - Hodinkee (scroll down about to the middle of the article) https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ro...ference-points Given my manufacturing experience, I would think the application of the serial number and model would be engraved on the case just prior of installing the movement. The engraving would not be performed unless the movement's assembly and testing completes/passes as to not waste the case. What do you guys think? Any information my fellow watch enthusiasts provide would be appreciated! |
6 October 2022, 12:14 AM | #2 |
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I dont know the answer, but why does it matter?
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6 October 2022, 12:23 AM | #3 |
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Here’s the thing… let’s say I have a rare example of a timepiece made III 66 with a gilt dial but the serial number puts it in the range (although I’ve seen different versions of the serial number range) for the following year 1967. I would assume it take ~9 months to make and test the timepiece.
So in this example, we have a 1966 case (date on inside case back), 1966 open gilt gloss dial, and 1967 bracelet. So is it a 1966 or is a 1967? Maybe the way to express it as a circa 1966. Thanks for asking. |
6 October 2022, 12:58 AM | #4 |
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Dating is an enthusiast construct, not a Rolex thing.
I'm think that cases are not engraved with a serial until needed. I believe that the serial number allocation is administrative, for example block xxx through xxx is allocated to Subs, the next block GMT, next DJ, and so on. They don't make all of them at the same time, that would be impossible, so one block is made one month, another the next month, etc, then when they make a full run of all the models, they start all over again, perhaps only then finishing the batch of allotted numbers......... or it could take a couple of years to finish the allotted numbers. Number allocations may take 2 or 3 years to complete using the 1 Million number as each full allocation throughout the line. Serial numbers have nothing to do with "model year", and all of the dating charts are completely enthusiast generated, not Rolex published.
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6 October 2022, 02:20 AM | #5 | |
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I was unaware that these lists are not official from Rolex but from 3rd parties. Probably collected and then compiled into the tables I am finding on the Internet. That explains a lot! Appreciate it! |
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6 October 2022, 10:26 AM | #6 | |
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6 October 2022, 01:54 AM | #7 |
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I agree with Aaron, I can't see why it matters. The only issue would be whether the watch as a whole is plausibly original. If there is a massive inconsistency between the various parts, then people will always be skeptical, even though there can obviously be outliers. But that is based on a large number of observations of which parts are generally found with which other parts, not any particular year or date.
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6 October 2022, 02:28 AM | #8 | |
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In my example, a 1966 Gloss Gilt Dial with open chapter ring with a 1967 serial number is something to note, but the dial, movement model, etc. should give you an overall indication on the authenticity of the watch. Thank you contributing! |
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6 October 2022, 02:56 AM | #9 | |
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6 October 2022, 02:59 AM | #10 | |
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I bought a meters first 1.7m serial here on the forum years ago, as a birth watch. Problem is, depending who I asked it was a 66 or a 67 |
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6 October 2022, 03:06 AM | #11 |
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6 October 2022, 03:04 AM | #12 |
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Hmmm
if I understand correctly, the range the serial number falls into per the compiled chart only gives a general idea of the age (i.e., year). Yes?
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6 October 2022, 04:19 AM | #13 | |
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We should use the charts to note obvious outliers, rather than absolutes. We also should note that 44xxxx and 47xxxx, and likely others, are known blocks for replacement cases. Rolex does not go back to pluck an era specific serial allotment number
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6 October 2022, 03:44 AM | #14 |
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Broadly speaking official certified Rolex watch calibres of the 50s, 60s and early 70s took a while to get returned from BUREAUX OFFICES de Controle de la Marche Des Montres and reunited with the rest of the watch. The COSC institute set up in 1973 streamlined the process a lot .
From a dating point of view caseback were numbered up to 1974 - when it was dropped unfortunately - and case-back-numbering many argue, is more accurate than serial number dating....although even these were picked out of factory model 'stock bins' so can be a QTR or so out of kilter. Therefore, it's not uncommon to see say an early c.o.s.c 1675 take 2 or even 3 years to get to a dealer and then on display to prospective buyers - with later pieces this period post-73 institute set up make that delay become less and less.
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6 October 2022, 10:16 AM | #15 | |
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Below is a chart I put together a while ago from actual watches comparing their serial numbers to their case back dates. SERIAL NUMBER CASE BACK DATE 112XXX, case back dated IV 55 223XXX, case back dated I 57 306XXX, case back dated III 57 (Sub 6536) 307XXX, case back dated III 57 (6538) 349XXX, case back dated I 1958 355XXX, case back dated II 1958 (GMT 6542) 360XXX, case back dated II 1958 (Sub 5508) 381XXX, case back dated II 1958 381XXX, case back dated I 1958 (Sub 5510) 397XXX, case back dated III 1958 (GMT 6542) 398XXX, case back dated II 1958 (GMT 6542) 398XXX, case back dated III 1958(GMT)6542) 399XXX, case back dated I 59 (SUB 6536) 400XXX, case back dated III 1958 (SUB 5508) 427XXX, case back dated IV 1958 (GMT 6542) 488XXX, case back dated III 1958(Sub 5508) 489XXX, case back dated III 59 490XXX, case back dated III 59 503XXX, case back dated I 60 (GMT) 547XXX, case back dated II 60 577XXX, case back dated II 60 596XXX, case back dated IV 60 624XXX, case back dated IV 60 (Gilt GMT) 661XXX, case back dated I 61 (Sub 5512 4-liner) 6959XX, case back dated II 61 (GMT 1675) 745XXX, case back dated II 62 87XXXX, case back dated IV 62 (Sub 5512) 87XXXX, case back dated I 63 876XXX, case back dated I 63 (GMT 1675) 87XXXX, case back dated IV 63 (Gilt GMT) 989XXX, case back dated III 63 (Sub 5513) 990XXX, case back dated III 63 997XXX, case back dated III 63 10XXXXX, case back dates III 64 10XXXXX, case back dated III 63 (Sub 5513 w/5512 case back) 10XXXXX, case back dated IV 63 104XXXX, case back dated IV 63 112XXXX, case back dated IV 64 11XXXXX, case back dated IV 64 (Gilt GMT 1675) 116XXXX, case back dated I 65 120XXXX, case back dated I 65 5513 Submariner 127XXXX, case back dated IV 64 1299XXX, case back dated II 65 (GMT 1675) 13XXXXX, case back dated IV 65 13XXXXX, case back dated II 65 (gilt GMT) 133XXXX, case back dated I 66 134XXXX, case back dated III 66 137XXXX, case back dated I 66 140XXXX, case back dated II 66 (gilt GMT) 14XXXXX, case back dated II 66 14617XX, case back dated II 66 (Gilt GMT 1675) 142XXXX, case back dated IV 65 (Gilt GMT sold 9/67) 15XXXXX, case back dated III 66 (Sub 5513) 153XXXX, case back dated II 66 (GMT 1675 gilt) 15XXXXX, case back dated VI 66 (model 1016, 6th qtr) 15XXXXX, case back dated VI 66 (model 6466, 6th qtr) 16XXXXX, case back dated II 67 (GMT, Mark I dial) 160XXXX, case back dated II 67 163XXXX, case back dated II 67 (one owner GMT full set) 164XXXX, case back dated II 67 168XXXX, case back dated II 67 170XXXX, case back dated II 67 17XXXXX, case back dated II 67 17XXXXX, case back dated IV 67 171XXXX, case back dated IV 67 177XXXX, case back dated IV 67 (Sub 5513) 179XXXX, case back dated II 67 (GMT 1675) 180XXXX, case back dated I 68 18XXXXX, case back dated I 68 (GMT 1675) 182XXXX, case back dated II 67 182XXXX, case back dated IV 67 18XXXXX, case back dated IV 67 18XXXXX, case back dated IV 67 183XXXX, case back dated I 68 185XXXX, case back dated IV 67 1852XXX, case back dated I 68 188XXXX, case back dated I 68 18XXXXX, case back dated I 68 18XXXXX, case back dated III 68 19XXXXX, case back dated III 68 19XXXXX, case back dated III 68 (GMT) 1902XXX, case back dated III 69 194XXXX, case back dated III 68 19XXXXX, case back dated IV 68 19XXXXX, case back dated IV 68 194XXXX, case back dated IV 68 204XXXX, case back dated IV 68 (sold 3/70) 2043XXX, case back dated III 68 (GMT 1675) 206XXXX, case back dated IV 68 209XXXX, case back dated IV 67 211XXXX, case back dated IV 68 (GMT, sold 8/13/71) 213XXXX, case back dated IV 68 21XXXXX, case back dated II 69 218XXXX, case back dated I 69 21XXXXX, case back dated I 69 (Submariner 1680) 22XXXXX, case back dated II 69 231XXXX, case back dated I 71 231XXXX, case back dated III 69 23348XX, case back dated IV 68 (GMT 1675) 23346XX, case back dated II 71 (GMT 1675) 2355XXX, case back dated III 69 (red Sub 1680) 23XXXXX, case back dated IV 70 24XXXXX, case back dated IV 69 24XXXXX, case back dated IV 69 24XXXXX, case back dated II 70 241XXXX, case back dated III 69 (red Sub) 241XXXX, case back dated I 70 (red Sub sold 7/71) 24XXXXX, case back dated I 70 242XXXX, case back dated II 70 (GMT Mark I dial) 244XXXX, case back dated II 70 247XXXX, case back dated II 70 25XXXXX, case back dated I 70 2556XXX, case back dated II 70 250XXXX, case back dated I 70 26XXXXX, case back dated III 70 267XXXX, case back dated I 70 27XXXXX, case back dated I 70 (Sub 1680, sold 8/26/72) 271XXXX, case back dated I 70 276XXXX, case back dated III 70 (GMT 1675) 2817XXX, case back dated I 70 (GMT 1675) 272XXXX, case back dated II 71 (Datejust 1603) 27XXXXX, case back dated II 71 (GMT) 281XXXX, case back dated II 71 28XXXXX, case back dated III 71 (1600 Datejust) 28XXXXX, case back dated IV 70 (red Sub sold 6/1974) 284XXXX, case back dated II 71 GMT 1675 286XXXX, case back dated II 70 (SS/14k GMT 1675) 28XXXXX, case back dated IV 70 2906XXX, case back dated II 71 GMT Mark II dial 29XXXXX, case back dated III 70 (Sub 5513) 292XXXX, case back dated IV 70 (Sub 1680) 29XXXXX, case back dated I 71 292XXXX, case back dated II 71 2961XXX, case back dated II 71 (GMT 1675/set) 297XXXX, case back dated II 71 29XXXXX, case back dated I 72 (Explorer) 304XXXX, case back dated II 72 307XXXX, case back dated III 71 30XXXXX, case back dated III 71 309XXXX, case back dated I 72 31XXXXX, case back dated II 71 315XXXX, case back dated II 71 (GMT 1675) 323XXXX, case back dated I 72 32XXXXX, case back dated II 72 3245XXX, case back dated II 72 (GMT/1675-SS) 3266XXX, case back dated II 72 (GMT Mark II) 330XXXX, case back dated IV 72 (Sub 1680) 33XXXXX, case back dated II 72 33XXXXX, case back dated III 72 33XXXXX, case back dated IV 72 3382XXX, case back dated II 72 (GMT) 34XXXXX, case back dated II 72 (GMT 1675) 3425XXX, case back dated III 72 (GMT 1675 set) 35XXXXX, case back dated I 72 36XXXXX, no case back date 374XXXX, no case back date 380XXXX, no case back date 386XXXX, case back dated I 72 6167XXX, --------------- (1980 Sub 1680, VE clasp code)
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6 October 2022, 10:48 AM | #16 |
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And thank you for gathering and posting that info, JP. I reference it often.
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12 October 2022, 05:36 AM | #17 | |
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This would be an especially tough watch to date. Do you go by case back date or serial number? |
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6 October 2022, 07:57 AM | #18 |
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Once upon a time...
Before all the hype, "they" did supply all info requested, so on some of my watches I know the (almost) precise date of production. |
6 October 2022, 08:01 AM | #19 |
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That is so cool, I remember when you showed some of this before.
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6 October 2022, 08:31 AM | #20 | |
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It would be great if Rolex converted their hard copy records into electronic format and have the records searchable in a database by serial number. Perhaps there are legal ramifications... anyway one can dream! |
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6 October 2022, 10:01 PM | #21 |
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Thanks to Filipćo for sharing his Rolex correspondence.
One wonders how reliable some of the answers are. For example, 5508-762976 is part of a consecutive batch of over one thousand examples of the same model, all others of which in my records have II.62 case-backs. This would not be consistent with manufacture in 1961. Insta : haywood_milton_rolex
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7 October 2022, 05:07 AM | #22 |
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7 October 2022, 11:38 AM | #23 |
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Thank you everyone for the wealth of information. Much appreciated!
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22 October 2022, 01:06 AM | #24 |
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Hey Guys;
Great thread because it totally points out the dilemma of trying to reverse engineer the manufactured dates of these watches... As pointed out, ROLEX could help us out but has decided in their infinite wisdom to just keep us guessing! About 8 years ago I took it upon myself the challenge to track down as many databases that I could and combine them into a useable document; in fact I found 8 different sources and came up with the attached spreadsheet... I don't think anyone mentioned that some watches still have the original invoice for their Rolex; Interestingly, many watches purchased back in the 60's and 70's were drifting around the pipeline for over 2 years! But, my last purchase in 2018 was at the AD's for less than 20 minutes from the time they received it from ROLEX! Bottom Line: Use lots of grains of salt trying to date your watch's date of manufacture; but have a good time while doing it!
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22 October 2022, 04:50 AM | #25 | |
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