Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[1st amg]

Hi everyone, looks like I have reached a point in my life/age 52, that I feel I need to look into this. Unfortunately, the doctors here in Canada will not suggest or recommend Testosterone Therapy unless you are below the marked guidelines. When doing bloodwork, let's say for argument's sake, if the safe or allowable levels are between 20mg and 80mg of testosterone, even though I may be closer to 20mg, it is looked upon as in the zone of acceptable. Even though it is extremely low, the doctor will not allow me to get a referral.

I was wondering if there is a way I could get this done without the doctor's referral. Possibly, there may be some of you who have done this and were also wondering what your experience is or was. I feel that my body, no matter how much I am working out, or trying to eat right, the body is not responding as it used to obviously. Thanks, folks.

[joli160]

I reached 57 thus far and meeting all kind of problems with my health. A bit more than I like to admit.
No real worries about that, just growing older I guess, we can’t stay 20 forever.

I believe in my doctor to do what’s best for me, her field of expertise.
Self doctoring based on internet stuff … I don’t know. Not for me.

[THC]

I am 66 and thought about this, but the side affects also need to be considered

[Chromosome]

be wary of TRT. It has been glorified by Hollywood/Joe Rogan types. It's a lifelong commitment and has -ve side effects

[scarlet knight]

T treatment has one notable good side effect and one bad. The good is that you can lose weight if you are overweight. The bad is that, according to my GP and urologist, it increases your chance of prostate cancer. My doctor said if one already had prostate cancer and they took T, their scan would light up like a Christmas tree.

Since my father had prostate cancer, it did not appear to be a good idea to me. In the several years since I discussed it with my doctors, it appears to be less popular than it was in the United States.

Keep in mind that I am not a doctor and I am not giving medical advice. I am only relating what my doctors told me. I am floating along with whatever T I have left.

[m j b]

I think that T-therapy is a fad that's not backed-up by any kind of science. There are normal ranges for a reason, and as we age, we will all (well, maybe not the ladies) have a natural decrease in our testosterone levels.

When I was in my early 50s I had questions about my declining performance, and got tested, and I was in the range. A lot of us (men) go through a marked and noticeable decline in our early 50s, that's normal, you will likely rebound somewhat.

No one enjoys getting older. Unless you're 12.

[brandrea]

I’ve never heard of it to be honest but my instincts would tell me to listen to your doctors advice.

Maybe there are natural supplements or dietary things to look into?

I wish you good health Nicholas.

[ltmgeller]

I looked into it as well. The side effects can be really bad and once you start, you can never stop. There are some natural boosters that you can take and proper diet and exercise can help as well.

[bullies]

I'm not saying this is you, but so many of us look for a quick fix vs a lifestyle change. Bad blood pressure, here take a pill vs working out and eating right.

With that said, obviously age does play a major factor in T levels, but are you doing everything you can to keep levels up?

Good sleep, enough protein, lifting weights, low or zero alcohol, cardio?
IF all those are maxed and you're still low, then I would look into TRT.
I see you said you're training and eating right. But, the sleep and alcohol do play a part.

I'm a big fan of Huberman Labs/Dr Peter Attia podcasts. Check them out

[Knappo 1307]

For me the risks outweighed the rewards. I've just accepted I'm aging, and as someone above said not 20 anymore.

[superdog]

I’ve done a lot of research on this.

Side effects are like many things. Overuse and abuse it, and you will likely see them. Tes is everywhere at this point. Everywhere.

Lots of mens clinics where you can get it under the watchful eye of a physician.

Like most things, there will be skeptics. And rightfully so. Anecdotal story:

I stopped drinking. I’m not counting per say, but September 1st was my first day off, so I’m at 51 days.

When discussing with the doctor she suggested I could continue drinking. Albeit moderately.

I told her I was interested in learning about TRT. She had the exact opposite reaction. Which is fine. But I find it ironic. Alcohol kills and destroys lives (I stopped mostly because I have a weak pancreas, and it was effecting my energy and workouts). But right this minute there are likely tens of thousands of AA meetings happening.

You don’t hear too much about folks dying or ruining lives from adding additional T to their system. Or even going overboard with anabolic steroids. And juice is literally everywhere at this point.

Enormous amounts of medicines approved by the FDA that are quite horrible for you. But because it was approved, folks feel better taking it. Something to be said about lobbyists here.

I’m not suggesting anyone start. But it’s worth doing homework on it. TRT had quite a few benefits that, for many, outweigh the risks.

[Blansky]

Mark Sisson from Marks Daily Apple which I follow to some extent and who wrote The Primal Blueprint takes some kind of Testosterone stuff and writes about it in his blogs. It may be worth checking that out. Here's a couple of his articles..

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-trt-edition/

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/9-fa...terone-levels/

I do believe that one you start taking it though, your body relies on it and produces less of it, and you're stuck taking it from then on. Not sure on this though.

Peter Attia has a few things about it on his podcasts as well. https://peterattiamd.com/?s=TRT

[JasoninDenver]

I have been on TRT for the last six years but I have a history of testicular cancer prior to my rather severe decline in function from 42 years old.

Make sure your reference range is adjusted for healthy samples and age adjusted as well. For years many reference ranges were totally inclusive of all test subjects, including many suspected cases of hypogonadism and many elderly patients.

My urologist said I was just within the acceptable range and he would not treat me. A GP said I was 45 and had two kids so I should not be concerned about quality of life anymore. I spent another four years literally wondering whether I could live past 60. Fatigue, muscle loss, sleep issues, anger issues, borderline depression… The doctors were happy to prescribe anti-depressants with all of their side effects without any hesitation.

After I was having chronic inflammation after an orthopedic surgery with no discernible causes, a doctor asked if I ever was diagnosed with diabetes, celiac disease or low T. I told him my history and experience with the doctors mentioned above and he literally shook his head and cursed. He said he went through the same thing years earlier and promptly referred me to his personal doctor -a specialist in hormonal therapy. This doctor promptly ran my numbers against a healthy, age-adjusted population sample and said my levels were in fact normal. For a 70 year old man!!!

I honestly cannot have an enjoyable life without TRT. However, I know many men who rely on it simply because they want to feel like they are 25 again. Trust me, you do not want this. Nor will your wife.

The therapy is simple but does require constant monitoring of t levels, prostate (by finger and blood), hemoglobin and hematocrit. If you find a doctor that just gives the injections or pellets without requiring such monitoring, run like hell.

You will likely have to self pay for this unless you find a specialist who can diagnose levels that justify a medical need. Many doctors are reluctant to prescribe simply because so many men simply abuse the therapy. The risk of this is high. Strokes, cardiac events prostate cancer risks, etc…. However, these risks are predominantly higher in men that seek the max T levels of a 25 year old man, not a normal level for their age.

If you want to simply feel like a normal man your age, keep looking for a suitable physician. It will likely be a urologist or endocrinologist. Not a GP or family doctor.

[Chester01]

Im not a physician, but improved sleep and diet can improve testosterone as can maintaining healthy weight. Some data that lifting weights can too. I am very skeptical of external anything.

[pjaffe]

Clomid is another option, its off label use is boosting T and it doesn't shut down your body's endogenous production. I was 38 with a T of 200, frequent weight lifter, slept 8 hours a night etc. Got worked up for a pituitary tumor but nothing was found. So my cause was never determined.

[Speedbird-1]

Never heard of it either.
What are the advantages?

One of my previous wives was prescribed HRT......turned her into an absolute maniac!

[Star Ferry]

Quitting alcohol, and intermittent fasting, actually raised my T well outside the “normal” range

[1st amg]

Thanks everyone for all the information and real life experiences. As stated, I do workout a combination of weights and cardio. basically, I am doing one or the either 5-6 days a week. My sleep habits are poor, 5 -6 hours max a night, not enough for sure. As far as my diet, I definitely could clean it up. I need to look into this more I suspect. I need to make sure the side effects are not too severe. Thanks again everyone.

[TheVTCGuy]

Nicholas, you have to do what you and your doctor feel is right for you, and whatever you decide I hope the best works out.

Now let me tell you about a co-worker....

When I joined a new company last year, I had a co-worker go on and on about his Testosterone treatments. He was getting shots once a week from some "Clinic." He was in impeccable shape, ripped, 40 years old, former over-seas military contractor... Maybe he was like this normally but he was always hyper and running 110%, I swear I would see him foaming at the mouth. This condition always seemed to be most intense after his weekly shot. I am not a Doctor, have no experience or knowledge about these treatments but I can tell you seeing him made me severely doubt I would ever try it.

I was a partial-scholarship College athlete, the shortest guy (by about three inches) on my Div-1 Lacrosse team at the University of California (and proud of it!). I was 175 pounds of solid muscle and ran a 4.55 40 yard dash. In my flying days as a Navy Fighter Pilot, we were all type-As and a drive to keep ourselves in top condition and competitive. Now? As I am around the big 60? Well, honestly I consider myself in pretty good condition. I routinely hike 12 to 15 miles in the mountains, run the treadmill every other day, eat pretty well and am proud of my mature appearance. Was I like I used to be? Of course not, never will be again, not in this life anyway, but I take decent care of myself and accept I am no longer 25 years old. I don't want you to take this as advice, you have to do what is best for you, and again, I wish the best whatever you decide. For me, accepting I am not what I used to be but still in pretty good shape was enough, and I decided not to put that stuff in my body.

Here is to your health!

[logo]

I'm a doctor. The only advice I'll give is to talk to an endocrinologist and ask them WHY they do or do not recommend hormone replacement for you. Then balance those reasons one way or the other against any advice to the contrary you receive, from other doctors, internet or elsewhere, keeping in mind the difference between anecdote-based medicine, uninsured for-profit medicine, evidence-based medicine and risk stratification.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by logo

I'm a doctor. The only advice I'll give is to talk to an endocrinologist and ask them WHY they do or do not recommend hormone replacement for you. Then balance those reasons one way or the other against any advice to the contrary you receive, from other doctors, internet or elsewhere, keeping in mind the difference between anecdote-based medicine, uninsured for-profit medicine, evidence-based medicine and risk stratification.

This is the only proper answer that anyone can give you.

[George58]

im 64 been taking test injection every two weeks 1ML under doctors direction i inject my self now had the jell and the seeds before I get reg blood work and exams I do have low test levels with out it THATS WHY I TAKE IT not for performance in the gym and shit like that 20 years no side effects

[Wcdhtwn]

I know a few guys who take this and swear by it. https://choq.com/ No idea if it’s available in Canada. I don’t know anything about it so don’t consider this an endorsement.

I personally don’t buy the testosterone stuff… and I think it’s the way it’s advertised, “tired, overweight, crabby, moving slower then you want, want to perform better in bed, testosterone is the answer to it all!”. Please. I know it’s necessary for some, but most would benefit from better sleep, less alcohol, better diet.

[Watchflair]

I’ll send you a DM with my doctors information - they have several clinics throughout the US.

I’ve been on it for a few years now. It’s the absolute BEST thing I’ve ever done. I feel like me again - energy level is the biggest difference.

I noticed a decline when I was around 30. I let it go for a few years - just didn’t feel like me. I went to my doctor and had 4 different blood tests to measure my levels. Three times I was under the threshold - one time I was slightly over. They made it such a big deal - I actually had to argue with the doctor as she claimed I was over the threshold for the one test so it wasn’t necessary. They begrudgingly prescribed me the gel that you apply under you arms - that had almost no effect and was a waste of time.

I got connected to the doctor I am with now. We talked about the pros, cons and potential medical issues. I knew after the first month that I had made the right decision. I get blood tests twice a year to measure my levels. Donate blood twice a year as well.

You have to make your own decision and do what’s best for you.

I work out a minimum of three times a week - my goal is to stay trimmed and toned. I watch what I eat. I do drink but keep it within reason - certain things I just can’t give up. I make sure I get a reasonable amount of sleep - it’s more important than most realize. I look and feel better now than I did 9 years ago.

Like anything you have to weigh the pros and cons. I too was on the lower side of the scale - I’ve never wanted to be the best of the worst at anything in life.


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[TswaneNguni]

Testosterone replacement therapy is part of anti-ageing medicine .
Go to an anti-ageing specialist ,have your levels tested and the Dr will advise and treat .
Optimal level for age is the goal .That's all.
All men over 40 should have their levels checked .Especially those in high stress job environments ...I promise you,you will be at the lower end of normal range on your blood tests.

I am not the expert,but my wife is .It's a large part of her medical practice.
My levels are optimal since the age of 42.I am now 53.

I was completely burned out at age 42 ...testosterone far below optimal for age,cortisol levels very low .Was completely overworked at the time ,looked and felt like death .. (Cardiac Anesthesiologist at the time ...work,work,work ).

Highly recommended if you do it through an anti-ageing specialist .

[TC94]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Was completely overworked at the time ,looked and felt like death .. (Cardiac Anesthesiologist at the time ...work,work,work ).

Highly recommended if you do it through an anti-ageing specialist .

That explains the avatar. I always wondered if it is an image from a cardiac nuclear stress test or a Hubble/Webb colorized black hole.

Or both.

[htc8p]

maybe look into traditional chinese medicine

accupuncture
or
herbal medicine

[DocHorton]

I know quite a few guys in their lower 40's who do it....every single one loves it. More energy, better sex, less tired, better sleep, less moody, better workout performance, stronger, weight loss, etc.