Timepiece Gentlemen- Watches and Serial #’s

[geoffreyis]

This isn’t a bash thread. Just trying to help out fellow watch collectors. If you bought a watch from AF or suspect that it came from him or haven’t been paid on a watch that was “consigned” here is a thread to post watches and serial numbers so someone doesn’t unknowingly buy a stolen piece. Sucks that it came to this.

[Podmornica]

Hardly anyone will google for a serial number of the watch he bought and it's probably too late at this point as he must have already cashed out the consigned stock of watches.

I heard he's already $5M in debt by now and who knows, it may have been his plan from the beginning.

[Booth9999]

Cocaine is a hell of a drug!

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by geoffreyis

This isn’t a bash thread. Just trying to help out fellow watch collectors. If you bought a watch from AF or suspect that it came from him or haven’t been paid on a watch that was “consigned” here is a thread to post watches and serial numbers so someone doesn’t unknowingly buy a stolen piece. Sucks that it came to this.

If he has a consignment agreement with someone and a buyer paid the money to him to buy a watch. He doesn't pass the money on. Is the watch stolen? Or has he stolen money from the seller?

[massabee]

Apparently part of his story is that many of the watches on consignment with him were stolen from him, whether that story is true or will be the final story he posts, is unknown. There are conflicts between claiming that he lost the watches and admitting that he has substance abuse, gambling and spending problems. Maybe all are true.

The Timepiece Gentleman Saga Continues. Anthony Farrer Posts YouTube Video Admitting Wrongdoings and $5 Million USD in Debt.

If the watches were stolen then Anthony himself should file a police report and state the owner's name and provide the owner with a copy of the report. If instead he sold them, well then, that story will come out eventually and conflict with any claim of theft. As a private collector who has listed a few for sale here on RolexForums, I can relate to wanting to just sell the watches to a dealer, but most dealers will try to lowball and make a massive profit themselves. When a consignor comes along and promises top dollar, such as Anthony must have done, I can see how some private sellers might have been sold on shipping off their watches.

As far as the investors, if the money they put in was used for other than what they were advised in writing it would be spent for, then they have recourse against the venture, including by pushing for criminal charges.

Over all I think a lot of people when it comes to mistakes made in picking a buyer or seller, or making an investment, are quick to say, "I wouldn't have done that," but you can't really know unless you're facing the same circumstances and sifting through the same facts that that person is confronted with when making his decision. If you go down the list of even Ponzi scam victims, many were very sophisticated business people.

[whiskyrolex]

Originally Posted by massabee

Apparently part of his story is that many of the watches on consignment with him were stolen from him, whether that story is true or will be the final story he posts, is unknown. There are conflicts between claiming that he lost the watches and admitting that he has substance abuse, gambling and spending problems. Maybe all are true.

The Timepiece Gentleman Saga Continues. Anthony Farrer Posts YouTube Video Admitting Wrongdoings and $5 Million USD in Debt.

If the watches were stolen then Anthony himself should file a police report and state the owner's name and provide the owner with a copy of the report. If instead he sold them, well then, that story will come out eventually and conflict with any claim of theft. As a private collector who has listed a few for sale here on RolexForums, I can relate to wanting to just sell the watches to a dealer, but most dealers will try to lowball and make a massive profit themselves. When a consignor comes along and promises top dollar, such as Anthony must have done, I can see how some private sellers might have been sold on shipping off their watches.

As far as the investors, if the money they put in was used for other than what they were advised in writing it would be spent for, then they have recourse against the venture, including by pushing for criminal charges.

Over all I think a lot of people when it comes to mistakes made in picking a buyer or seller, or making an investment, are quick to say, "I wouldn't have done that," but you can't really know unless you're facing the same circumstances and sifting through the same facts that that person is confronted with when making his decision. If you go down the list of even Ponzi scam victims, many were very sophisticated business people.

You're days behind he already admitted publicly he was not robbed.

[sirC]

From what I read he admitted to a consignee the robbery was a lie. The guy has always been bad news. I hope he is criminally charged.

[massabee]

Post links immediately.

Any updates would be interesting.

[sirC]

Originally Posted by massabee

Post links immediately.

Any updates would be interesting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTpGentleman/?rdt=52490

You can spend hours reading thru the info..............

[bay_area_kid]

This video gives a good summary so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd_enAEcmDw

But the biggest WTF right now is that he is still trading watches and some dealers are still trading with him. His rationale right now is basically: "Let me work off my debt to you because if you don't let me trade some of your watches, you're not getting your money back. If you file charges against me and I go back to prison, you're definitely not getting your money back."

Sadly, a lot of the smaller dealers he has done business with have already lost a lot of money last year due to the market dip. So some of them are letting Anthony call the shots because they are desperately in debt too.

[Modiferous]

Let's assume he owes to two categories of people:

1 - People who sold or consigned watches
2 - Investors who gave him cash

Category 1 he owes if he didn't pay them what was promised or return the watch. I'd imagine that these people would under the circumstances lower their expectations to get back something less than what was originally promised.

Category 2 he owes if he used the funds for something other than he promised in writing. This category too would probably be willing to get back less than what was promised, waiving at least any expected profit.

Other than just hoping the guy will get back on his feet and compensate people, both of these categories could sue the guy civilly, but the lawsuit would probably have to happen where the guy lives, because unless specified otherwise in writing, lawsuits happen where the defendant works or resides. Plus the lawsuit would have to prove up damages, unless the guy doesn't bother to show up to defend, but even then some minimal proof is required before the court will assign a number to a judgment.

Lawsuits may be costly, and time consuming, especially if the defendant offers any kind of defense.

And then the victims in either category could try the criminal route, try to get charges filed against him. Getting criminal charges for category 1 isn't a given - the sellers or consignees would have to prove that the guy had no intention to pay back, such as that he sold the watches with no intent to turn over the funds to the category 1 people. While it may seem easy given statements the guy has made that imply misuse of funds, no one goes to jail for going out of business, but if the business was steadily taking in merchandise with no intent to repay, that's criminal. Over all, the pattern alone of what happened to so many might be enough to put together a criminal case for the category 1, when combined with the guy's conflicting statements and eventual admission that he spent the money that came in badly.

And then with Category 2, I'd assume there was some kind of prospectus even if it wasn't called that describing what was supposed to happen to the investment money. I am sure no one was told that the funds would be used for personal expenses, travel, gambling, luxury purchases. Putting together a case here might take more time, but probably could be done.

But at the end of the day, if a criminal case is put together that results in a conviction, all of the victims, even ones that weren't specifically named in the criminal charges, may submit evidence of what they lost, and in criminal cases the evidence needed to prove up losses isn't nearly as extensive as what is required in civil court, and a restitution order would be entered against the guy. Restitution implies making a person whole - no expectation profit.

In most states though, even a restitution order has all the weight of a civil judgment, although at least it doesn't have to be renewed regularly it remains in force forever.

So at the end of the day, other than the satisfaction to some victims that the guy is punished for what he did via a criminal conviction, the criminal route offers the same uncertainty as the civil route as to whether any order or judgment will ever get paid. The guy could easily go the rest of his life self employed and never pay back a dime. Look at for example Jordan Belfort – The Wolf of Wall Street – that guy was ordered to pay back over $110M in restitution via his criminal conviction, but even though he supposedly still earns something like $9M a year via speaking arrangements, he has yet to pay back much of this restitution, still owes almost all of it.

Which is why it actually makes some sense that some people might be willing to keep working with the guy in the hopes that he will earn and start repaying what he owes. If he doesn’t start taking in more than he repays though, again.

[rmagoo57]

Originally Posted by geoffreyis

This isn’t a bash thread. Just trying to help out fellow watch collectors. If you bought a watch from AF or suspect that it came from him or haven’t been paid on a watch that was “consigned” here is a thread to post watches and serial numbers so someone doesn’t unknowingly buy a stolen piece. Sucks that it came to this.

Hey, the OP here is trying to help out the victims so post the "AF shit show" comments on the other threads.

Curious if anyone here on TRF has been scammed??

[Modiferous]

The guy now says that nothing was stolen from him. He sold the watches or still has them. So anyone who consigned a watch to him or sold a watch to him without getting paid, under what category does he make a police report to justify posting the serial number here as a "stolen" watch?

Or is it just a civil matter.

Or someplace in between.

As I explained above, none of this is as simple as that. Unfortunately.

[southtexas]

If this Reddit thread is real, the guy is in trouble. Or maybe it’s true—there’s no such thing as bad publicity?

Reddit thread purportedly started by LA Times writer asking for info and stories on Timepiece Gentleman:

https://reddit.com/r/TheTpGentleman/s/rf8LHctA0W

[sirC]

Looks like the Feds have brought charges

https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr...onning-victims

[bob99]

Link to a copy of the official 21 page criminal complaint: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w87l0...z0l6656bb&dl=0

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by bob99

Link to a copy of the official 21 page criminal complaint: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w87l0...z0l6656bb&dl=0

Yikes. He’s in trouble. The YouTube video is all they needed. I bet he’s not the only one they get.