The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 31 August 2009, 09:51 AM   #1
Flyer737
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 183
Tweaking the Parachrom!

Hi all,

I have had my GMTIIc just over a month, and took it back to an official Rolex dealer, complaining that my watch was consistently losing 3-4 seconds a day based on wearing every day. The dealer said they would show the watch to their official onsite Rolex approved engineer, who put my watch on a meter and could immediately tell it was running slow.

He told me as the watch was bordering on limits he suggested under warranty he tweak the movement and this would change the centrifugal force and would be able to speed it up. I asked how accurate he could get it, and stated he would need the watch for 48 hrs to monitor and adjust accordingly. He has done this and the watch has been returned to me, however upon leaving it the watch engineer, he explained to me how it was better to have the watch running slightly fast, as you would never be late. I wasn't entirely convinced by this best practice and asked if it could be just adjusted to be more or less bang on! He stated he would do his best!

I have now had the watch back, having been adjusted, monitored and pressure tested, and it now runs consistently 3-4 seconds fast per day. If the watch can keep this consistency, would any of you recommend I take it back to improve accuracy further! Any thoughts comments would be greatly appreciated!
__________________
Flyer737 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 10:14 AM   #2
karmatp
"TRF" Member
 
karmatp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Real Name: Trevor
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,740
I am personally very happy with a mechanical watch that runs 3-4 seconds fast a day. Usually, I can self regulate by positioning the watch while resting to keep it near perfect.

Try the crown up, speed it up or crown down, slow it down methods and you might be able to get it spot on. Check out your owners manual and it will give you more info.
__________________
My grails:
karmatp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 03:04 PM   #3
kkchome
"TRF" Member
 
kkchome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Watch: Submariner 14060M
Posts: 162
I agree with karmatp. 3-4 seconds a day on the wrist is totally acceptable.

When you go to sleep at night, place the watch on your nightstand crown facing down and see how that goes.
__________________
Rolex Submariner (14060M) | Explorer 2 White Dial (16570) | Day Date (1803) ♛
Audemars Piguet Royal Oak (15400) | Edward Piguet (15015ST)
Vacheron Constantin Overseas Chronometer (42042) | Overseas Chronograph (49140)
JLC Master Control Hometime (Q1628420)
kkchome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 03:41 PM   #4
Starwalker
"TRF" Member
 
Starwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: aroundtheworld
Watch: SS Daytona - BLACK
Posts: 2,261
In singapore, I was at the RSC cuz my new daytona was running according to my own calculations 4 seconds slow. I gave it to the attendant there and stold them my problem. She gives it to a rolex technican and in about 5 mins he came back saying it was -3.5 seconds slow and that I should come back in 30mins. The cool part about the RSC here is that you can see the Rolex technicians working behing a glass screen - like a glass labroratory. I saw him open the case back, do a few interesting things - adjusting something within it, put the watch back together, screw the case back on, he came back to me "Sir, your watch is almost 0.5seconds fast!!!". Beautiful! The service at the RSC here is extremely good, very happy with it. +2/3 seconds would have still been fine by me, as long as it wasnt running slow, the thought ofthe watch making me late was a bit frustrating.
__________________
116520 Black - 116500 White - 116713LN - 116613LB - Panerai 389 - Chopard Mille Miglia GMT Chronograph - Chopard LUC Sport 2000 - Moser Pioneer Centre Seconds
Starwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 07:31 PM   #5
argee1977
"TRF" Member
 
argee1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Ryan
Location: England
Watch: AP ROC
Posts: 1,462
I'd take it back and get it regulated, i mean after reading the sales pitch by rolex anything with a parachrom hairspring should be running at +/- 1 second at worst!
__________________

PANERAI, MORE THAN A WATCH, LESS THAN A KITKAT
argee1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 08:13 PM   #6
tomc1944
"TRF" Member
 
tomc1944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Tom
Location: Sun City, Florida
Watch: DSSD Deepsea
Posts: 89
Try This.

__________________


Rolex 1011 Oyster Perpetual
Rolex DSSD
Rolex Airking
Christopher Ward C4
tomc1944 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 08:27 PM   #7
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer737 View Post
Hi all,

I have had my GMTIIc just over a month, and took it back to an official Rolex dealer, complaining that my watch was consistently losing 3-4 seconds a day based on wearing every day. The dealer said they would show the watch to their official onsite Rolex approved engineer, who put my watch on a meter and could immediately tell it was running slow.

He told me as the watch was bordering on limits he suggested under warranty he tweak the movement and this would change the centrifugal force and would be able to speed it up. I asked how accurate he could get it, and stated he would need the watch for 48 hrs to monitor and adjust accordingly. He has done this and the watch has been returned to me, however upon leaving it the watch engineer, he explained to me how it was better to have the watch running slightly fast, as you would never be late. I wasn't entirely convinced by this best practice and asked if it could be just adjusted to be more or less bang on! He stated he would do his best!

I have now had the watch back, having been adjusted, monitored and pressure tested, and it now runs consistently 3-4 seconds fast per day. If the watch can keep this consistency, would any of you recommend I take it back to improve accuracy further! Any thoughts comments would be greatly appreciated!
Short answer No and regulation is nothing to do with parachrome spring or any other spring .Just simple adjustment of the timing screws or correct term Microstella screws on the balance wheel.Remember in a day the escapement of a mechanical watch pushes the gears 432,000 times. Since a day has 86,400 seconds and your watch just gains 3-4 seconds.You should be very very happy with such a accurate watch.Stop all this worrying over a few seconds,just wear your watch in good health for the next few decades thats far more important I can assure you.And why anyone would want to get the back off any watch just for 3 seconds amazes me.And after regulation on machine,it dont mean it will perform exactly the same on your wrist.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 09:50 PM   #8
dohmer
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Håkan
Location: Sweden
Watch: 14060M,16700,79090
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Short answer No and regulation is nothing to do with parachrome spring or any other spring .Just simple adjustment of the timing screws or correct term Microstella screws on the balance wheel.Remember in a day the escapement of a mechanical watch pushes the gears 432,000 times. Since a day has 86,400 seconds and your watch just gains 3-4 seconds.You should be very very happy with such a accurate watch.Stop all this worrying over a few seconds,just wear your watch in good health for the next few decades thats far more important I can assure you.And why anyone would want to get the back off any watch just for 3 seconds amazes me.And after regulation on machine,it dont mean it will perform exactly the same on your wrist.
`
+1

A minute (fast/slow) or so a month is GOOD. There is few jobs or meetings that req. accuracy to the second!
dohmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 10:01 PM   #9
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by dohmer View Post
`
+1

A minute (fast/slow) or so a month is GOOD. There is few jobs or meetings that req. accuracy to the second!
Then they should buy a quartz or radio controlled watch as no mechanical watch, any price any brand, will give that accuracy unless its a watch in a million.And would doubt that any meeting or any ones job would rely on the absolute second of any retail bought wrist wearing personal owned watch.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 01:05 AM   #10
dohmer
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Håkan
Location: Sweden
Watch: 14060M,16700,79090
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Then they should buy a quartz or radio controlled watch as no mechanical watch, any price any brand, will give that accuracy unless its a watch in a million.And would doubt that any meeting or any ones job would rely on the absolute second of any retail bought wrist wearing personal owned watch.
Amen to that!
dohmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 01:32 AM   #11
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,515
With a mechanical watch, a person needs to decide what they will be satisfied with...

Anything else and disappointment will surely be the result..

However, finding a watchmaker who will chase that elusive second or two can be more frustrating than anything you will ever know.. There are just too many things that will affect the timing.. Temperature, position, wearing habits.. even how loose or tight you wear it on your wrist can affect the amplitude of the hairspring and affect the timing..

Personally, I would have taken in a watch that is 3 or 4 seconds slow....only because I don't like a slow watch... I would hope that it would come back within a second or so.... but the watchmaker is turning several tiny screws on the perimeter of the balance wheel only a notch or so and balancing out each side... Asking him to take a watch that is operating at 99.992 percent daily deviation, "tweaking" it and resulting in 99.995 daily deviation may be asking entirely too much..
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 11:58 PM   #12
watchmaker
TechXpert
 
watchmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Scott
Location: London
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Short answer No and regulation is nothing to do with parachrome spring or any other spring .Just simple adjustment of the timing screws or correct term Microstella screws on the balance wheel.Remember in a day the escapement of a mechanical watch pushes the gears 432,000 times. Since a day has 86,400 seconds and your watch just gains 3-4 seconds.You should be very very happy with such a accurate watch.Stop all this worrying over a few seconds,just wear your watch in good health for the next few decades thats far more important I can assure you.And why anyone would want to get the back off any watch just for 3 seconds amazes me.And after regulation on machine,it dont mean it will perform exactly the same on your wrist.
While i more than agree that 3-4 seconds is perfectly reasonable, I thought i would chime in and say that any watchmaker who knows what he was doing would start off by looking at the hairspring. It is quite common for the spring to catch on itself or the curbpins and this will cause a gain.

So when regulating I would start by examining the hairspring, ensuring it is flat and concentric (adjusting as necessary) Then I would move on to the time adjustment screws.

The watch will be tested on a Witschi M1 chronoscope fully wound at the zero hour (and checked against tolerances which vary by calibre) and then tested again 24hours later. I will then fully wind again and this time test the power reserve. I believe even small jobs should have time taken on them. Thus reducing the chance of the watch coming back in with a fault i didnt notice. My advice is always opt to leave your watch for a couple of days to be sure of optimal performance. If you want it done in 30 minutes, that isnt enough time to check for possible faults.
watchmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 12:09 AM   #13
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmaker View Post
While i more than agree that 3-4 seconds is perfectly reasonable, I thought i would chime in and say that any watchmaker who knows what he was doing would start off by looking at the hairspring. It is quite common for the spring to catch on itself or the curbpins and this will cause a gain.

So when regulating I would start by examining the hairspring, ensuring it is flat and concentric (adjusting as necessary) Then I would move on to the time adjustment screws.

The watch will be tested on a Witschi M1 chronoscope fully wound at the zero hour (and checked against tolerances which vary by calibre) and then tested again 24hours later. I will then fully wind again and this time test the power reserve. I believe even small jobs should have time taken on them. Thus reducing the chance of the watch coming back in with a fault i didnt notice. My advice is always opt to leave your watch for a couple of days to be sure of optimal performance. If you want it done in 30 minutes, that isnt enough time to check for possible faults.
While I would agree with you to examining the hairspring to see if it was catching etc.But above poster was saying his watch was consistent -3-4 slow and after regulation +3 +4 after.If hairspring was catching surely his watch would not show such high consistancy.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 10:14 PM   #14
greekbum
"TRF" Member
 
greekbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Real Name: Nikos
Location: Florida
Watch: Rolex GMT 16750
Posts: 8,418
I would leave it alone.
__________________
Follow Me On Instagram @nickgogas

Original Owner ROLEX 16750 GMT Daily Wearer For Over 13,000 Days And Counting
greekbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 August 2009, 10:21 PM   #15
dkpw
"TRF" Member
 
dkpw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: David
Location: Scotland
Watch: 16610 & 214270
Posts: 1,294
This letter from Rolex may help you relax, and reiterates the sound advice from Padi.

__________________
Sub 16610, Explorer 214270, Ω Speedy Pro & many others.

David
dkpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 12:24 AM   #16
watchmaker
TechXpert
 
watchmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Scott
Location: London
Posts: 2,242
If the spring is caught it will essentially be shorter, resulting in a gain, however a bend either vertically or laterally may cause a loss. In any event regulation always starts at the hairspring, gain or loss.

The truth is many 'watchmakers' do not know how to adjust or make a hairspring. For them an inspection to see that it is not actually snapped could be all they know to look for. Unfortunately in an industry where there are so few professionals, there are many who take shortcuts, and may not understand the finer details for watchmaking. For many, being able to take a watch apart, replace broken parts and put back together is enough for them to call themselves watchmakers, when in fact, they are more technitians. Simply put, there are not enough WOSTEP watchmakers and too many self taugh ones.
watchmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 01:55 AM   #17
B. Doggy
"TRF" Member
 
B. Doggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Bryan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,399
This thread sounds like a movie title.
__________________
Rolex / Panerai / Omega
B. Doggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 04:33 AM   #18
Flyer737
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 183
Padi56, new to the forum, and new to Rolex ownership, I think you should take a chill pill, I was only after some courteous advice, not a rant and criticism, after all it was the Rolex AD that suggested tweaking it!
__________________
Flyer737 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 04:41 AM   #19
Flyer737
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 183
As far as I am concerned I think it running slightly fast is better than it running slow, however when it was running slow, I tried the laying it flat technique at night to no avail. I have however since tried laying it on it's side since it's tweak as described in my first post and it seems to be not actually gaining 3-4 a day now, more +1/2 or so the last two days. I think it's a case of letting it settle, maybe the laws of physics are more powerful at slowing down rather than speeding up!
__________________
Flyer737 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 07:25 AM   #20
SDDS
"TRF" Member
 
SDDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: Yazan
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,782
interesting info
__________________
Patek Philippe 5167
Patek Philippe 5905P black dial
Rolex Deepsea 116660 M series
Rolex Oysterquartz 17000 N series
Rolex OP 41MM 124300 Green Dial
SDDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 September 2009, 09:01 AM   #21
nektar
"TRF" Member
 
nektar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Watch: 114060
Posts: 1,678
3 sec/ per day it is ok!!!!!!
nektar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

OCWatches

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.