Nano-protection coating of the crystal

[Sojamannen]

Hello friends!

I am a new member of this forum, and I hope that I can contribute with interesting subjects!
I have also newly bought a Rolex Sea-Dweller Z-serial, my first Rolex! An amazing watch, totally uncompromised! It feels like if I have reached the end of searching “the watch” for a lifetime. This will be a "keeper" for life!

My profession is ILS (integrated logistic support) of optical and electrooptical devises for the Swedish Defence. We study a lot of different kinds of optical coating, even for after-market use.

One interesting area is the nano-technique-substances. There are quite lot of brands and products for nano-coating car windshields, glasses, motor cycle helmet visors, etc. The thing with nano- technique is that the rain and dirt repellent substance is split in to small particles in nano-size(0,000 000 001 mm). When you treat a glass surface, the small particles get almost inside the glass, creating a really hard bonding between the glass and the substance which can only be removed mechanically. The coated glass surface is now 1,5 to 2 times stronger then before against scratches, extreme flat and slippery, making it difficult for fingerprints, dirt and etc to stick. We are using this technique to protect the optics of binoculars, lenses, night vision devices, etc.

Has someone tried this coating method on a watch crystal? Wouldn’t be great if your Rolex crystal got 1,5 to 2 times stronger against scratches and easier to wipe off dirt from it?

What do you think? Any opinions?

[Singslinger]

Welcome to TRF and thanks for the informative post! I'm not technically trained in this sort of thing but it sure sounds interesting, or at least worth trying, especially if it works well on other glass/crystal surfaces. I'm sure some of the more competent TRF members will soon offer their opinions.

[Colnago]

Sounds excellent....where can I get it done?......big welcome to the forum, that certainly counts as an interesting subject as far as I am concerned....

[padi56]

Well in over 30 years of Rolex wearing plastic to sapphire had a few scratches on the plastic crystals but very very easy to remove.But never ever had any need to polish or anything else to the sapphire other than keep clean with plain old soap and water

[Andad]

Hi S,

Welcome to the Forum,

Interesting. Diamond is 4-5 times harder than sapphire so if you made sapphire 2x harder using nano technology, yes, it would be harder but it would probably still be scratched with the same 'accidents' that scratch normal sapphire.
As for the easy cleaning, that would be good but most owners would probably wash and polish their Rolex watches just as they do now.

If you perfect this coating I'll send you my 14060m as a test bed.

[BASSETHOUNDS]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Hi S,

Welcome to the Forum,

Interesting. Diamond is 4-5 times harder than sapphire so if you made sapphire 2x harder using nano technology, yes, it would be harder but it would probably still be scratched with the same 'accidents' that scratch normal sapphire.
As for the easy cleaning, that would be good but most owners would probably wash and polish their Rolex watches just as they do now.

If you perfect this coating I'll send you my 14060m as a test bed.

You hit the nail on its head . It would be a futile operation ( probably costly with it ) and not have any real day to day benefit .

[Bullyterrier]

I think it is a good idea, and you will see it being used more widely in the future. But until Rolex decides to use it there will be many that will knock it saying why do we need it, but when they do use it eventually it will be the best thing since sliced bread...If it is being used in optics to prevent scratches then why not on a bloody watch.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Bullyterrier

I think it is a good idea, and you will see it being used more widely in the future. But until Rolex decides to use it there will be many that will knock it saying why do we need it, but when they do use it eventually it will be the best thing since sliced bread...If it is being used in optics to prevent scratches then why not on a bloody watch.

Not a lot of optical glass is made from sapphire glass - wonder why?

[Colnago]

Quick question to the OP......is the coating anti-reflective?......I think that the AR coating on the cyclops of my GMTIIc is fantastic......if it also incorportaes this feature it could well be a winner

[GMTJOHNNY]

Most nano-coatings I have worked with in the lab are titanium dioxide based and thus much softer than sapphire so, yes, perhaps a futile exercise. Nano-TiO2 is great for self cleaning windows and bath fixtures, but the sapphire crystal is pretty robust on its own. I am also not sure about the availability of bonding sites on the sapphire surface to enable sufficient adhesion with the scratch resistant coating- i need to see the sapphire crystal structure to see what atoms would be participating at the surface. IMHO. Great to see so many thinkers here!

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by Colnago

Quick question to the OP......is the coating anti-reflective?......I think that the AR coating on the cyclops of my GMTIIc is fantastic......if it also incorportaes this feature it could well be a winner

Hey Bill, if memory serves me correctly, Rolex has stated that although they can easily make complete crystal non-reflective (as several other high-end watches already are) they have intentionally chosen NOT to, as they believe that the reflective crystal is very much part of their historical identity.

Originally Posted by directioneng

Not a lot of optical glass is made from sapphire glass - wonder why?

Hi Eddie, excuse my ignorance, but why? Cost? Weight? Brittle?

Originally Posted by GMTJOHNNY

Most nano-coatings I have worked with in the lab are titanium dioxide based and thus much softer than sapphire so, yes, perhaps a futile exercise. Nano-TiO2 is great for self cleaning windows and bath fixtures, but the sapphire crystal is pretty robust on its own. I am also not sure about the availability of bonding sites on the sapphire surface to enable sufficient adhesion with the scratch resistant coating- i need to see the sapphire crystal structure to see what atoms would be participating at the surface. IMHO. Great to see so many thinkers here!

Hey John, wow, there is so much knowledge on this site. Just wanted to also say a humble thanks for the flattering comments on "that other" post.

Cheers, hope you get a kick from driving that 993 every day

[dukester]

Interesting post.....however, I am with Padi on this one. There's no cost effective way to make the sapphire crystal 2x stronger. Secondly, the best way to clean my Rolex is with soap and water, it always works!

[Andad]

Hi John,

On the Mohs hardness scale diamonds are 10. Quartz is 7. Glass is 6. Sapphire is between a 9 and 10..... hardened optical glass is between a 6 and a 7. Harder than glass but not as hard as quartz. Sapphire can shatter more easy than mineral glass and is much more expansive. It is also much more expensive to manufacture and even more difficult and expensive to shape and polish.

[Porsche]

Thanks Eddie, I geddit now... too hard to work with, shape, polish etc. Maybe a bit beyond the skills and equipment of your local corner sunglass hut (he he)

So, does the Mohs scale go past 10, say.... to 11 ??? (a little Spinal Tap humor there...).

Seriously, is anything harder than diamond? I suppose that then begs the question.. how do they polish diamonds?

[NitroRacer]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Thanks Eddie, I geddit now... too hard to work with, shape, polish etc. Maybe a bit beyond the skills and equipment of your local corner sunglass hut (he he)

So, does the Mohs scale go past 10, say.... to 11 ??? (a little Spinal Tap humor there...).

Seriously, is anything harder than diamond? I suppose that then begs the question.. how do they polish diamonds?

Man-made nanomaterials have always been harder than diamonds.

Here is an article on wurtzite boron nitride and lonsdaleite, both said to have greater indentation strengths than diamond.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-material.html

[Z-Sub]

one of my GMT's crystal has a tiny chip which can only be seen at certain angles. maybe if this was applied to the crystal that would not have happened.

then again, is that going to make sapphire harder than diamond?

[Sojamannen]

Thanks everybody for your warm welcome!

I'm happy to see that the interest is big!

Eddie, thank you for your offer, but I have to check the surface of sappire glass first. The treating surface has to be little ruff (looking at a common glass surface with a scanning electrone microscope, it's like grand canyon!), so that the coating has something to attach to. And also maker sure that the coating don't create any optical phenomenon, like strange color, mottled surface, etc. I'll try this coating method on a "timex" watch sapphire glass first.

I'll report the results!

[turboBB]

Originally Posted by Sojamannen

Thanks everybody for your warm welcome!

I'm happy to see that the interest is big!

Eddie, thank you for your offer, but I have to check the surface of sappire glass first. The treating surface has to be little ruff (looking at a common glass surface with a scanning electrone microscope, it's like grand canyon!), so that the coating has something to attach to. And also maker sure that the coating don't create any optical phenomenon, like strange color, mottled surface, etc. I'll try this coating method on a "timex" watch sapphire glass first.

I'll report the results!

Welcome to TRF! Interesting topic you've raised, please keep us posted on your experiments.

Cheers,
Tim

[unclesallie]

Originally Posted by Sojamannen

Hello friends!

I am a new member of this forum, and I hope that I can contribute with interesting subjects!
I have also newly bought a Rolex Sea-Dweller Z-serial, my first Rolex! An amazing watch, totally uncompromised! It feels like if I have reached the end of searching “the watch” for a lifetime. This will be a "keeper" for life!

My profession is ILS (integrated logistic support) of optical and electrooptical devises for the Swedish Defence. We study a lot of different kinds of optical coating, even for after-market use.

One interesting area is the nano-technique-substances. There are quite lot of brands and products for nano-coating car windshields, glasses, motor cycle helmet visors, etc. The thing with nano- technique is that the rain and dirt repellent substance is split in to small particles in nano-size(0,000 000 001 mm). When you treat a glass surface, the small particles get almost inside the glass, creating a really hard bonding between the glass and the substance which can only be removed mechanically. The coated glass surface is now 1,5 to 2 times stronger then before against scratches, extreme flat and slippery, making it difficult for fingerprints, dirt and etc to stick. We are using this technique to protect the optics of binoculars, lenses, night vision devices, etc.

Has someone tried this coating method on a watch crystal? Wouldn’t be great if your Rolex crystal got 1,5 to 2 times stronger against scratches and easier to wipe off dirt from it?

What do you think? Any opinions?

wow...i wonder if rolex has thought about this? that sapphire crystal's structure would be affected? made stronger? anyone know?