Caution when providing wire transfer information

[theken]

Over the past weekend, I received an offer from a new TRF member (0 posts) for a watch I listed FS on TRF. I accepted the offer and provided references for the buyer who apparently joined TRF the same day so that he could send me a PM.
He responded via PM that my references (http://50.30.33.71/~trfcom/search.php?searchid=4106022) checked out to his satisfaction and asked for my wire transfer information.
I asked for his email address to email the information directly to him. Since sending by bank account information on Saturday, I have not heard from this person and he has not responded to my emails.
In the future, I will require contact information and references prior to releasing my confidential bank information.
I would like to know what other TRF members think about this situation.
Should I post his TRF user id in this thread to warn others about a potential scammer?

[Numismatist]

First of all, I have an extra bank account for this purpose that I keep $10 in. That way, should they abscond with my bank info, all they get is $10.

Definately get all data you can on a buyer before giving up your info. You have more to loose - either your watch or your entire account balance or both.

[DAVIDSW]

Mark,
I usually require them to send me their information first before sending my wire information and I try to give them a phone call as well.

Regards
DavidSW

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by DAVIDSW

Mark,
I usually require them to send me their information first before sending my wire information and I try to give them a phone call as well.

Regards
DavidSW

Only after I establish that "human connection" do i send them my wire info.

[Matdaytona]

Mark post his user id if he has an issue he can defend himself

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Matdaytona

Mark post his user id if he has an issue he can defend himself

Geez, give the guy the benefits of the doubt before exposing him as a potential scammer.

There could be millions of reasons why he hasn't got back to the OP.

[Andad]

We have a section on the Forum where potential buyers or sellers can ask for a heads up on each other - why not use it??

Buyers/Sellers "Who's Who" ?!?!

Preferably before you begin the transaction.

[onkyo]

He can only deposit money into your account with that information. Though backing out of a deal after information has been exchanged is very bad form.

[Numismatist]

Originally Posted by onkyo

He can only deposit money into your account with that information. Though backing out of a deal after information has been exchanged is very bad form.

True, except that some scammers have access to the ACH system, they can pay you, take delivery of the watch, and then reverse ACH the money back out. Unless you verify with the bank that is was a wire rather than an ACH, you're out the watch and the money.

[Rotorhead]

Not familiar with the ACH system, can anyone explain?

[Dripp]

ACH is the automated clearing house for electronic transactions. For example, when you pay your utility bill online at their website, they will debit your account via ach. Another example is when you give your gym authorization to automatically withdraw money from your account each month, the do that with ach. So basically anyone with an ach account can initiate debits if they have your account and routing numbers.

[Numismatist]

Originally Posted by Dripp

ACH is the automated clearing house for electronic transactions. For example, when you pay your utility bill online at their website, they will debit your account via ach. Another example is when you give your gym authorization to automatically withdraw money from your account each month, the do that with ach. So basically anyone with an ach account can initiate debits if they have your account and routing numbers.

Yes, absolutely true. Unless you specifically check with your bank that the money came in by wire; then it can be taken back out anytime by the sender. So you can't just look at your statement online, see the deposit, and think it's all set to ship.

Also, anyone with your routing, name, and bank account and access to the ACH system (relatively easy) can take all your money and disappear before it's discovered. If you happened to ship the watch before checking, then you're out that as well.

Be very careful and you really should have a wire account with very little in it for this purpose.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Numismatist

Yes, absolutely true. Unless you specifically check with your bank that the money came in by wire; then it can be taken back out anytime by the sender. So you can't just look at your statement online, see the deposit, and think it's all set to ship.

Also, anyone with your routing, name, and bank account and access to the ACH system (relatively easy) can take all your money and disappear before it's discovered. If you happened to ship the watch before checking, then you're out that as well.

Be very careful and you really should have a wire account with very little in it for this purpose.

There's something I'm not sure I understand. If anyone with an ACH account can debit your account for money (like a utility company or the gym, etc.), then what difference does it make if he sends you a wire? If he has ACH access and your account number couldn't he still debit your account for that money, assuming the cash is still in the account?

Thanks.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

There's something I'm not sure I understand. If anyone with an ACH account can debit your account for money (like a utility company or the gym, etc.), then what difference does it make if he sends you a wire? If he has ACH access and your account number couldn't he still debit your account for that money, assuming the cash is still in the account?

Thanks.

No...Absolutely not.

[joli160]

In Europe it's a bit easier, I do all my banking online, wiring the money will take less than an hour (in the NL) for the recipient to have it on his account. This transfer is irreversible but when buying I do need the sellers name and account number. No risk for the seller at all and no paypal and credit card hassle, which i find very inconvenient.
The seller will ship than the same day.

[JUSTROLEXES]

Originally Posted by theken

Over the past weekend, I received an offer from a new TRF member (0 posts) for a watch I listed FS on TRF. I accepted the offer and provided references for the buyer who apparently joined TRF the same day so that he could send me a PM.
He responded via PM that my references (http://50.30.33.71/~trfcom/search.php?searchid=4106022) checked out to his satisfaction and asked for my wire transfer information.
I asked for his email address to email the information directly to him. Since sending by bank account information on Saturday, I have not heard from this person and he has not responded to my emails.
In the future, I will require contact information and references prior to releasing my confidential bank information.
I would like to know what other TRF members think about this situation.
Should I post his TRF user id in this thread to warn others about a potential scammer?

Mark it is best to ask as many questions as you can and always play safe, in 95% of the cases that happens when the buyer changes his mind and don't want to do the deal and there is always that 5% anyway
as few other members mentioned, if you can have 2 accounts that is a good way, you provide A account and as soon as you receive the funds into A you can then transfer it to the other B account.
Try to know who you're dealing with as we don't leave in a perfect world.
and make sure what you're receiving is a bank wire and not a deposit, also match the name of the incoming wire with the name of the buyer and his info.

it is almost impossible after you receive a wire to have the fund taken out of your account, and in your case nothing could be done just by having that info...
Providing his user ID won't help as it will take 2 minutes to get a new ID and new email ...

[2th Dr]

So what's the minimal amount of info one should provide to the buyer to receive a wire transfer?

[jnmarshall]

For the life of me I do not understand why people here risk using wire transfers or ACH exchanges. I also don't understand why sellers don't use safer options designed for these transactions like Paypal or Square. And when they do some, not all, violate the TOS. Its a mystery to me.

[Numismatist]

Ask the sellers how helpful Paypal is...

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by jnmarshall

For the life of me I do not understand why people here risk using wire transfers or ACH exchanges. I also don't understand why sellers don't use safer options designed for these transactions like Paypal or Square. And when they do some, not all, violate the TOS. Its a mystery to me.

Simply because a wire transfer is the safest way to receive money.

And Ken, as far as giving out "confidential" account information you do that every time you write a check.

[masterserg]

Out of ignorance, aren't you exposing the same information when you cut a check to pay bills (routing / acct #)?

[Kringkily]

yeah but you also know who you're sending it to and where you can find those people. In this case it's a random person out there with your information.

[Rolex Junky]

What really shocked me was the story of the scammer that returned a wrench of equal weight as the watch he had bought and subsequently filed a claim with paypal requesting a full refund; or as others have stated ACH's the payment. Scary stuff. I wonder how some of you sellers can sleep at night. Thank God for insurance.

Pesonally if I can not get in my car; drive over to the buyer/ seller and if need be beat the living crap out of him to get my money or item back I pass on an offer.

[Kringkily]

lol wrench that is low, god the length people go to to scam others of money. I remember on another forum, there was a PI who went out of his way to help veteran forum members find scammers. It was funny to see how the person reacted when they got a personal phone call to their home asking if "so and so" lives here and that the cops have been informed about their scamming business. One was a kid who scammed another member out of like 2000 by sending him a bunch of random car parts in a box with a bogus return address and refused to respond. A quick call to his parents house really angered him and he was scared people could actually find him. Eventually his parents made him pay back to money but it does make you wonder who you are dealing with.

[dieseldragon]

Originally Posted by theken

Over the past weekend, I received an offer from a new TRF member (0 posts) for a watch I listed FS on TRF. I accepted the offer and provided references for the buyer who apparently joined TRF the same day so that he could send me a PM.
He responded via PM that my references (http://50.30.33.71/~trfcom/search.php?searchid=4106022) checked out to his satisfaction and asked for my wire transfer information.
I asked for his email address to email the information directly to him. Since sending by bank account information on Saturday, I have not heard from this person and he has not responded to my emails.
In the future, I will require contact information and references prior to releasing my confidential bank information.
I would like to know what other TRF members think about this situation.
Should I post his TRF user id in this thread to warn others about a potential scammer?

Personally, I won't respond to 0 post people. No offence, but every time I have listed a watch, the first people to respond are always those with no posts, which to me, does not make them serious buyers. I have 2 Omega for sale and the first 3 enquiries were all 0 posts offering to buy immediately.

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by dieseldragon

Personally, I won't respond to 0 post people. No offence, but every time I have listed a watch, the first people to respond are always those with no posts, which to me, does not make them serious buyers. I have 2 Omega for sale and the first 3 enquiries were all 0 posts offering to buy immediately.

I've joined other forums just to buy stuff, not to talk. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I got snubbed by a 'trusted seller', when I had around 70 posts. I'd think you'd give those people a chance to prove they're serious, at least. I know I was up until the seller wouldn't even bother to tell me what year the watch was made. It kind of sucks that I have to resort to ebay if I want to buy online just because I discovered this forum after I started buying Rolexes.

[Danex]

Originally Posted by Andelain

I've joined other forums just to buy stuff, not to talk. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I got snubbed by a 'trusted seller', when I had around 70 posts. I'd think you'd give those people a chance to prove they're serious, at least. I know I was up until the seller wouldn't even bother to tell me what year the watch was made. It kind of sucks that I have to resort to ebay if I want to buy online just because I discovered this forum after I started buying Rolexes.

I've purchased two watches thus far from DAVIDSW, and the first one with very few or no posts under my belt. As a buyer it's scary sending $ to a stranger. Now I have perspective of what it like to be a seller and their respective fears. I see why sellers prefer to email rather than PM, and why a phone conversation is also good for honest business.

Thanks to Davidsw for helping me when I could have been a ?&*!~.

[locutus49]

Good info. But I avoid telephone calls as they provide no hard evidence should a transaction go bad and you seek legal redress. I try to keep everything in writing.

Originally Posted by Danex

I've purchased two watches thus far from DAVIDSW, and the first one with very few or no posts under my belt. As a buyer it's scary sending $ to a stranger. Now I have perspective of what it like to be a seller and their respective fears. I see why sellers prefer to email rather than PM, and why a phone conversation is also good for honest business.

Thanks to Davidsw for helping me when I could have been a ?&*!~.

[CoolRich59]

Originally Posted by Dripp

ACH is the automated clearing house for electronic transactions. For example, when you pay your utility bill online at their website, they will debit your account via ach. Another example is when you give your gym authorization to automatically withdraw money from your account each month, the do that with ach. So basically anyone with an ach account can initiate debits if they have your account and routing numbers.

As as noob, i'm trying to learn all i can before "gwtting my feet wet". This is good info to have. Thanks for the post.

[blixorb]

Funny, I was wondering about many of the questions posted/answered here when I saw some of the folks who's items I am curious about!

I've never spent more than about $200 on a watch - out of sheer conservatism/ignorance (my dad wore a Citizen the City gave him, valued at all of $50, for YEARs), mind you. This year was, financially, 'a good one' and now I have the bug.

I'm not much of a shopper or collector- I find what I want, and buy it.

So, how do I make myself known, when I really don't have the time to engage in lots of conversations?

;)