Lost GMT 1675 Deal ?

[TempoKing]

Although there are some issues with this watch
I made an offer to buy a GMT 1675 for sale here
and the seller accepted my offer.

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=187598

My problem is that
The seller does not have any feedback in this forum
and he will not send first and get paid after delivery.

As he does not know anyone that knows me so he can
feel comfortable in order to send first

Do any of you know him so I can "comfortably" send him my money first ?

TRF ID Kevin5
Name: Kevin O'Dell

I would appreciate your views & feedback so he and I can make a deal ...OR..no deal.

[kyle L]

I saw that too...

[therolexguy]

I know you but I don't know him. Sorry...I trust you though!

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Although there are some issues with this watch
I made an offer to buy a GMT 1675 for sale her
and he accepted my offer.

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=187598

The seller does not have any feedback in this forum
and he will not send first and get paid after delivery.
Fine 'till now

As he does not know anyone that knows me so he can
feel comfortable in order to send first

Do any of you know him so I can "comfortably" send him my money first ?

TRF ID Kevin5
Name Kevin O'Dell

I would appreciate your views & feedback so he and I can make a deal ...OR..no deal.

Maybe the guy believe all greeks have finacial problems.

If he don't want to deal with you (it's easy for him to check you out and find you are one of the best) I guess you
will have no problem to get another deal my friend.

[greekbum]

On ebay and on forums if a seller has no feedback I do not buy.The risks are to high no matter how good of a deal it may be. The only exception would be if I had strong feedback and a good standing in the watch community and the seller was willing to send the watch 1st and then get paid. You have this so...............

[springer]

Originally Posted by greekbum

On ebay and on forums if a seller has no feedback I do not buy.The risks are to high no matter how good of a deal it may be. The only exception would be if I had strong feedback and a good standing in the watch community and the seller was willing to send the watch 1st and then get paid. You have this so...............

Totally agree with you Greek. I've had a couple of sellers send me watches first before I sent payment. Be careful out there!

[Nicko]

Are you kidding me Anastasios? No way in hell. Sorry.

[dnagwhogas]

No feedback/reference? Screw it. Whether it's 10 dollars or 10 thousand dollars. I'll pass. (I do not know the seller....sorry, no help here)

[moviefreak]

Who is crazy enough not to trust Anastasios...
Or smart enough not to mess with him...

[koc]

You can pay via paypal , and paypal will protect you if you get scammed .

[rolexpawn]

I would pass, and work with a known solid TRF seller, that way you will not get and loose money. No hassle, no nightmares, no problems.

[TempoKing]

Thank you all ..too insignificant of purchase.. to worry about it.

[Kanger]

I have been in similar situations as well when buying from people with no history and no references. It is a tough situation because sometimes the guy is just too hesitant to ship without being paid, regardless of how popular of a buyer/seller you are. You need to exercise your judgment, and of course you didn't need me to tell you that. I always insist on shipping first and that I will pay them upon receipt, but the couple of times the seller refused I have walked away or have paid the money and asked for scan of driver license if I feel like the person is legitimate. All judgment based which I am sure you Anastasios has much of after years in the business :)

[ffighter556]

There are several buyers and sellers here including Tempoking that I would send my watch to without payment first. We have all been newbies here, I probably would not have sent my watch back then without payment.....If you are honestly selling something you get paid first in most cases, especially on the internet as a rule of thumb.

[Andad]

Anastasios,

IMO if he has no acceptable references or +ve feedback then - no deal unless by your rules.

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Although there are some issues with this watch
I made an offer to buy a GMT 1675 for sale here
and the seller accepted my offer.

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=187598

My problem is that
The seller does not have any feedback in this forum
and he will not send first and get paid after delivery.

As he does not know anyone that knows me so he can
feel comfortable in order to send first

Do any of you know him so I can "comfortably" send him my money first ?

TRF ID Kevin5
Name: Kevin O'Dell

I would appreciate your views & feedback so he and I can make a deal ...OR..no deal.

My thoughts;

1) He is unknown here.... does he have any feedback/references on E bay Timezone or Watchnet?

2) I'm my opinion you should have figured all this out BEFORE you made a firm offer to buy the watch. he may be very legitimate and in fact YOU are the flake!

3) It is customary for the funds to be sent before the watch is. Buy from any trusted seller here on TRF and you will have to pay first and get the watch after the seller receives your money.. so there is NOTHING unusual or suspicious about that.

4) IMHO if you back out the deal you have harmed him and as far as I am concerned you are the bad guy here... again YOU SHOULD HAVE FIGURED ALL THIS OUT BEFORE YOU MADE A FIRM OFFER TO BUY causing him to possibly pass up other legitimate offers to honor his acceptance of yours.

Just all food for thought....

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by Newportkrieger

My thoughts;

1) He is unknown here.... does he have any feedback/references on E bay Timezone or Watchnet?

2) I'm my opinion you should have figured all this out BEFORE you made a firm offer to buy the watch. he may be very legitimate and in fact YOU are the flake!

3) It is customary for the funds to be sent before the watch is. Buy from any trusted seller here on TRF and you will have to pay first and get the watch after the seller receives your money.. so there is NOTHING unusual or suspicious about that.

4) IMHO if you back out the deal you have harmed him and as far as I am concerned you are the bad guy here... again YOU SHOULD HAVE FIGURED ALL THIS OUT BEFORE YOU MADE A FIRM OFFER TO BUY causing him to possibly pass up other legitimate offers to honor his acceptance of yours.

Just all food for thought....

The part where I asked him to send first... is when I could NOT
verify anything about him... even his cell phone is not in his name
- I have send money before to members without feedback in the forum
- Members I could verify much about.

About me being a Flake..? I bet your entire group of ONE believes that.

Message to the other TRF members:
You can back out of any deal when certain red flags are raised
only a stupid person will knowingly send money without concrete proof
about the legitimacy of the seller...just because an offer was made
There are other important details to be "ironed-out".

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

The part where I asked him to send first... is when I could NOT
verify anything about him... even his cell phone is not in his name
- I have send money before to members without feedback in the forum
- Members I could verify much about.

About me being a Flake..? I bet your entire group of ONE believes that.

Message to the other TRF members:
You can back out of any deal when certain red flags are raised
only a stupid person will knowingly send money without concrete proof
about the legitimacy of the seller...just because an offer was made
There are other important details to be "ironed-out".

1) The guy has 19 total posts here on TRF and you chose to ignore that when you made your offer? That was the first RED FLAG plain as day to everyone here and should have had you doing due diligence BEFORE YOU MADE THE OFFER. I see a lot of nice watches/good deals go un taken here and on other forums because the seller has just a few posts. A review of ALL the sellers posts indicate the guy was unsure about the watch he is selling and was here asking questions to authenticate the watch; He could be a newbie OR he could be a con artist trying to get some poor sucker excited about the watch when it gets put up for sale at a later time at a very good price. $5000 for a gilt 1675 and corroborating RSC papers is a very good deal but not quite too good to be true. All this could be the behavior of a very sophisticated scammer and deduced from looking at the seller's 19 posts here in TRF in totality.

2) Based on ALL the transactions you have done here on TRF's alone (yes I looked at your feedback) you should have known better!!!!!!!

3)Your initial post made NO MENTION of the fact that his cell phone was not in his name. Whose name is it in? Most cell phones are unlisted numbers.

4) You made no mention of and I assume did not do the research Kyle L did do, to find the guy on a couple of other forums where he has successfully completed transactions.

5) My point is that you should have done your homework on the seller BEFORE you made a firm offer not after. Backing out of a transaction because you did not do your homework until after your offer was accepted is always a "Flaky" thing to do. That does not mean you should do business with someone you don't trust. NEVER DO THAT.

6) Understand that in a more formal business setting you could be held liable for damages for not completing a transaction you legally entered. In this situation there was an offer and acceptance, the essence of a legally binding contract. The courts would tell you that you should have done your due diligence before you entered into a contract , not after. All business transactions pivot on two major principles; "buyer beware" and the "sanctity of a contract" neither of which were given their due in this deal.

7) I would probably not have even made an offer to the guy with his 19 postings here. That said, if I was interested in his watch, I would have told him of my concern BEFORE I made an offer to see what he could do to allay my suspicions/fears or to provide me with sufficient protection to THEN make an offer.

I have refused to sell or required a fed funds/International wire only from people with just a few postings and presence here on TRF when I have been looking to sell a watch. I will never sell a watch internationally or to a questionable buyer using paypal as an unscrupulous buyer can use that system to rip a seller off.

I understand your concerns and as I said I would not do business with the guy based on what we do and don't know about him BUT, I would have made that decision before making an offer so yes, making an offer, then doing your homework and backing out does in fact make you a flake in my "group of one's" opinion. The fact that non of us would enter a transaction with the guy and don't think you should (yes I would tell you not to do the deal) does NOT excuse you from the fact that you should have done your research and come to that conclusion BEFORE you made an offer.

I'm not trying to be difficult and would advise the OP not to complete the transaction as well, but I am not going to patronize a fellow TRF member and ignore facts on both sides!

[Ebruner]

If it doesn't feel right don't do it.


-Eddie

[Grissom]

Originally Posted by Ebruner

If it doesn't feel right don't do it.


-Eddie

That is the bottom line, however, Steve does bring up a good point. If one is considering making a purchase from someone wherein (for whatever reason) they feel that the Seller needs to ship first, before payment is made, one brings that up right away, along with the offer, stating whatever terms the buyer wants, and that way, before any offer and acceptance is made, all aspects of the sale (from the buyer's perspective) have been laid out on the table, again, right in the beginning of the negotiation.....That is what I would do (after reading this thread), and that is how I would like to be treated, if on the selling end.....

A nice reminder, to consider all aspects of a potential buy or sale, and lay them all out on the table, from the very beginning....that way, the opportunity for any accidental misunderstandings can be minimized....

Not sure there is actually a bad guy in all this, simply unintentional "less that optimal communication".......and based on the Buyer assuming that the Seller would think the same way as the Buyer, which might make sense to even the seller, if brought up in the very beginning.

Thanks for sharing this experience.....reading this will help me in future transactions, both as a buyer or seller.

[Andad]

Is it written somewhere that the seller sends the item after payment?

IMO this is open to discussion after an offer to purchase is made unless the offer states that payment must be made first.

I have read Kevin5's ad and don't see where payment is specified as being 'up front'?

This requirement of payment first as standard has always surprised me.
I have been sent items by Forum members before I processed the payment.

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Is it written somewhere that the seller sends the item after payment?

IMO this is open to discussion after an offer to purchase is made unless the offer states that payment must be made first.

I have read Kevin5's ad and don't see where payment is specified as being 'up front'?

This requirement of payment first as standard has always surprised me.
I have been sent items by Forum members before I processed the payment.

Honestly, how many private party watches have you purchased from a stranger that had the watch shippped to you before you payed for it?

[blackout]

Well just by looking up your feed back Anastasios. I would send you my watch first! But, I would Not on the kevin guy! Sorry Kevin no offence or anything personal to you. "If" you are a cool guy.

[Andad]

Twice, both by Forum members since I joined in Nov 2006.

Total value of the two Rolex watches was over 9K. One member gave me the watch while I was face to face but I couldn't transfer the funds until I returned to Oz and the other in the States sent the watch to me while he was checking out freight costs so that he saved a trip back to the freight company and this would also get the Rolex to me just a bit sooner.

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Twice, both by Forum members since I joined in Nov 2006.

Total value of the two Rolex watches was over 9K. One member gave me the watch while I was face to face but I couldn't transfer the funds until I returned to Oz and the other in the States sent the watch to me while he was checking out freight costs so that he saved a trip back to the freight company and this would also get the Rolex to me just a bit sooner.

And how many watches have you purchased private party over the years with two coming before you made payment? Just to be fair....2 out of 2? 2 out of 10? 2 out of 20?

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by Newportkrieger

And how many watches have you purchased private party over the years with two coming before you made payment? Just to be fair....2 out of 2? 2 out of 10? 2 out of 20?

IMHO so is the normal way the seller get his money before he ship the watch. But in this case it have been very easy
to check out the buyer and get a hint how he handle his deals. I can get the sellers behaviour because he have never
sold a watch to a stranger (I guess) so it's not easy for him just to ship it away. For us that have been around for
some time $10K is no big deal but that isn't the same for everyone. If the seller been ripped off maybe that will get him
broke and he are not willing to take the chance.

So if you not feel safe, seller or buyer, just cancel the deal.

Just my 2 cents.

[caballero]

Theres no way i would send my $xxxxx amount rolex to soomeone before it was paid for. Far far too risky. Even if you appear to be forum royalty.

[Jocke]

I was treated the same when I would buy a 9 / 16 wrench, a year ago. After a lot of discussion so I sent the money
first and guess whether I was glad when it was a Rolex in the package.

It must have been something wrong, but I never heard of the seller.

[stephentross]

Offer made and offer accepted.

To me that means you send him money and he sends you watch. Not the other way around.

How about escrow. If both of you did not come to terms before you made an offer, which you should have noted you wanted the watch first before offer was made.

Use an escrow service. everyone wins

[dpkong]

In a perfect world where everyone could be trusted, I would love to have the watch sent first with a 3 day inspection period. If for any reason I am not satisfied with it, I would return the watch in it's original condition and pay for all shipping costs to and fro. Payment is actually an instantaneous transaction, especially when done online.

Maybe that's why I have bought my watches locally where I could see it first and be completely satisfied before handing over cash.