For the photographers around: Kodak's demise?

[masterserg]

Since there are lots of photo enthusiasts around here, this is a very interesting article from The Economist about present sitiuations @ Kodak and Fuji:

http://www.economist.com/node/21542796

[bayerische]

It's very sad if Kodak was to meet the same fate as Agfa.

[Hooper]

Sad sad day, hopefully they can restructure !!

[GradyPhilpott]

I've read some articles that indicate that Kodak has quite a lot of assets and that they are likely to come out of the restructuring on their feet, but of course, that remains to be seen.

Kodak has not been agile enough to keep coming up with competitive digital cameras and services. If they can reverse that trend, they will have a chance.

[masterserg]

It was bad enough when they sold their sensor business (you know they made the sensor for the Leica M9) ...

Also of interest, Thom Hogan always has some very educated opinions (www.bythom.com).

[bayerische]

Didn't know they sold the sensor business... Who bought it?

Knew they made the sensor for the M8 and M9. And absolutely love the sensor.

[masterserg]

An M&A firm called Platinum Equity.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by masterserg

An M&A firm called Platinum Equity.

OK, but is it still under the name "Kodak"?

[masterserg]

Nope ... it is called Truesense Imaging now.

http://www.platinumequity.com/Truesense-Imaging

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by masterserg

Nope ... it is called Truesense Imaging now.

http://www.platinumequity.com/Truesense-Imaging

Allright!
Thanks for the info!

Well, thankfully the sensor technology part might be secure then. For future M's!

How much dough did Kodak get for it?

[Route 66]

I can't say that I'm surprised at this news. With the advent of digital photography, it was just a matter of time before companies that derived most of their revenue from film would be adversely affected.

Back when I was shooting mostly black and white photos, I always used either Plus-X or Tri-X films; both made by Kodak.

Sad news indeed.

[masterserg]

I think the financial details were not disclosed.

In fact they make most high end sensors, Hasselblad included ...

[masterserg]

Yeah, but look at Fuji ... They diversified into new businesses, they are coming out with killer products and are doing great ...

Plagiarizing Thom Hogan's analysis, this is an interesting quote from Fuji's boss (from that same article):

"Mr Komori says he feels “regret and emotion” about the plight of his “respected competitor”. Yet he hints that Kodak was complacent, even when its troubles were obvious. The firm was so confident about its marketing and brand that it tried to take the easy way out, says Mr Komori.

In the 2000s it tried to buy ready-made businesses, instead of taking the time and expense to develop technologies in-house. And it failed to diversify enough, says Mr Komori: “Kodak aimed to be a digital company, but that is a small business and not enough to support a big company.”

Makes you wonder about Nikon's future indeed.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by masterserg

Makes you wonder about Nikon's future indeed.

Nikon?

Nikon was a lens company long before entering the camera business and they are highly respected in the industry and among photographers alike.

What makes you put Nikon in the same boat with Kodak?

[masterserg]

I wasn't comparing nikon with kodak. I was just thinking about them as a camera maker in the context of fuji's ceo comment (digital industry not large enough).

[GradyPhilpott]

Well, Kodak despite their leadership in developing digital camera technology have been producing mediocre cameras for quite some time, whereas Nikon and Canon are in a continual horse race for the bleeding edge of digital camera technology.

Nikon has suffered some setbacks recently at the hand of mother nature, but I don't they'll be exiting the business anytime soon.

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Well, Kodak despite their leadership in developing digital camera technology have been producing mediocre cameras for quite some time, whereas Nikon and Canon are in a continual horse race for the bleeding edge of digital camera technology.

Nikon has suffered some setbacks recently at the hand of mother nature, but I don't they'll be exiting the business anytime soon.

I absolutely agree. The problem though is that the industry itself is uncertain (according to the experts, which I am not) ... compacts are dead, the SLR market has no more room to grow, ILCs are hot now but will likely follow a similar pattern. Nikon needs to find a way to innovate, other than "hey I got video" ...

Well, I went completely OT here anyway ...

[azguy]

It's either evolution or dilution in corporate america today

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by masterserg

I absolutely agree. The problem though is that the industry itself is uncertain (according to the experts, which I am not) ... compacts are dead, the SLR market has no more room to grow, ILCs are hot now but will likely follow a similar pattern. Nikon needs to find a way to innovate, other than "hey I got video" ...

Well, I went completely OT here anyway ...

DSLR's have no more room to grow? Consumer DSLR's had record years two years running and they are deemed somewhat worthless every few years by newer technology. Those customers bought lenses and they have to go somewhere. So the money is in the glass but they can't be used unless you buy their bodies... its an annuity very few industries get to enjoy.

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

DSLR's have no more room to grow? Consumer DSLR's had record years two years running and they are deemed somewhat worthless every few years by newer technology. Those customers bought lenses and they have to go somewhere. So the money is in the glass but they can't be used unless you buy their bodies... its an annuity very few industries get to enjoy.

I do believe that there aren't many new DLSR users, especially with smaller / lighter ILCs emerging as they are ... yeah, there's repeat buying but unless there is some drastic innovation we'll see more and more shooters migrating to the NEX7 and the likes ... until the next new hot thing ...

Just quoting the experts here ... for example Thom Hogan (this from www.bythom.com):

"Let's do some back-of-the-envelope calculation here. Let's first assume that the overall camera market (compacts, mirrorless, and DSLRs) is going to be relatively flat for the next five years. After all, phones are nibbling at the bottom, and DSLRs have reached saturation. So we're talking about 115-120m units. Nikon grew Coolpix 8% and interchangeable lens cameras 10% in the past year, so let's just assume 8% overall unit growth.

See the problem? Nikon has about 18% of the overall camera market (23m out of 120m) at the moment. If they grow their unit volume 8% a year as they currently suggest, we get 20%, 22%, 25% for future annual market shares. One out of every four cameras sold would have to be a Nikon by 2014 for them to continue their current growth.

That's not impossible, but given the players in the market and the potential for both buyer burnout and product disenfranchisement, it seems a bit unlikely. Indeed, it's possible to envision a future where Nikon's unit volume drops but their market share grows.

As Komori-san hinted, it's not a big market. It has huge price pressures, too, so retaining margin is tough. This is a similar problem facing Nikon to that which faced Kodak. Which leads me to one of three possible conclusions: (1) we're seeing the zenith of Nikon in the next few years; (2) cameras need to be reinvented to an extent that it rekindles new purchasing; or (3) Nikon needs to find another market to play and grow in (that could be phones, but that seems unlikely).

So what does Nikon look like 10 years from now? Just the biggest fish in two ponds that are growing smaller? Or a fish that flies over land and finds a bigger pond? Here's hoping for flying fish."

[nowzen]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Well, Kodak despite their leadership in developing digital camera technology have been producing mediocre cameras for quite some time, whereas Nikon and Canon are in a continual horse race for the bleeding edge of digital camera technology.

I wouldn't call their cameras mediocre.

The cameras they produced were quite highly rated in most reviews but they were targeted to the lower end consumer market. By confining themselves to the Walmart crowd, they excluded themselves from the state-of-the-art big boys with the pro and prosumer digital cameras - effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by nowzen

I wouldn't call their cameras mediocre.

The cameras they produced were quite highly rated in most reviews but they were targeted to the lower end consumer market. By confining themselves to the Walmart crowd, they excluded themselves from the state-of-the-art big boys with the pro and prosumer digital cameras - effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

Doesn't that second paragraph define the term mediocre?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mediocre

[bewithabob]

The business model behind selling printed media has been under siege for decades. Another example of why a person, a brand, a company, a country needs visionary leadership…

[bayerische]

I think Kodak missed out, I remember the early Canon EOS 1 and Nikon F5 digital bodies, where Canon and Nikon cooperations with Kodak.

Instead Canon and Nikon started making their own sensors, and when the other (cheaper) route with CMOS instead of the CCD chip Kodak was producing.

Early professional Nikon and Canon dslr:





The imaging chip in the Leica M9 is extremely great. So sharp and the colors so natural. Sure it's not very good at high ISO, but that's uniformly true with CCD.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Instead Canon and Nikon started making their own sensors

That may have been true, but I'm almost certain that Nikon is now using sensors made by Sony to Nikon specifications.

I'm pretty certain that this is the case for at least the latest generation of 16MP sensors in the D7000 and the D4.

http://www.petapixel.com/2011/01/26/...sensor-within/

[bayerische]

Grady you are right, might be that Nikon never made their own sensors. Miss typed a bit there.

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Grady you are right, might be that Nikon never made their own sensors. Miss typed a bit there.

My D300 uses a Sony sensor as well. Ironically, Bayer interpolation used pretty much in all those sensors was invented by Kodak ... so basically they created and sharpened the axe that chopped their head so to speak....

[GradyPhilpott]

I believe that Kodak simply chose another path and rather than leading to the promised land, it was a direct route into to the pit of hell.

I really think they'll emerge from this and one would hope get on the stick and start competing instead of resting on their laurels.

Kodak's portfolio of patents is worth a bundle alone.

They have a lot to build on.

[GradyPhilpott]

Here's one view:

Unable to keep pace with a lightning shift from film to digital technology over the last decade, Kodak said it has secured $950 million in financing from Citigroup Inc., and expects to be able to operate its business during bankruptcy reorganization and pay employees.

The long-awaited move to seek protection from its creditors is “a necessary step and the right thing to do for the future of Kodak,” Perez said.

[...]

One strength Kodak can take into a restructuring effort is its powerful brand name, said Eli Lehrer, who heads the nonprofit Heartland Institute’s Center on Finance, Insurance and Real Estate in Washington, D.C.

[...]

Kodak expects to complete its U.S.-based restructuring during 2013.

On its website, Kodak assured customers that the nearly $1 billion in debtor-in-possession financing would be sufficient to pay vendors, suppliers and other business partners in full for goods and services going forward.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...w9P_story.html

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/01/...or-bankruptcy/

[Pix]

Lots of mis management, they had their heads in the sand regarding digital, not just in the photography field but billions have been lost in the medical field, the amount of x-ray film they sold world wide was astronomical