Japanese F1 Results & discussion

[CEG]

Another numero uno on the podium this morning in Japan, in F1.. I shouldn't say it, but me thinks he's home and dry for the championship in his debut season..

I understand he's quite big stateside already too ?

Lewis.jpg

[frostie]

Congrats to hamilton

[Alcan]

And he's 12 points up on Alonzo now.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by Alcan

And he's 12 points up on Alonzo now.

On my calculations, just a finish next week where he is only a point behind Alonso (or better) - and he's home dry


When he was 16/17 I used to work with him (Hamilton) at the mercedes garage where I am still employed - he was always a lovely fella, with maturity well beyond his years.

I now pick up his car(s) for servicing etc as his Mum/Dad's house is just down the road from the dealership.

I will be pleased as punch for him if he pulls it off

[thomas311]

d'oh! as soon as i saw this thread i knew he'd won the race...

i have it recorded on my DVR and have yet to watch it. oh well, at least i wont be surprised by the ending.

it would be awesome if/when he could take the championship this year.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by thomas311

d'oh! as soon as i saw this thread i knew he'd won the race...

i have it recorded on my DVR and have yet to watch it. oh well, at least i wont be surprised by the ending.

it would be awesome if/when he could take the championship this year.

Still well, well worth the watch !!

[Claude]

Originally Posted by thomas311

d'oh! as soon as i saw this thread i knew he'd won the race...

i have it recorded on my DVR and have yet to watch it. oh well, at least i wont be surprised by the ending.

Don’t let that spoil it; this was the best race of the season. Absolutely dramatic, you will love it.

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by CEG

...I understand he's quite big stateside already too?

Unfortunately, F1 is hardly a blip on the sports radar screen here in the States.

This is NASCAR country -- the F1 race at Indy sucks.



The best F1 race around here is in Montreal.

[Lol-x]

Seems like there is a bit of a huge rift between Hamilton and Alonso.
Evidently Hamilton's father has tried to shake hands with Alonso's father on at least 3 occasions and Alonso's father has failed to raise his hand.
Anyway, Mark Webber is a sorry soul again, he was sure to get second when his co-team driver hit him from behind when of all things they were behind the pace car Incredible.
I saw the other driver physically sobbing against the wall in shame and disappointment.
Webber was scathing, and I think the TV audio was edited because of his profanity.
Anyway, more power to Hamilton (although he has enough already)

[Alcan]

So what was the deal with the Ferrari's starting on intermediates, and why weren't they penalized? I heard the "We weren't notified", but come on now. Every other team was.

[daunwaun]

Its all politics

[Lol-x]

Given that Ferrari started with intermediates, that was a breach of the rules. However, as the track remained wet throughout the entire race, Ferrari gained no benefit, in fact they suffered a detriment in having intermediate weather tyres for a wet track.
Accordingly, as there was no advantage to Ferrari there was no benefit.
I want to know why if McLaren has been found guilty of espionage, and its drivers have either knowingly or unknowingly used that technology (and it would seem given their positions they have benefited) why is only McLaren penalised and not it's drivers too. Even if the drivers are innocent, they have technically competed illegally by utilising stolen property from McLaren in the form of designs etc. I don't know.

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I want to know why if McLaren has been found guilty of espionage, and its drivers have either knowingly or unknowingly used that technology (and it would seem given their positions they have benefited) why is only McLaren penalised and not it's drivers too. Even if the drivers are innocent, they have technically competed illegally by utilising stolen property from McLaren in the form of designs etc. I don't know.

Steve, you're a lawyer - can you say "plea bargain"?

[Tripp11]

Originally Posted by CEG

Another numero uno on the podium this morning in Japan, in F1.. I shouldn't say it, but me thinks he's home and dry for the championship in his debut season..

I understand he's quite big stateside already too ?

Attachment 11304

The car enthusiast sites I frequent would be up in arms about this thread title - how about a spoiler alert next time?!

Spent all day tailgating and attending the Indianapolis Colts game and will watch the race later tonight - of course, now I know who won.

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by Tripp11

The car enthusiast sites I frequent would be up in arms about this thread title - how about a spoiler alert next time?!

Spent all day tailgating and attending the Indianapolis Colts game and will watch the race later tonight - of course, now I know who won.

[Lol-x]

I changed the title of the thread, just in case some guys don't know the results yet and haven't seen the race, I don't want to spoil their fun.
I hope this is O.K.

[Gedanken]

Well Dan, I'll trust your judgement if you know the guy in person, but I haven't been a big fan since Melbourne. At the post-race conference he spoke about forcing Felipe Massa into an error when Massa clearly tripped over himself, and I've taken everything the lad's said with a pinch of salt since then.

On top of that, with all the bleating that both Hamilton and Alonso have made to the press about each other, right now I wouldn't be to sorry to see either of them leave the grid. At least Alonso shut up a month ago and went back to doing his talking on the track. I can't believe Hamilton's still wailing to the press about the first lap of Spa - he was half a car length behind, Alonso had the racing line, and if he doesn't want to deal with that kind of thing he doesn't have any business being in that car.

Between the antics of those two plus the idiocy of Mike Coughlan and Ron Dennis, this season's been a black comedy of errors and an utterly forgettable one unless you're into the Young and Restless.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Well Dan, I'll trust your judgement if you know the guy in person, but I haven't been a big fan since Melbourne. At the post-race conference he spoke about forcing Felipe Massa into an error when Massa clearly tripped over himself, and I've taken everything the lad's said with a pinch of salt since then.

On top of that, with all the bleating that both Hamilton and Alonso have made to the press about each other, right now I wouldn't be to sorry to see either of them leave the grid. At least Alonso shut up a month ago and went back to doing his talking on the track. I can't believe Hamilton's still wailing to the press about the first lap of Spa - he was half a car length behind, Alonso had the racing line, and if he doesn't want to deal with that kind of thing he doesn't have any business being in that car.

Between the antics of those two plus the idiocy of Mike Coughlan and Ron Dennis, this season's been a black comedy of errors and an utterly forgettable one unless you're into the Young and Restless.

Appreciate your views, but they are certainly not shared by the majority of people over here !! In my personal experience he is a very level headed chap, hey maybe he'll change slightly (anyone would) but thus far I think he's handling the pressure/press very well

[dman]

In all honesty I would think he would be held in high regard in his own country but in many F1 circles that is not the case.

in those he is a talented driver no doubt but also a spoon fed media darling pompous ass that needs to be reminded weekly to say we not I. Watch or read any pressconference of his and you will see the word I three times as the other drivers combined.

I think he a tremendous driver but I think has miles to go off the track growing up.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by dman

spoon fed media darling pompous ass

I would say, VERY harsh, but there.

[dman]

Originally Posted by CEG

I would say, VERY harsh, but there.

Maybe harsh, maybe not seeing through rose colored glasses. Just read the transcripts of the press conferences. Lewis is a phenomenal driver, especially with his lack of experience.

But I am sort of amazed he has not broken his arm while patting himself on the back, just MHO.

[Gedanken]

F1's gotten boring thanks to Mad Max Mosley's misguided attempts at changing F1. He wants to make F1 safer but reduces grip by introducing grooves. He wants to increase overtaking but shifts the emphasis from mechanical to aerodynamic grip. As a result these days, we get a high-speed procession instead of a real race except when it rains. Who put this failed one-time team owner in charge? Jean-Marie Balestre was a jackass, but at least he knew racing.

Nothing against any of the present drivers, but it's not the same anymore. Up till the early nineties, we had a couple of world champions on the track at the same time duking it out. Back when we had Prost, Senna, Mansell and Piquet on the track, we had real races, and even then they didn't quite stack up to great battles like Villeneuve/Arnoux at Dijon in 1979. For most of the past decade we've had one world champion taking all the goodies and the rest of the grid letting him do it. If we had the supply of real racers like we used to have, many people would now be saying "Michael who?". After Hakkinen's departure, Alonso was the first driver who didn't just roll over and expose his belly to Schumacher, and that took long enough.

There's a promising new development at the moment, involving splitting the cars' rear wings into left and right sections, which promises to reduce the turbulence left in the wake of the cars and thereby bring back some real racing. There's also been talk of bringing back slicks. If Mad Max had any sense he'd give both the OK, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Tripp11]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

There's a promising new development at the moment, involving splitting the cars' rear wings into left and right sections, which promises to reduce the turbulence left in the wake of the cars and thereby bring back some real racing. There's also been talk of bringing back slicks. If Mad Max had any sense he'd give both the OK, but I'm not holding my breath.

I concur. Reduce driver mechanical aides, reduce downforce, run slicks again and make the driver more important than the engineering on the car....but I supposed that would go against the grain of everything F1 is all about.

I'm hopeful the ICS can make some tweaks to their aero package in the off season and tighten up the racing on the 1.5 mile ovals.

[Flyjet601]

I dont care what the politics, ego's, or any other silliness that goes along with F1. This sport will always be a soap opera.....big bucks involved.

But to take one of those cars, more like rockets, and whip it around a track at hyper speeds is truely amazing. These drivers are amazing.......

Congrats to Hamilton to do it in his first year.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Flyjet601

But to take one of those cars, more like rockets, and whip it around a track at hyper speeds is truely amazing. These drivers are amazing.......

Amen to that! My first live F1 experience was Montreal about 20 years ago. Got settled into the stands near the pit exit and a fast left-right on the Saturday just before 2 or 3 cars passed. Wow... look at how fast they are...

Then a minute or so later they came around again. That was when I realized they'd just been warming up the tires the first time around. Absolutely unbelievable! It's hard to comprehend that a human mind could work that fast, they had to be thinking 3 turns ahead because in a blink they were there and gone.

I'll paraphrase something I read years ago. "Driving really, really fast is when what's about to happen has already been decided. You're just along for the ride now."

[Flyjet601]

Originally Posted by Alcan

Amen to that! My first live F1 experience was Montreal about 20 years ago. Got settled into the stands near the pit exit and a fast left-right on the Saturday just before 2 or 3 cars passed. Wow... look at how fast they are...

Then a minute or so later they came around again. That was when I realized they'd just been warming up the tires the first time around. Absolutely unbelievable! It's hard to comprehend that a human mind could work that fast, they had to be thinking 3 turns ahead because in a blink they were there and gone.

I'll paraphrase something I read years ago. "Driving really, really fast is when what's about to happen has already been decided. You're just along for the ride now."

The Canadian F1 race was great. My first race at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve was in '83 when Ricardo Palletti died in an accident at the start of the race, I think he hit the back of the Ferrari(cant recall the driver) anyway burst into flames...very bad.
I attended until about 2003.
To see the F1 cars live gives you an appreciation for the talents these drivers have.
If anyone questions the guts of these drivers, take a look at Spa in Belgium, and Eau Rouge..that famous part of the track. These guys go flat out.......unbelievable.

[watchloverdave]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

There's a promising new development at the moment, involving splitting the cars' rear wings into left and right sections, which promises to reduce the turbulence left in the wake of the cars and thereby bring back some real racing. There's also been talk of bringing back slicks. If Mad Max had any sense he'd give both the OK, but I'm not holding my breath.

They gotta do something. The current situation is nuts with passing being almost an impossible accomplishment unless the other guy is much slower or you take an unnecessary risk that might eliminate you both. These days, the race is pretty much over after qualifying. Where ever you end up on the starting grid is pretty much how you are going to finish barring someone else' serious miscue.

[Tomi]

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by tomijantunen

Gotta watch those "Flying Finns!"

[Gedanken]

It's harsh, Dan, but I've heard the same opinion from quite a few F1 fans and Daren's not wrong in reflecting that opinion.

McLaren were very wise right at the start to keep Hamilton from talking to the press because he does have a tendency to put himself in a bad light. Starting with the Melbourne press conference I mentioned earlier, he's out his foot in it quite a few times, e.g.:

- saying that his performance dropped because he cared more about McLaren than Alonso does
- ripping into Alonso for the Spa first corner incident when it was normal racing, taking it back when told to by McLaren, and then backtracking and going at it again
- openly saying that Alonso should go to Ferrari and leave McLaren to himself

On top of that, many pundits are not far off the truth in opining that Hamilton is McLaren's test-tube project, having brought him along since the age of 12. Hamilton's recent comments about his wanting Alonso to leave have not helped dispel that image.

The British press has not done Hamilton any favours whatsoever. They're as nationalisitic as any other country's media, and the British press coverage of Hamilton in comparison to Alonso justifies Daren's description IMHO - he's British, and he's their darling, as much as Alonso is the darling of the Spanish media.

All in all, conventional wisdom has always been that racing drivers need to shut up to the press and do their talking on the track, and young Hamilton would learn well from this. At the current rate, he's been shrink-wrapped, packaged and turned into F1's version of one of the Backstreet Boys.

Now my view may not be a popular one, but I've been watching F1 for just about 20 years now and I've seen enough to make up my own mind about who's who and what's what on the grid, and it's not really coming out in Hamilton's favour. If he is going to be the first rookie to win the WDC, you'd need to take into account how many rookies actually started with a championship-winning team. The closest we've come to that of late is Jacques Villeneuve, and even then Williams was on the downswing at a point where Renault were pulling out of F1. Sure, he's good, but if Hakkinen had joined McLaren in 1991 and Senna hadn't been there, or Raikonnen or Alonso had been with the top teams instead of Sauber and Minardi respectively, history might have all been different. I'm just advocating some perspective here.

Mind you, I'm no Schumacher fan, but the one thing I'll take my hat off to him for is that he went over to Ferrari and, working with some of his old crew like Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn, brought Ferrari out of the doldrums and made them a strong team again. I've got plenty to say about the guy's cheating ways, but at that I'll say that he's one helluva driver for what he's done for Ferrari. Schumacher has openly said that he emulated Senna's working style - Senna was known to keep his team well past midnight on testing days going working out how to best develop the car. Prost was known for what Murray Walker termed "mechanical sympathy", Black Jack Brabham built his own cars, and the Lotus mechanics had to unnecessarily change Jim Clark's brake pads between races because Graham Hill was feeling bad about going through them at four times the rate.

All of these all-time greats (yes, dare I say it, even Schumacher) didn't just get in, turn the wheel and stomp on the pedal - they were the complete package because they knew the cars as well as driving them. What with all of the electronic doohickies driving the car for the drivers these days, until I see Hamilton, Alonso or any of the others doing something of the sort, sorry, they're just short of special.