Asians and Watches, What the deal?

[leopardprey]

Now before this topic gets going, this topic is in no way meant to sound racial and biased, or cause stereotypes. And please no Racial comments. This is meant to be a serious economic/cultural thread.

What I am curious is why does it seem that our Asian Brothers (especially our brothers of Chinese ethnicity) are so much more into watches than the rest of us?

I mean I see photos of GTGs on other watch forums, where the majority are Asians. See photos of Watch Dinners put out by upscale brands in places like Australia and Canada, and again mostly Asians. Go to a book store in Asia, and about every type of Watch magazine and Watch book you can find is for sale. Seems like every week a Upscale brand is opening a new Botique in Asia/China. Probably most of the Upscale brands make more than half their profits these days in Asia. There are even some other watch forums I particpate in, where Chinese (from all over the world) outnumber non-Chinese by about a 5 to 1 ratio.

Look at the number of Botique from Upscale brands like VC, PP, UN, etc.. and there are double the number of botiques in Asia, than they have througout the rest of the world.

Switzerland exports about the the same dollar amount of watches to Hong Kong (with a pop. of 10 million) as they do do the USA (with a pop. of 300 million).

So why does it seem most serious collectors of upscale watches are Chinese? Is it more of a status thing? Is it just cause they are intersted in watches, more from a cultural point? And if so, why is the Asian Culture more into watches? More knowledgable about watches? What started the massive buying influx of fine mechanical watches in Asia?

(from a WIS veiwpoint, traveling to Hong Kong, Kualu Lumber, Bangkok, Shanghai, or Singapore is like going to Watch Heaven. I have actaully had a whole vacation in KL, doing nothing but checking out watches!)

[jasonbellevue]

Chad, here's an interesting read about Rolex and Asians.

Warning, it's a long one, hopefully it will give you an insight as to why Asians like Rolex watches. BUT, the more affluent ones are buying Patek Philippe and other more expensive ones these days.

From "Asian Auto" - Malaysia's foremost motor magazine.


If there is a kingdom of watches somewhere in the Swiss Alps, would its King be Rolex? I think not because the Europeans are not particularly partial to Rolex. However, if there is a kingdom of watches in Asia (near Hong Kong, Japan or Malaysia), its King will certainly be Rolex. This is because Asians are extremely fond of Rolex watches.

In fact, the Chinese have nicknames for certain models of Rolex watches and this privilege is not extended to other brands. A "Rolex Star" is a half-gold Rolex Datejust. A "Rolex King" refers to a solid gold Rolex, usually the Day-Date or President.

To the Asian towkay ("towkay" means "boss"), to have arrived means a Mercedes-Benz (or occasionally a Bee-Em) and the inevitable Rolex, preferably solid gold or at least half-gold. Every successful or wannabe successful businessman is wearing one - from the contractor to the CEO.

For a glimpse of the various models of Rolex watches without looking at a catalogue, just look around in a Chinese restaurant where these towkays yamseng (to wine Chinese style) and dine. Alternatively, take a drive up to our country's only casino (Genting) and hang around the baccarat or roulette tables. Time there seems to be told only by Rolex watches.

Rolex is of course Swiss in origin but I personally think they make watches specially for the Chinese. To start with, the model numbers of the more expensive Rolex watches favoured by the Chinese towkays are not offensive at all. The Chinese are very superstitious about certain numbers, particularly the number 4 which signifies death but they like 8 which connotes prosperity and 3 which is linked to long life.


The model number of the half-gold Datejust is 16233 which loosely translated into Chinese would mean "all the way easy long life". This model is much sought after by up-and-coming towkays. The model number of the solid gold Day-Date is 18238 which again loosely translated into Chinese would mean "prosper easily, long life and prosperity". This model is favoured by the arrived towkays. Alfa Romeo can learn a lesson here from Rolex. Imagine calling a car a "164" which means "all the way die" to the Chinese.


Rolex watches are designed to be extremely ostentatious so that you can spot one on a wrist a mile away. This is how the Asian businessman wants it, the perfect reflection of his wealth and the respect he should be accorded. It is known to work wonders in Chinese restaurants worldwide. Flash a Rolex on your wrist and you are assured of a better table and clockwork service.

The founder of Rolex was Hans Wilsdorf and if he had been a conformist, this article is being written about Wilsdorf watches instead. It has been the tradition among Swiss watchmakers to name their products after themselves. For example, Audemars Piquet is the name combination of Jules Audemars and Edouard Piquet. Patek Philippe combines Antoni Patek and Jean Adrien Philippe. Piaget is named after Yves Piaget while Vacheron Constantin is Francois Constantin & Jacques Vacheron.


However, Hans Wilsdorf wanted a name that was short and easy to pronounce. He did'nt like the sound of a "Wilsdorf" watch and for reasons best known to himself, he came up with the name "Rolex". Unknown to Hans at that time ( I am sure he had no idea as to the immense appeal of his watches to Asians), this word is actually very difficult for the Asian to pronounce. So therefore in this part of the world, everybody calls a Rolex a "Lolex". This proves that a rose by any other name is just as sweet.

With other brands of fine watches (Patek, Vacheron, Jaeger etc) it is possible to choose a model to suit the wearer's character and style. But not so with Rolex. The minute you put a Rolex on your wrist, you are at once transformed into a rich man by the unique flashiness of a Rolex timepiece. Some kind of instant richness. Very comforting feeling for the Asian towkay.

Out of Asia, do you know that James Bond (Roger Moore) wore a Rolex Submariner in "Live and Let Die"? Or that Sir Edmund Hillary wore a Rolex Explorer when he conquered Everest? So did Sir Malcolm Campbell when he broke the landspeed record in Bluebird. One famous golfer wears it too but I wonder how he can have a good swing with the heavy watch strapped to his wrist.


In the West, one of the more popular models of Rolex watches is the Cosmograph which is more popularly known as the Daytona. The ones signed by Paul Newman are very rare and are collectors' items. And it has been rumoured that the Daytona is the trade mark of the Mafia as well as the Japanese Yakuza. I personally get very worried when I am approached by men wearing Daytonas and sunglasses.

Imitation is the best form of flattery and Rolex has been flattered to no end. When you decide to buy your first Rolex, be very careful of imitations. Some fake Rolexes are so real it would take an expert eye to tell them apart. Beware of stolen ones too.

[leopardprey]

Good article. Thanks Jason. Yeah, I also remember when I was in Malaysia, always seeing articles about watches in the Sunday Newspaper or a lot of the other Local Mags. The article you posted also kind of puts light on why so many Fake Rolex watches are sold in Asia. Interestingly, I have a lady friend, who dated a little bit, who works at an Omega AD in Cambodia. (they also sell Rado, Longines, used Rolex, and Hamilton). She told me, that most Cambodian/Chinese men prefer watches with Gold and Diamonds. And actually the SS Sport Models are their slow sellers. She said it is all about status. Here in the USA, you will not find too many men wearing a watch with diamonds on it. The SS Sport models are the most popular. From what she told me, in Cambodia the men buy watches more for looks and status and to show off wealth, but when they get Westerners who come in to buy, it is more about function and quality. She also told me they their largest group of buyers are not Cambodians (of course, as not many can afford higher end watches, unless they are Generals or Politicians) but Chinese and Japanese Tourists. She said in her shop they get a large number of Japanese buying watches. Ironically, just about 100 meters from her shop is the Central Market, with the largest number of Fake Watches (Rolex and others) that I have ever seen for sale in one place.

BTW, the Mafia Godfather (Prime Minister), Huen Sen, of Cambodia wears a Patek Philippe.

I also can tell you that from my experience, Ladies in Asia are really quick to spot what type of watch a man is wearing. They learn a lot and about a man from the watch he wears. Had one girl I dated in Hong Kong, ask me (I was wearing a Seiko Dive watch at the time) why I did not have an Omega?

[Gedanken]

Buggered if I know, I just like them!

I'm no anthropologist, but two things to take into account are:

1) Wealth and displays of wealth are a key feature in Asian culture. A key example of this can be seen in the Chinese custom of burning offerings to one's ancestors. Amongst the items to be burnt are effigies of money, houses, Mercedes benzes and Rolexes, in the belief that these will arrive in the afterlife as gifts for said ancestors. Items such as watches, jewellery and pens all display one's wealth.

2) Gadgets are a big Asian thing. Hell, I figure the ancient Chinese invented the compass as a gadget more than a tool, and in the present day, look at all of the gizmos that the Japanese come up with - I'm talking Walkmans to Tamagocchis.

[roadcarver]

In Manila, Philippines, Rolex is always very popular. My parents both wear Rolexes (DateJust and Lady DateJust).

Althought my dad is wearing the Seiko Chrono quartz that I gave him when he goes to work. He does not want them to see that he has a Rolex plus it could get all banged up at his work place.

I myself just like watches.

Here's a story.. when I noticed that my director has a TT Sub, I asked if it was a sub. At first he didn't know what I was asking thinking I was referring to the sub-woofer at his desk. . Once he clued in, he asked if I was into watches and i said yes. he then said "you can't help it you're chinese". He's also Chinese LOL!

[Tools]

Right now...
and for the past half decade, the Chinese economy is the hottest economy on the planet.

There is new found wealth everywhere in China...and the "If you got it, flaunt it" attitude is alive and well..

Of course new wealth is a worldwide phenomenon never seen before, but currently China is outpacing the rest of us by 400%..

[leopardprey]

Roadcarver, That really cracks me up!! LOL LOL

Must be something in the Chinese Blood!! Wonder if the Swiss Watch industry, when there sales started dropping off in the 1970s quartz revolution, started some Manchurian Canidate type treatments or subliminal imaging over in Asia! LOL LOL LOL

In Asia being a WIS, I feel at home (though I am the White minority), but around all my American buddies I am considered really strange for being so into watches!!!

[leopardprey]

Tools, yes I saw a recent news show about the explosion of Luxury Goods for sale in China and how luxury goods are in such high demand. I first travelled to China back in 1995, and have been traveling there pretty much every year since then. It is really amazing to see the increase of wealth and how fast China is growing economically. IN 1995 when I was in GZ, China everyone was still wearing MAO suits and riding bikes. Now it is all cars, western fashions, McDonalds, Starbucks, KFC and even Walmart! Kind of sad in a way. Kind of long for the traditional China I experienced while living in Yunnan Province back in 1995.

I think this ecomomic explosion has really benefited the watch industry. Wonder what will happen to the watch industry if China and/or Asia ever has another large Economic melt down these days like happended through parts of SEA back in 1998.

[worktolivelife]

fascinating thread

Thank You!!!!

steve

[RichK]

On a slight tangent, when I was last in Hong Kong shopping with my grandmother-in-law, she made very clear that I was not to buy a blue-faced Rolex. Apparently (I speak no Chinese), the combination of the word "blue" and "rolex" in Chinese sound close to words that roughly translate to mean that you will have bad luck in business; I can't remember the exact phrase, but that was the effect.

Does anyone know if the younger generation pays any attention to this superstition? In fact, I don't know if anyone else sees it this way other than my grandma!

Best,
Rich

[roadcarver]

I'm Chinese and I don't pay attention to any of those superstitions.

Originally Posted by RichK

On a slight tangent, when I was last in Hong Kong shopping with my grandmother-in-law, she made very clear that I was not to buy a blue-faced Rolex. Apparently (I speak no Chinese), the combination of the word "blue" and "rolex" in Chinese sound close to words that roughly translate to mean that you will have bad luck in business; I can't remember the exact phrase, but that was the effect.

Does anyone know if the younger generation pays any attention to this superstition? In fact, I don't know if anyone else sees it this way other than my grandma!

Best,
Rich

[Ronnie Rolex]

Chad, I do believe the Rolex is perceived by the Asian countries as a prestige watch from the west. Many American and European designer labels are status symbols in Asia.

Case in point, the BB in Honolulu is the largest Rolex dealer in the world (according to their sales people.) Hawaii has a huge influx of Japanese and Korean tourists and is now beginning to market themselves as a travel destination to the Chinese.

Due to the exchange rates, our weakening dollar makes an overseas purchase feasible even though you can find Rolex dealers throughout Asia.

Heck, while I was waiting for my rep to finish selling a Rolex so that he could get my GMT another rep sold a Rolex to someone else. Both sales were under 10 minutes and both to Asian buyers.

[leopardprey]

Well, Rolex is still cheaper to buy in Hong Kong and Malaysia than in USA. But, in Thailand and Singapore because of the Tax for locals, USA is cheaper.

I could see Hawaii as being a big Rolex seller with all the influx of Asian Tourist wanting to buy a Rolex while on vacation. Same for westerners. Seems many of my friends bought their Rolex, Omega, Panerai, etc.. while on vacation taking a cruise, going to Asia, or going to Vegas.

[Mrdi]

In the Asian countries, as a result of population density, it seems much easier to store small objects of status than large.

[Tools]

China's recent decision to levy a "luxury tax" on high end watches will be interesting to watch.

A good percentage of total income for Swiss watchmakers comes from China, and making them more expensive to buy there will just drive the fake market more strongly..

I understand the Swiss are going to fight this, but China Power Brokers have a mind of their own, and now have the muscle to flex..

[vh_bu98]

Very interesting thread since I've always knew that Asians were into name brands, but never really thought much about it when referencing Rolexes.

My first actual insight on the status of a watch came from an Indian coworker of mine years ago. He had purchased an Omega and told me that in India, a person's watch is reflective of their wealth and social status.

Besides one of my best friends and his wife, I don't really know any other Asian who wears a Rolex. Maybe that's because I don't have too many Asian friends.

I like the Asian mafia note of dark glasses and a Daytona. I already wear dark glasses all the time...now I just need a Daytona.

[chris_nor_cal]

interesting thread. jason, thanks for all that info. i have several chinese customers at work who make LOTS of money and most of them couldn't care less about watches at all, yet one of them has a yellow viper and a turbo porsche lol. i find that its mostly the younger generations who like flashy things, or,perhaps the older people liked rolex etc when they were younger and simply has a shift in priorities

[daunwaun]

China will be 100 times bigger then the US of A in the very newar future. Which means a lot of wealth and a lot of rolexes

[chris_nor_cal]

i hope not, i like our oceans

[Blue Bull]

Daytonas and sunglasses = Mafia or Yakuza ?? Screw that,I am more afraid of the men in sunglasses,without the Rolexes approaching me for my Rolex ......

[Flyjet601]

Live over here and you will know why.......

Alot of whats been said is true.

[Bt122]

Bump, just thought I bump this thread form a decade ago... see if any TRF’ers have strong opinions now.

http://www.fhs.swiss/scripts/getstat...3_180103_a.pdf

[dualcarb]

I am a Malaysian of Chinese descent. And I live and work in Hong Kong. Growing up, it’s always the two tone datejust or all gold day date that shows that “you have arrived”. Coming to HK in the mid nineties showed a different perspective. Most business owners would buy a Rolex for its value retention. One told me that as a businessman, he can pawn or sell his Rolex in case he urgently needs cash to pay for his workers’ wages. Which also explains the amount of gold necklaces and bracelets.

This was the reason why I avoided Rolex like the plague when I started working and foolishly bought other brands. I love watches, always have and always will. It was the Rolex that I bought my wife which converted me. Now I buy Rolex because of its durability, timeless design and comfort when it is being worn.