BMW vs Mercedes

[Adam.]

Is there any difference in reliability/maintenance costs between BMW and Mercedes? I am looking at early 2000's 328i vs C280.

[SLRdude]

Any reason why you want those two?
To be honest, any car that old will have problems. Sadly, those two will come with expensive parts and labor bills as well.

The E46 328 and W203 C280 are also slow by today's standards with less than 200 hp on tap.

I for one would suggest saying no to both of them.

It's just my opinion though. :CHEERS:

[wantonebad]

You don't want to pay to repair a German car, I wouldn't buy one that was 10 or more years old, never, and if I had to it would be an Audi.

[kcmo]

Agree that the maintenance just isn't worth it. Gave up my X3 for this reason!

[A.J.R.]

I can only speak about the E46 328i. It is a very reliable car, although there are several areas that need to be addressed and looked through when inspecting that car. The receipts for work done on the car are very important. Has the car been properly maintained with dealer or independent inspection services? When was the coolant system refreshed? Meaning when was the T/stat, waterpump, expansion tank, upper and lower radiator hoses replaced? Has the transmission filter and fluid been replaced? If both of those items have not been addressed they need to be factored into the price.

Other areas to watch out for on the E46.
Window regulators fail
Front control arms and bushings wear out
VANOS unit will eventually need service and or replacement
Cam senors are prone to failure
Crank case vent valve and hoses will need replacement
The general/basic module can fail

[GermanyMatt]

BMW is better simply because it will have the bullet proof straight six - but I'd expect some electrical problems. Benz will have electrical, engine and rust through issues, so I'd stay away. Like many have said though, there are better alternatives for equal money..

[gwalker]

Not really. Both will be pretty expensive to repair at that age. IMO I wouldn't buy either. Too old.

[SLRdude]

If I am wrong, please forgive me... It appears to me that you are shopping for the BMW or Mercedes badge and less for the actual car. Been there myself. Once. And I paid for it dearly!

Long story short, I bought a 1989 Jaguar V12 back in 1998 when I was 22 years old. Biggest financial mistake I ever made. I bought a badge, I wanted to say that I drive a Jaguar.

If that's what you are going for, save a bit longer and buy something newer.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by SLRdude

If I am wrong, please forgive me... It appears to me that you are shopping for the BMW or Mercedes badge and less for the actual car. Been there myself. Once. And I paid for it dearly!

Long story short, I bought a 1989 Jaguar V12 back in 1998 when I was 22 years old. Biggest financial mistake I ever made. I bought a badge, I wanted to say that I drive a Jaguar.

If that's what you are going for, save a bit longer and buy something newer.

Buying even a new jaguar back before ford bought the operation and put reliable systems into them was a mistake. Using the purchase of any jaguar pre ford is not truly analogous to the situation.

[SLRdude]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Buying even a new jaguar back before ford bought the operation and put reliable systems into them was a mistake. Using the purchase of any jaguar pre ford is not truly analogous to the situation.

Not saying that it was truly analogous, I am just saying that it seems like you are shopping for a badge.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Is there any difference in reliability/maintenance costs between BMW and Mercedes? I am looking at early 2000's 328i vs C280.

I would opt for the BMW as I have owned them for 30 years and know them well. Your choice of a E46 328i is an excellent one. That is the last of the trulyreloable BMW's prior to the Idrive and the over computerization of the cars. TRF member AJR above gave you excellent advice and I will add to his with one other caveat ..unless you have the mechanical ability to do the work yourself, and based on the question you posed here, we can assume you do not, you MUST have an honest capabable shop that specializes in BMW....

I buy cars because I like how they look and drive...two things that do not diminish with time for me and as a result I have bought new BMW's over the years and kept them over long periods of time. I could not do that with the BMW's of today as I would not own one once the warranty expired. The cost of repair with all the technology involved in even the most mundane of parts/functions is staggering.


Current stable...all in perfect condition:
E24 1985 635Csi bought used in 1990
E24 1988 M6 bought used in 1993
E32 1991 735i bought new
E38 1998 740i bought new (current daily driver with 158k mi)
E38 2001 740i bought new

[crew]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I buy cars because I like how they look and drive...two things that do not diminish with time for me and as a result I have bought new BMW's over the years and kept them over long periods of time. I could not do that with the BMW's of today as I would not own one once the warranty expired. The cost of repair with all the technology involved in even the most mundane of parts/functions is staggering.

What he said! I have owned both Mercedes and BMW and it is simply too risky to own one outside of the warranty period.
You might ask "What's the worst that could happen?"
The worst could be any number of expensive components that cost between $5000-10,000.
Don't do it.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by crew

What he said! I have owned both Mercedes and BMW and it is simply too risky to own one outside of the warranty period.
You might ask "What's the worst that could happen?"
The worst could be any number of expensive components that cost between $5000-10,000.
Don't do it.

That is true on the post 2006 BMW's. I would never own a new BMW beyond the warranty period. I am totally in love with the looks of the F1 7 series and the F11 5 series. BMW has finally exorcized the ghost of Chris Bangle from its cars. That said, I do not want to fall in love and buy a car that I have to sell in the future because of mechanical system reliability and repair cost.


The 3 series up to 2006 is not that bad. I the secondary market the e46 holds value very well just because it is the last of the 3 series where you can have a longstanding love affair with your car. The non turbo 330i e46 is commanding a premium over later models of the more technologically complex twin turbo 335i.

There are better models/years to own and of course, the car you select and it's service history is of vital importance to your success as well.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by crew

What he said! I have owned both Mercedes and BMW and it is simply too risky to own one outside of the warranty period.
You might ask "What's the worst that could happen?"
The worst could be any number of expensive components that cost between $5000-10,000.
Don't do it.

TBH that's utter nonsense, there's nothing that's going to go wrong on an E46 328i that costs anywhere near that. For the record I own an E46 '98 328i auto and a '00 330ci manual 300k KMs on the 328i and 135k KMs on the 330ci.

In the time I've owned it the 328i has cost me an idler pulley ($250) a window regulator (free from a wrecker and a breeze to install) and regular servicing my my local indy shop. The 330ci hasn't cost me anything but servicing and tyres, both of which are cheaper than my brother's 2011 Toyota Hilux.

Everything that can go wrong on an E46 is documented, and fixable, go manual if you can, the M52/M54 series engines are bombproof, and while the 328i auto isn't fast, the 330ci with light tuning does 0-60 in about 5.4s, definitely not slow for the great economy it gives.

If you're a BMW enthusiast, get into the online communities (the E46 community dwarfs TRF dramatically) and use an indy shop for servicing, you'll spend your life laughing at people that think BMWs are expensive to maintain or are a nightmare outside of warranty, and thank them for paying the depreciation hit for you.

Here's my pair, just buy it ;)

[crew]

Originally Posted by dsio

TBH that's utter nonsense, there's nothing that's going to go wrong on an E46 328i that costs anywhere near that. For the record I own an E46 '98 328i auto and a '00 330ci manual 300k KMs on the 328i and 135k KMs on the 330ci.

In the time I've owned it the 328i has cost me an idler pulley ($250) a window regulator (free from a wrecker and a breeze to install) and regular servicing my my local indy shop. The 330ci hasn't cost me anything but servicing and tyres, both of which are cheaper than my brother's 2011 Toyota Hilux.

Everything that can go wrong on an E46 is documented, and fixable, go manual if you can, the M52/M54 series engines are bombproof, and while the 328i auto isn't fast, the 330ci with light tuning does 0-60 in about 5.4s, definitely not slow for the great economy it gives.

If you're a BMW enthusiast, get into the online communities (the E46 community dwarfs TRF dramatically) and use an indy shop for servicing, you'll spend your life laughing at people that think BMWs are expensive to maintain or are a nightmare outside of warranty, and thank them for paying the depreciation hit for you.

Here's my pair, just buy it ;)

Some truth to this statement that the E46 is less complex and therefore less costly. Don't be fooled though, they still are more expensive to maintain than the "average" car. If you are an enuthiast and can do your own repairs you can save a lot of money. Few people have that time or ability though.
I've owned 3 Bimmers and they all cost money. To be fair they were all a joy to drive, especially when under warranty.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by crew

Some truth to this statement that the E46 is less complex and therefore less costly. Don't be fooled though, they still are more expensive to maintain than the "average" car. If you are an enuthiast and can do your own repairs you can save a lot of money. Few people have that time or ability though.
I've owned 3 Bimmers and they all cost money. To be fair they were all a joy to drive, especially when under warranty.

Well thing is, lets say a sunroof shade got stuck, happened to a friend of mine, was quoted $1800 for a new sunroof cartridge plus installation at the dealership. He then spent $16 on a new sunshade clip, watched a youtube video, then spent an hour installing it. Now he's a successful guy, but he doesn't make $1800/hour, by installing a clip after watching a video instead of paying the dealer, he's $1784 ahead, while a stupid person would have paid the money and then complained about how expensive the car was to fix. The car wasn't expensive to fix, you just need to be intelligent enough to think before handing your credit card over to the dealership, or better yet, never set foot in one.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by dsio

TBH that's utter nonsense, there's nothing that's going to go wrong on an E46 328i that costs anywhere near that. For the record I own an E46 '98 328i auto and a '00 330ci manual 300k KMs on the 328i and 135k KMs on the 330ci.

In the time I've owned it the 328i has cost me an idler pulley ($250) a window regulator (free from a wrecker and a breeze to install) and regular servicing my my local indy shop. The 330ci hasn't cost me anything but servicing and tyres, both of which are cheaper than my brother's 2011 Toyota Hilux.

Everything that can go wrong on an E46 is documented, and fixable, go manual if you can, the M52/M54 series engines are bombproof, and while the 328i auto isn't fast, the 330ci with light tuning does 0-60 in about 5.4s, definitely not slow for the great economy it gives.

If you're a BMW enthusiast, get into the online communities (the E46 community dwarfs TRF dramatically) and use an indy shop for servicing, you'll spend your life laughing at people that think BMWs are expensive to maintain or are a nightmare outside of warranty, and thank them for paying the depreciation hit for you.

Here's my pair, just buy it ;)

very nice pair!!!!! As numerous TRF members have said, the E46, particularly with a manual transmission, is a very reliable platform in the 3 series liniage at IMHO combines the ideal balance of technology/reliability/drivability!!!

If you do opt for a slush box (automatic), look for a car that has less than 70,000 mi and have the "lifetime fill" transmission completely serviced. If not,expect to replace/rebuild between 120k and 160k miles.

I have my eyes outdoes super clean exceptional low milage e46 coupe with manual transmission to use on the track/autocross.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by Paladin

very nice pair!!!!! As numerous TRF members have said, the E46, particularly with a manual transmission, is a very reliable platform in the 3 series liniage at IMHO combines the ideal balance of technology/reliability/drivability!!!

If you do opt for a slush box (automatic), look for a car that has less than 70,000 mi and have the "lifetime fill" transmission completely serviced. If not,expect to replace/rebuild between 120k and 160k miles.

I have my eyes outdoes super clean exceptional low milage e46 coupe with manual transmission to use on the track/autocross.

Its not bad at all for that purpose, the E46 330CI has far more serious brakes than you would expect, better than E36M and only slightly behind E46 M3 and the manual box is a straight carry over from the E36 M3, great shifter feel and highly capable.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Is there any difference in reliability/maintenance costs between BMW and Mercedes? I am looking at early 2000's 328i vs C280.

You may want to find a copy of BIMMER magazine, no. 102 , November 2011 which has the comprehensive "Buyers Guide 2001-2006 3 Series" article in it. If you can't find it, PM me and I will photo copy and mail it to you.

And one other bit of advice....Search out a clean low mi example with a manaual transmission...DO NOT get an automatic transmission!!!!!!

[GermanyMatt]

I own a 2006 530Xi Wagon (wife's car) and it's been great; after three years of ownership, the only expensive repair I've had is a compressor for the suspension leveling system that ran about $500. The car is paid for, so I don't mind paying $500-$1000 per year in typical repairs.

Prior to my current 2011 Audi S4, I also owned a 2008 335i that was totally problem free over two years of ownership. Still under warranty when I sold it, but I felt that it was a well built vehicle. The car was too small for my family and terrible in snow - hence the larger S4 that has quattro.

Prior to those two, I had a 2003 BMW 330Ci Cabrio - great car, but there are a lot of tech goodies that have come out since then that are a must have now, including blue tooth for hands-free phone. It was a great car overall, but it's sluggish compared to even a newer model Hyundai Sonata.

[Scandinavian]

I think Mercedes is more old mans car and BMW's image is more youthful? After saying that, my car is BMW and next is probably Mercedes :)

[gmh1013]

Ive guess I was lucky buying a 16 year old 325 for 2500.00 and drove it almost 70k with no problems (sold at 158k miles)
I would not buy a new one now and stick with Toyota's for everyday driving or if I want HP get a new Mustang V-8 or Dodge hemi.

[EC7]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Is there any difference in reliability/maintenance costs between BMW and Mercedes? I am looking at early 2000's 328i vs C280.

To answer your question about reliability/maintenance, both cars do require proper maintenance, and maintaining it can be expensive. Taking them to a dealership will cost a lot of money. You can save by being knowledgeable about the issues, purchase genuine parts on your own, and have a trusted mechanic install it for you.

Here is an example. My 7 series power seat went out. Bummer, since i can no longer adjust the seat, and my steering wheel is stuck in the highest angled position. So i went to the dealership for a possible repair. Right away they estimated it will be $150 for diagnostics (they claimed it will have to be hooked up in a computer), around $400 for parts, plus labor $XXX.

I went online, did some research, asked around on forums, and i found the issue. Purchased the part online for $200 and installed it myself.

In my opinion, owning a luxury car comes with responsibility. It's very different from owning a honda (I have both vehicles, so I know from first hand experience.)

[lavaman]

go to Edmunds.com and look up the models and their years.

personally, I STRONGLY prefer BMW to MB. BMW (except 7 series generally) tend to be mechanically pretty straight fwd. Also note that BMW is a -driving- machine, whereas MB is a luxury car. It makes a difference how they set up their vehicles.

Personally I agree with all, having owned several BMWs. I buy them b/c I love them, but yep, they ain't cheap to maintain. HOWEVER in my experience BMW is more of a fix it once, where as it -seems- to me that MB is "oh god what is it this week?".

But again, that depends.

You are NOT buying a new Toyota. So bear that in mind

[tinger]

Folks,
Bmw's free maintenance is worth a few Rolex(s).
I'm no expert driver, but the Bmws are more fun to drive.. better balanced.

I paid ~$3K for a routine service (tuned c63) that should have cost less than $600.
The freaking adviser told me I needed 'this and that'. My fault for trusting him and signing the estimate.
In any event, I now own a Jeep Wrangler.
Anyone here old enough to remember the 2.3 190-v16 and the 2002ti?

[TAKUYA]

buy Bimmer with the warranty and you have to know how to maintenance it by your self. Otherwise, just saving up for the new Bimmer, so you can get a free maintenance 4 yrs/50K miles. And yes, that means you can save up for a Rolex. But some bimmers are really reliable. MY sister has 2000 white bmw 328ci, it runs up 150K miles now with only a few minor problems.

[lavaman]

i will say that the cert pre owned warranty on Benz is a bit more comprehensive than on a BMW, when last I looked in 2009. Miss Chica bought a clk 550 and the warranty on her CPO paid for itself first time an OS (oh shit) light went on

[bodybump]

328i moded

[threepointoh]

Originally Posted by bodybump

328i moded

That is sweet!

[crew]

I visited my brother last night and noticed his Mercedes SL wasn't in his garage.
He told me that the convertible top wasn't going down correctly, and had been acting up for some time. It got worse so he took it to the dealer. They told him he needs a new "module" and the part was $3,000. They are trying to source him a refurbished one.
His car is a '94 with approximately 40,000 miles on it.
This is an example of what can go wrong.