the "Ask a Grey" thread

[Mosco]

In my humble opinion, the timing is about right for this one. The purpose of this thread is to answer any and all (well, most ) questions about the secondary watch market. Since the physical amount of pre-owned watches absolutely trumps that of the 'new, sealed' ones - methinks that it is useful for buyers to make wise, educated decisions.

Feeding off buddy Chris - The GMT Master's "Ask an Insider" thread pertaining to AD purchases, I want to be able to answer questions about the other aspects of watch trading business. And face it, for many of us it is business to some degree, even if you're only buying one piece. The goal is to get it at an absolute best value, making sure that it has some equity, that it is a liquid asset, either now or in the near future. Naturally, input from the other TRF professionals is welcomed and appreciated .

Two of the most frequently asked questions are:

“How do you get these watches?”

Where do I start… The timepieces are sourced by many different scenarios, from trade-ins, to wholesale shows, to placing large orders with AD’s (and therefore obtaining goods at discount), every piece is different. Most greys work as hard on sourcing the goods as they do selling them.

“How do I know this watch isn’t fake or stolen?”

You don’t. Key is to do your homework. If you are dealing with a ‘bad guy’, do you think he will tell you that his product is a replica, or obtained by illegal methods? Of course not. BUY THE SELLER, and you will be fine.


Have a good day everyone, and let’s get some questions answered!

[WatchTimes]

Looks like a great idea!
I look forward to following this thread and learning from your experience!

[zeuloa]

Thanks Mosco. This is a great idea!

Question: do you "touch-up" your pre owned pieces before selling them. If yes, to what extent (full polish, replacing a few bad parts, movement service, etc)

Once again thanks!

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by WatchTimes

Looks like a great idea!
I look forward to following this thread and learning from your experience!

Jeremy my man, your contributions to this thread will be much appreciated - you're a wealth of knowledge when it comes to many brands.

Originally Posted by zeuloa

Thanks Mosco. This is a great idea!

Question: do you "touch-up" your pre owned pieces before selling them. If yes, to what extent (full polish, replacing a few bad parts, movement service, etc)

Once again thanks!

It really depends. In some cases it is better to leave it alone, as most customers say "I'm going to scratch it up anyway in a week". Watch can only be polished so many times before it starts losing its lines. If it is just minor 'deskdiving' marks, then my watchmaker does minimal touch-up, as non-invasive as possible.

[Cru Jones]

wow greg! good stuff. this could get very interesting. thanks for the kind offer.

so, here are two questions for you........

1) with the move to boutiques by some brands, how has the "grey" market on your end been impacted (if at all)?

2) since you handle many brands, with the relentless price increases of certain brands, have you noticed any differences in what brands people contact you about?

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

wow greg! good stuff. this could get very interesting. thanks for the kind offer.

so, here are two questions for you........

1) with the move to boutiques by some brands, how has the "grey" market on your end been impacted (if at all)?

2) since you handle many brands, with the relentless price increases of certain brands, have you noticed any differences in what brands people contact you about?

These answers pertain to my business structure and may be totally different for other 'regulars'...

1) The boutique move has definitely made it tougher to obtain new goods, but it is completely OK with me. I never felt that it is wise to buy bnib watches at minimal discount, as one takes the largest hit when taking the condition from 'new' to 'used'. Plus the margins are not there for most of the greys, unless we are playing the currency exchange game and bringing goods in from overseas. So overall I welcome the boutique movement, as it adds exclusivity to the brands, and the key of this business is not to appeal to the masses.

2) We are being contacted about mostly the same key brands, although requests for Omega have definitely increased. Price increases don't affect demand long-term, as cost goes up for everyone, across the board.

[gmh1013]

Originally Posted by Mosco

These answers pertain to my business structure and may be totally different for other 'regulars'...

1) The boutique move has definitely made it tougher to obtain new goods, but it is completely OK with me. I never felt that it is wise to buy bnib watches at minimal discount, as one takes the largest hit when taking the condition from 'new' to 'used'. Plus the margins are not there for most of the greys, unless we are playing the currency exchange game and bringing goods in from overseas. So overall I welcome the boutique movement, as it adds exclusivity to the brands, and the key of this business is not to appeal to the masses.

2) We are being contacted about mostly the same key brands, although requests for Omega have definitely increased. Price increases don't affect demand long-term, as cost goes up for everyone, across the board.

Why have the demand for an Omega gone up ....because of the boutiques?
My experience with them has been less than stellar.
I hope Omega does not drop all the AR's

[Cru Jones]

interesting perspectives. thanks very much for your responses.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

interesting perspectives. thanks very much for your responses.

My pleasure!

[kcmo]

Nice thread, Greg!

[Dan Pierce]

This is a great resource, Greg.
Unfortunately, most aren't as lucky as I am being able to pick your brain in person. And I always learn a lot.
dP

[F&Iguy]

thanks for the insight and information Greg

[Mosco]

Thanks fellas! BTW, if anyone has a question that they don't want to ask in public, feel free to PM me.

[perpetualman88]

great idea/ gesture greg I look forward to following this thread :)

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by perpetualman88

great idea/ gesture greg I look forward to following this thread :)

David, I would by all means love your input here as well, mate

[perpetualman88]

Originally Posted by Mosco

David, I would by all means love your input here as well, mate

Thanks bud ill chime in every now and then if you need another perspective

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by perpetualman88

Thanks bud ill chime in every now and then if you need another perspective

Not 'if' my friend - feel free to chime in anytime!

[Sherwooddavid]

Sorry if someone else posted this ...I didn't have time to read the whole thread.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/wat...ry-708700.html

[Runnin' Rebel]

Greg, I was talking to a great grey dealer on here and kinda asked him the hardest part of being a grey dealer, his response was "dealing with people, ie..low ball, don't get back to you, forgetting to send you a trade, etc.. Hats off to you guys, you earn your money !

Not really a question, but I admire most of you cause of what you have to put up with sometimes.

Have a great week !! Nice thread too .

[wantonebad]

Has to be a tough position to try and make a living, you get beat-up on both sides about price and people always must nag you about nit-picky details. You're a better man then me Greg

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by JAGERVEGAS

Greg, I was talking to a great grey dealer on here and kinda asked him the hardest part of being a grey dealer, his response was "dealing with people, ie..low ball, don't get back to you, forgetting to send you a trade, etc.. Hats off to you guys, you earn your money !

Not really a question, but I admire most of you cause of what you have to put up with sometimes.

Have a great week !! Nice thread too .

There really is no easy way to make an honest living nowadays, it's better to at least do what you love...

And thanks man

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Has to be a tough position to try and make a living, you get beat-up on both sides about price and people always must nag you about nit-picky details. You're a better man then me Greg

It definitely thickens your skin, without a doubt.

[S``]

This more in light on fun:

How do you differentiate a lowballer vs a hard negotiator?

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by S``

This more in light on fun:

How do you differentiate a lowballer vs a hard negotiator?

By whether a deal is made.
dP

[S``]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

By whether a deal is made.
dP

so true

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by S``

This more in light on fun:

How do you differentiate a lowballer vs a hard negotiator?

Apply the laws of reason. If someone offers me half of my asking price, I don't even respond, as that tells me that the buyer isn't serious. If someone makes an offer and can show comparable sales to support his/her number - that tells me I am dealing with an educated buyer, and 99% of time a deal is completed.

[Numismatist]

Do greys trade stock amongst themselves? I've noticed that some seem to fairly consistently offer the high end blinged out models; while others mostly have the SS models. I'm wondering if you all get a 'mix' and then sort it out to who is the best seller of a particular style?

[Trewth]

With Rolex increasing their cut to an AD, how much are you truly making off of each watch on the grey market? what percentage?

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by gmh1013

Why have the demand for an Omega gone up ....because of the boutiques?
My experience with them has been less than stellar.
I hope Omega does not drop all the AR's

Maybe because of the boutiques, maybe because of the multitude of the new models which are 'singing' to collectors. Only time will tell....

Originally Posted by Numismatist

Do greys trade stock amongst themselves? I've noticed that some seem to fairly consistently offer the high end blinged out models; while others mostly have the SS models. I'm wondering if you all get a 'mix' and then sort it out to who is the best seller of a particular style?

Naturally, trades amongst dealers take place, that is the whole premise behind IWJG shows. However, the items we stock are usually the ones we have general clientele for. Personally, I try not to deviate from my niche too much.

Originally Posted by Trewth

With Rolex increasing their cut to an AD, how much are you truly making off of each watch on the grey market? what percentage?

That's a trade secret, although I will tell you that our margins are typically very low, in the single digits. The primary focus is not 'profit from individual sale', but rather volume.

[Megalobyte]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Maybe because of the boutiques, maybe because of the multitude of the new models which are 'singing' to collectors. Only time will tell....


Naturally, trades amongst dealers take place, that is the whole premise behind IWJG shows. However, the items we stock are usually the ones we have general clientele for. Personally, I try not to deviate from my niche too much.



That's a trade secret, although I will tell you that our margins are typically very low, in the single digits. The primary focus is not 'profit from individual sale', but rather volume.

Up to $9? That IS low! :)

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Up to $9? That IS low! :)