Thinking of a Ferrari 348 ts

[bayerische]

... am I crazy?

Test drove a 348 TS today, late 1992 model, with the motronic 2,7 injection (supposedly far better than the 2,5 version).

What a lovely car.

I would trade my 2007 BMW Z4 M for it though... I'll most likely get a good price for the M, and the Ferrari is in a splendid condition, with the timing belt just changed and serviced for 4000 euro. It's painted as well for 5000 euro.

So any Ferrari 348 owners on board? Tips?

What I reckon is that the Ferrari will depreciate a lot slower than the Z4.

Car prices are crazy in Finland, and a Z4 M 2007 with low miles (like mine) model is roughly 50K euro. A Ferrari 348 is about the same price, maybe slightly more expensive.

The dealer selling the Ferrari are friends of mine, and I've bought 3 cars from them the last 18 months, and known the guys for 15 years, so I'm not getting tricked here.

And as I said, I think the 348 I've been looking at is as nice as they come, for being a 20 year old veteran.

So, the one I drove today has done 66K kilometers, or about 40k miles. Engine sounded great, the gearbox is a little stubborn, especially on the downshifts from 2nd into first at speed, but I guess that's normal, it's not a light handed car.

Performance wise I know I'll be downgrading myself a bit, but man did I feel good driving it! I had a million euro smile on my face.

I love my Z4, and if I could I would have both, but having 4 cars in a family of 2 isn't really feasible.

Should I just sober up and keep the BMW, or should I follow a dream of mine since forever and get my first (hopefully not last) Ferrari?

[Ristretto]

I would suggest you get a F355 ( not slower than the z4m)

[bayerische]

Yes, I know the F355 is probably a better car, it's just that they are quite a lot more money....

We're talking about 20k more. That's 70k euro.

[Ristretto]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Yes, I know the F355 is probably a better car, it's just that they are quite a lot more money....

We're talking about 20k more. That's 70k euro.

It's worth it, F355 looks better and is a modern classic. I would delay the purchase and get a F355 later.

[JP Chestnut]

I'd be leery of a repainted Ferrari. That can have a significant impact on pricing so make sure it's reflected in what you pay.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

I'd be leery of a repainted Ferrari. That can have a significant impact on pricing so make sure it's reflected in what you pay.

That's what I've been thinking... It is professionally made though, just a touch up of the color, nor re-painted in another color than the original Ferrari red.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by bayerische

That's what I've been thinking... It is professionally made though, just a touch up of the color, nor re-painted in another color than the original Ferrari red.

Ferraris, for the most part, lead a pampered life. I'd have the car checked seriously by someone who knows what they're doing.

[Dr.Brian]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Yes, I know the F355 is probably a better car, it's just that they are quite a lot more money....

We're talking about 20k more. That's 70k euro.

In for a penny, in for a pound.
Keep in mind that just as the service costs are significantly higher with BMW than say Honda, the Ferrari parts, etc will likely be an order of magnitude higher than BMW, and the lack of qualified competition will mean top dollar service charges.
One day I'll get a 911 turbo, maybe the new one... It seems like the smart super car.
Those BMW prices are definitely crazy. A new M3 convertible is around $70k here.

[s.justinlee]

any pics?

[HL65]

I would also recommend a clean original paint 355. I had one years ago and it was a pretty sweet car.

[bewithabob]

You are crazy and I like it!

[imono]

The F355 will probably be less problematic with a lot less maintenance down the road.
I'll wait a little longer...

[Darlinboy]

The killer on those is the upkeep. Be prepared to shell out huge amounts for maintenance.

Resale value is pretty significantly impacted by mileage, much more so than the Z4, so keep that in mind as well.

Like anything else, if you've done the research & are comfortable with the cost, go for it!

[AIKO]

Can you even drive a Ferrari in Finland-snow chains on the tires? :-)

[GermanyMatt]

Originally Posted by AIKO

Can you even drive a Ferrari in Finland-snow chains on the tires? :-)

I thought the same thing..

You should be driving an Audi with quattro

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by AIKO

Can you even drive a Ferrari in Finland-snow chains on the tires? :-)

Some do, on well kept roads.



I don't even drive my Z4 M in winter, it's a garage queen then.

[Manofsteelpt]

Last night on Cajun Pawn, a guy brought in a 1990 348 ts to sell... goodluck in ur decision.

[FNFZ4]

Stay Away From A Repainted Ferrari or Lamborghini

[rr-nyc]

I think the 355 is one of the best looking ferraris out there with classic and clean lines. I find the 348 dated and slow. Wait and save for the 355 IMO

I may be wrong but i think that the 348, like the 355, are part of the engine-out oil change era of Ferrari. Paying $1100 for an oil change would make me sick

[daunwaun]

no pics no dice

[520Matt]

I'm not a fan of the Z4 BMW looks. One way of the other trade it for something. Cheers

[77T]

Andreas - good luck in your quest

You said, "Engine sounded great, the gearbox is a little stubborn, especially on the downshifts from 2nd into first at speed, but I guess that's normal, it's not a light handed car."

She is not meant to be downshifted hard like that - from 2nd to 1st 'at speed'. Engine braking is not wise to begin with - but more so from 2nd to 1st.

So you may have a problem coming soon because someone may have been doing this same thing - synchro could be a problem. There is an inspection plate to open and run a magnetized stick around to find metal filings.

The plate looks like this:



Here is a short list to have an independent review completed:

Things to look for:

1. Does she start instantly

2. Does the engine knock

3. Does she rattle or shake when driving above 60mph

4. Does the transmission have a major grinding sound when shifting up
through the gears (don't try a hard downshift, that's a different story)

5. Do all of the headlights, blinkers, brake-lights, fog-lights, parking
lights work and does the horn honk

6. Do both of the power windows and door locks work

7. Any vibrations in the steering wheel while driving, or secondly, is the steering wheel loose or tight?

8. Are the tips of the exhaust pipes coated black or gray (any visible holes
in exhaust pipes)

9. Any obvious paint burns/fade, rust, or clearly bent frame

10. Can the car turn in a slow-speed circle, with the steering wheel turned
all the way to max left, then another circle with the steering wheel max
right, without hearing tire scraping, loud knocks, or having bad steering
wheel vibrations

11. Air conditioning blows cold

12. Anti-lock brakes prevent the tires from locking in a quick stop (say,
from 25 mph to 0)

13. Top goes up and doesn't leak (canvas goes **outside** of black metal bars on sides)

14. Top goes down and the "boot" snaps correctly into place over it

15. Passenger and driver doors open and close tightly, with no squeaks,
rattles, or hesitation. With doors open, do you see any obvious breaks or burns in the wiring harness that runs from the car into the doors?

16. Front trunk opens and closes normally (simply drop it with no added pressure besides its own weight), and applying water to the outside when it's closed doesn't cause leaks inside

17. Rear engine vent cover opens and closes easily

18. Car tracks reasonably straight when you remove hands from steering wheel

19. Car goes into reverse with only minor effort (you may have to push down on the gearshift lever, that's by design)

20. Emergency brake holds car when parked and gear-shift is in neutral

21. Car idles below 1100 rpm, and idles reasonably smoothly (revs easily, puts smile on face)

22. no obvious signs of oil leaks below the engine on the pavement or in the engine compartment

23. no overpowering aroma of fire inside the cockpit

24. no noticeable smell of gasoline

25. radio and speakers function without large-scale hisses or pops

26. no visible smoke beneath the car or in the engine compartment when idling

27. is there a functioning car alarm (is it factory or aftermarket)

28. VIN plate in door-jamb and engine compartment is visible and unscratched and matches the number advertised

29. Front windshield is uncracked and seals appear tight around it

30. power mirrors adjust as expected

31. heater works as expected

32. Any loans against the title, any "duplicate" title history via autocheck.com, any stolen/salvage title history, is the car currently registered and tagged with a correct license plate in its current state/province

33. Open up the radiator and look for corrosion just inside the overfill tank. Sludge in the radiator tank can be a sign of a blown headgasket. Have a quickstop oil change place show you the transmission plug so that you can see if it has many metal fragments on it (i.e. disintegrating tranny or not). See if you have a Ferrari Purflex or high-end Wix oil filter with the date of installation/oil change written on it, or if the prior owner was a cheapskate (e.g. a Fram paper filter). Did the prior owner use a thick oil such as a 20-w50 to hide oil leaks, or do you have a decent synthetic (e.g. 5w-40) in the car?

34. When you first turn the ignition key to "run" (not "Start"), do you temporarily see both Check Engine (non-Euro cars) and both Slow Down lights? This is important, because if those bulbs have been removed or replaced with dead bulbs, engine trouble computer codes are probably being hidden from you. Do you see the ABS light and the BRAKE light? Do these lights turn off within 1 minute of starting the car?

35. Go drive the car. Brake slowly. Do you feel any vibrations? Does the car pull left or right while braking? Repeat this step (to warm up the brakes).

36. Can you shift smoothly into 2nd gear without grinding or clunking?

37. Is the acceleration smooth? Now brake hard. Vibrations? Pulling? ABS engaged?

38. Has the oil temp risen to the 1/4 mark during this drive? When it gets there, kill the engine (did you hear a loud "box of rocks" metallic clanking noise when you turned the engine off). You want to wait about 10 minutes to see if it will start up again when hot, so kill time by checking the exterior of the car, under the front and rear hoods, etc. OK, time has passed. Does it now start right up again when hot? This is important. Did you hear a loud "box of rocks" metallic clanking noise when starting the hot engine (this is an early sign of the flywheel needing to be repacked with grease...not terribly expensive to do, can even be done yourself, but good to know)?

39. Go idle the car or drive in traffic for 20 minutes. Do the oil and water temperatures both stay at or below their 1/2 way marks, or does the car overheat?

40. After all of the above, will she start up *again* easily, or is the battery "dead"

41. Now look under the rear engine deck at the catalytic converters. Are either of them glowing red?

42. Are all of the rubber CV boots (near wheels, on axles) intact, or do they have a split, crack, or hole? When driving slowly next to a wall, do you hear metallic bearing noises from your wheels?

43. Does the car have a reasonable paper trail for its documented service history?

44. Does the seller have all 3 original Factory keys (black, fold in half)?

45. Examine the shock/suspension set up (most 348 shocks need rebuilding for around $400 or all new shocks for $1,600).

46. Examine the doors/rockers for rust (typically on the bolts).

47. The car should have all service records *after* the last "Major Service." If it hasn't had a cam belt change in over 5 years or 30K miles then budget $4-6KUSD short term because you'll have to have the cam belt changed.

48. Try the climate control buttons; it's $2k and up if they don't work (Freon conversion alone is $300 once it's opened).

49. Look at the front airdam from underneath (Corners especially) for holes, bondo, skidplates and the like. Look under the side rails as well for hard bottoming out. Thanks, SeaBayR

50. The Clutch should be mid throw; at the top it's thin, and watch out for a grabby clutch (may be breaking pressure plate fingers internally).

51. Check for oil leaks near the 1 timing belt (355 has 2) and listen for squeaks from the belt idler pulley, rightside exhaust rattles, as well as warped front rotors causing loud noise upon braking.

Be skeptical. Make the car prove itself to you before you spend your money.

[bayerische]

Well it wasn't exactly a hard downshift, to first. Say at 20mph.

Reverse and first at standstill is smooth.

I'll post some pics.

[bayerische]

Allrighty some pics of the car in question:

[TSW]

Love the look of the 348!

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by TSW

Love the look of the 348!

Yes, she definitely "got the look".

[ydna808]

Wow she looks sweet. If she's mechanically sound I'd trade my M for her in a heartbeat is there carfax in your neck of the woods?

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by ydna808

Wow she looks sweet. If she's mechanically sound I'd trade my M for her in a heartbeat is there carfax in your neck of the woods?

There's no car fax, but every car has to be MOT once a year by an independent.

So milage, accidents etc are being checked and documented.

[Ristretto]

The interior looks showroom quality

[Porsche]

Wow Andreas, she's a beauty. If you are confident it's a good one, go for it!

I also had my heart set on one, but ended up with a Porsche 911. Entry price for good ferraris are astronomical here in Oz, and "affordable" ones are just waiting to suck up big service costs.

PS. Fantastic check list from 77t above, that should be made a sticky in the reference section! Thanks.
One day I will get the 355 I promised myself ;-)