Looks as if Lance Armstrong will lose it all

[Route 66]

Lance Armstrong effectively surrendered his seven Tour de France titles Thursday, announcing he was giving up his years-long fight against accusations that he cheated to repeatedly win cycling's greatest race.

U.S. Anti-Doping Agency Chief Executive Travis Tygart said late Thursday he was still waiting to hear directly from Armstrong but added that the cyclist's decision not to proceed in an arbitration process will leave Armstrong stripped of all of his Tour titles and 2000 Olympic bronze medal and result in a lifetime competition ban.

[Dan2010]

Witchhunt comes to mind on this one but who knows for sure.

[MonBK]

Thank God BM, WR and GM aren't considered doping preps.

[MoBe]

The UCI may have a hand in the final outcome of whatever game is being played out on the cycling world stage,there`s no way to know what`s really going on here.This whole situation is certainly the biggest can of worms I`ve ever seen opened anywhere with the possible exception of Watergate.

[Lol-x]

Lance has repeatedly said he had undergone hundreds of doping tests over the years. I don't know if that is so, but for sure he would have been tested many many times.

If Lance did have drugs or engage in blood doping then it would have had to have been an exceedingly well calculated exercise not to have been caught.

Rumour has it that Lance's team mates from US Postal have made statements of inappropriate activities implicating Lance during the relevant years. I understand that there are approximately 5 or more such team mates including George Hancapie who have so made statements to the relevant Drug Investigation Agency. Such team mates have entered into a plea bargain arrangement whereby they will each receive a 6 month ban from the sport of cycling starting in October 2012.

It is a very unfortunate situation for all, no one comes out the winner except for maybe those who may be tempted to engage in illegal activity in the future....

The problem is it is impossible to prove someone innocent. Courts, Tribunals and investigatory authorities only determine what the evidence tends to suggest. Sometimes that is said to be overwhelming, but sometimes we know for a fact that people get wrongly convicted.

Lance has been the most successful cyclist in the past decade and perhaps some resent that, or perhaps the success was due to external factors. It is something in which we may never know the full story.

On a different note, Lance has been the vehicle for a great deal of good especially for those suffering from Cancer and we should not forget the wonderful work Lance has done for those suffering from that dreaded disease. That is an undeniable fact.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Lance has repeatedly said he had undergone hundreds of doping tests over the years. I don't know if that is so, but for sure he would have been tested many many times.

If Lance did have drugs or engage in blood doping then it would have had to have been an exceedingly well calculated exercise not to have been caught.

Rumour has it that Lance's team mates from US Postal have made statements of inappropriate activities implicating Lance during the relevant years. I understand that there are approximately 5 or more such team mates including George Hancapie who have so made statements to the relevant Drug Investigation Agency. Such team mates have entered into a plea bargain arrangement whereby they will each receive a 6 month ban from the sport of cycling starting in October 2012.

It is a very unfortunate situation for all, no one comes out the winner except for maybe those who may be tempted to engage in illegal activity in the future....

The problem is it is impossible to prove someone innocent. Courts, Tribunals and investigatory authorities only determine what the evidence tends to suggest. Sometimes that is said to be overwhelming, but sometimes we know for a fact that people get wrongly convicted.

Lance has been the most successful cyclist in the past decade and perhaps some resent that, or perhaps the success was due to external factors. It is something in which we may never know the full story.

On a different note, Lance has been the vehicle for a great deal of good especially for those suffering from Cancer and we should not forget the wonderful work Lance has done for those suffering from that dreaded disease. That is an undeniable fact.

Well said Steve - and many may not understand his decision. I would suggest that others not infer guilt because Lance declines binding arbitration. Fighting for 2 years to disprove a negative can be frustrating.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Lance has repeatedly said he had undergone hundreds of doping tests over the years. I don't know if that is so, but for sure he would have been tested many many times.

If Lance did have drugs or engage in blood doping then it would have had to have been an exceedingly well calculated exercise not to have been caught.

Rumour has it that Lance's team mates from US Postal have made statements of inappropriate activities implicating Lance during the relevant years. I understand that there are approximately 5 or more such team mates including George Hancapie who have so made statements to the relevant Drug Investigation Agency. Such team mates have entered into a plea bargain arrangement whereby they will each receive a 6 month ban from the sport of cycling starting in October 2012.

It is a very unfortunate situation for all, no one comes out the winner except for maybe those who may be tempted to engage in illegal activity in the future....

The problem is it is impossible to prove someone innocent. Courts, Tribunals and investigatory authorities only determine what the evidence tends to suggest. Sometimes that is said to be overwhelming, but sometimes we know for a fact that people get wrongly convicted.

Lance has been the most successful cyclist in the past decade and perhaps some resent that, or perhaps the success was due to external factors. It is something in which we may never know the full story.

On a different note, Lance has been the vehicle for a great deal of good especially for those suffering from Cancer and we should not forget the wonderful work Lance has done for those suffering from that dreaded disease. That is an undeniable fact.

A good balanced view of the situation Steve.

It must also be noted that technology in the evaluation of samples have improved over the years in this and other areas (DNA).
The old samples were presented to new technology as unidentified and the results may have been positive.

IMO the actions taken were not without conclusive evidence.

[masterserg]

One word: Ludicrous

[subtona]

floyd landis they say has worn a wire and has video of the doping.... although lance has done a lot of good and considering that perhaps doping is a systemic problem throughout cyclings elite, but there have got to be athletes that are competing with only hard work...the injustice to them is heinous.

[wantonebad]

Anyone who has heard Lance respond to allegations over the last 10 years knows that he would never, under any circumstances fold because he's sick of fighting. If he has indeed given up trying to clear his name then that means something other than "he's just moving on". Lance would never stop fighting, it's not in his nature to acquiesce, ever! They have something on him, clearly.

This from Yahoo's Les Carpenter:

"In the end, Lance Armstrong quit. And no matter how fiercely he writes his statements or fires rockets on Twitter or demands we continue to buy into the fantasy that in a world of doping cyclists he alone was clean and rode faster and stronger, he still quit on Thursday night.


By quitting, he let the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency say he was guilty, say his seven Tour de France championships were as fake as everything else in a dirty sport. Because if he was innocent, if there was some means to battle the organization with no legal power the way he had the U.S. Department of Justice, he would not be letting USADA try to yank the yellow jerseys from his closet.

No way if there’s even a hint of hope does Lance Armstrong let this happen to his name. He was always too proud, too defiant, too stubborn to give up. He beat cancer. He beat the federal government. He beat everything that came his way. He didn’t relent.

If there was a fight to still fight, he would have fought it.

Now we're burned by another fraud masquerading as a hero."

I have to say I find it very hard not to agree, even with all the good he's done JMHO

[Launch Mini]

Saying you've undergone hundreds of tests is different than saying I never took drugs. Maybe they just didn't check for the ones he was using.
I'm just saying the devil is in the details.
Do you remember " I never had sexual relations with...:?

Marion Jones denied denied denied, until she was caught.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

Saying you've undergone hundreds of tests is different than saying I never took drugs.

That's very true, always a very worrying circumstance when a response does not directly respond to the allegation.

[datejust24]

Very unfortunate indeed, even if it is true. A lot of work and dedication to a sport for ultimately, nothing. As was stated, he did devote a lot of effort to cancer research and people suffering from it that shouldn't be overlooked. Just an awful situation all around...

[Passionata]

I think all-yes ALL- professional star using dopes these days ,if you looking for real sportsmen those are only among the amateurs.
Too much money involved .

[kilyung]

I guess he can kiss all his endorsement deals bye-bye.

[JasoninDenver]

The USADA does not have authority to strip the title - their opinion or action has no effect other than being an advisory opinion.

Stripping the title is in the hands of the UCI and the Tour itself. I do not know what action will be taken. Especially in light of the fact that the second place finishers in 4 of the 7 races Lance won also later faced doping suspensions themselves.

Lance doped. It just so happened that he managed to stay one step ahead of the available detection methods at the time. So did a large percentage of his competitors, I hate to say. And I am a cycling fan.

The evidence is overwhelming at this point. From the fact that Lance employed the leading Doctor in doping technology in the late 1990's and early 2000's to the long line of witnesses who would have been testifying against him. The testing techniques that are now used are so much more sophisticated and can even pick up traces of the plastic bags that transfused blood was stored in.

As far as Lance's legacy, it is troubling for me on a personal level. I deplore doping and cheats. I think all of them should be banned for life. Otherwise, how can the 12 year old kid who likes to ride his bike and is really good at it hope to succeed without playing the game.

However, because I was aware of what Lance went through with the testicular cancer, I got something suspicious checked out immediately and got a very early diagnosis of testicular cancer that made all the difference in my treatment and recovery. So, I have benefited from Lance's work.

All in all, I hope he can put these years behind him and take some solace in the opportunity to do good works from here on out. Whether his ego lets him do this is another matter. I do wish him the best.

[Cesium133]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

Stripping the title is in the hands of the UCI and the Tour itself. I do not know what action will be taken. Especially in light of the fact that the second place finishers in 4 of the 7 races Lance won also later faced doping suspensions themselves.

So 3rd place racers will now go down in the record books as the winners of the Tour?

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by Cesium133

So 3rd place racers will now go down in the record books as the winners of the Tour?

The record books will remain blank for these years as they should. Just like the blank baseball hall of fame entry for this year and hopefully until the doping losers are gone from recent memory.

Honestly, anyone that has followed cycling for the last 20 years has waited for this exact moment. From amphetamines in the 60's and 70's to steroids and boosters of recent years, cycling has been marred.

I hope that Lance sincerely apologizes to all of those whom he completely ruined over the years by the power of his denials and the force of his money behind them.

He needs to look at what kind of example he wishes to set for his kids. Anything short of admitting that he lied, slandered and destroyed the lives of people who told the truth would simply be a self-serving PR stunt.

He is ****ing scum until he comes clean. This is from a Texan, a cyclist and a fellow testicular cancer survivor.

I wish him and his family well.

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by kilyung

I guess he can kiss all his endorsement deals bye-bye.

If Rolex can sign Tiger they may also want Lance.

[GradyPhilpott]

It would seem to me that the doping agency would have to have solid evidence that Armstrong broke the rules and not just allegations by others.

They have had stringent testing for years and nothing has been proven against Armstrong.

Since there is nothing at stake except the records, then I can understand that even an innocent man would just throw in the towel and let the chips fall where they may.

It seems as though some are saying that because cycling is a dirty sport, anyone who beats all the dopers seven times must be the biggest doper.

There may be some logic in that, but it is a fallacious argument nonetheless.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

It would seem to me that the doping agency would have to have solid evidence that Armstrong broke the rules and not just allegations by others.

They have had stringent testing for years and nothing has been proven against Armstrong.

Since there is nothing at stake except the records, then I can understand that even an innocent man would just throw in the towel and let the chips fall where they may.

It seems as though some are saying that because cycling is a dirty sport, anyone who beats all the dopers seven times must be the biggest doper.

There may be some logic in that, but it is a fallacious argument nonetheless.

Couldn't disagree more Grady, but then again that seems to be what we have in common isn't it.

[AzPaul]

Moral of the story: Never invest too much faith in your heroes. We're all human.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Couldn't disagree more Grady, but then again that seems to be what we have in common isn't it.

Seems to be!

[Dan Pierce]

Just plain sad all the way around.
dP

[Lisa]

Will be watching closely to see what the UCI will do. Apparently they want more information from the anti-doping agency.

I remember several years ago Lance had been called something of a physiological anomaly - he had low lactic acid production, high oxygen efficiency, and even the unheard of ability to convert his muscle fibers to work more efficiently. Here's the National Geographic article - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...armstrong.html

I agree with Dan - very sad, no matter where the truth lies.

[Bangel]

Originally Posted by Lisa

I agree with Dan - very sad, no matter where the truth lies.

My thoughts as well. I don't really follow cycling and don't really have an opinion on Lance Armstrong, but allegations of cheating always disappoint me.

I also find the discussion fascinating as it illustrates the way we view sportspeople and the role they play in our lives. Are they to be judged purely on their sporting prowess?

Some sports stars are lauded as heroes on the field but have off field misdemeanors which are overlooked by fans (certain Premier League footballers as a stereotypical example). Now Lance Armstrong contrastingly may have cheated on his "field" but to what extent would that taint his legacy given his "off field" commitment to cancer awareness?

[Al1988]

Just out of interest do the USADA have the authority to strip him of his Tour De France titles or would ability lie with the authority behind the Tour de France?

I ask more out of curiosity as I know little about professional cycling

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by Al1988

Just out of interest do the USADA have the authority to strip him of his Tour De France titles or would ability lie with the authority behind the Tour de France?

I ask more out of curiosity as I know little about professional cycling

Not exactly sure of the legal ramifications between those entities.

But the other elephant in the room is the reaction from former endorsers who spent millions and just might want their investment back. What a mess that could be.
dP

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Not exactly sure of the legal ramifications between those entities.

But the other elephant in the room is the reaction from former endorsors who spent millions and just might want their investment back. What a mess that could be.
dP

Prize money too! Which does pale in comparison to endorsers

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Prize money too! Which does pale in comparison to endorsers

And on and on it goes..........

Now does the second place finisher on each of the 7 Tours become the winner by default?
dP