Faingator problems, I need some good advice

[Czechman]

I have a sticky problem and I'm not quite sure how to deal with it so I'm here looking for advice.

I bought a watch from a dishonest seller (opinion only). He has been called out for this before but when I researched this guy I missed the big red flag.

Regardless, he's offering me a refund but I have to return the watch to him first. Ordinarily, if I were dealing with a trusted seller I wouldn't have a problem with this, but in this case I'm dealing with a known dishonest person and I would have absolutely no recourse should he decide to stiff me.

I have offered that, since I have an impeccable reputation for honesty, that the refund should be conducted the same as the original transaction; he wires me the money and I ship the watch to him the same day. I mean, I trusted him to ship the watch, why doesn't it work the other way around?

But no, he insists that I ship the watch back to him before he'll issue a refund and I'm afraid he's going to rip me off again. Oh, and please do not ask for his name because that's not the issue at this time. That'll come later.

Thanks.

[Frosty]

Ouch! I feel your pain

I do not know if it is possible on a watch, but, I did an escrow with a car. He sent them the money and when they received it I signed over the car. He O. K.'ed the car. They then released the funds to me. He was in another country.

I think I would also have someone else wrap it, take pictures of the wrapping, and ship it USPS. That way you would have some documentation of what you sent back.

[Welshwatchman]

Since going back in time is not an option, I'd opt for an insistence that he wire the money prior to the return of the unsatisfactory watch.

I assume he's not a well regarded member here.

A trip to the seller's residence/place of work would also be on the table.

[springer]

Originally Posted by welshwatchman

since going back in time is not an option, i'd opt for an insistence that he wire the money prior to the return of the unsatisfactory watch.

I assume he's not a well regarded member here.

A trip to the seller's residence/place of work would also be on the table.

x2.

[crowncollection]

we have cash on delivery via the post office in Australia, i am not sure if you have a similar service, you send it and he has to pay the post office before they hand it over too him. Just a thought, it may not be an option in the USA.

[imono]

Dishonest in what way?
In the description of the goods?
At least he is offering you to return for refund.
What would you do in his shoes?
Would the seller risk it by keeping it all?
If he keeps it all then it is easy to flame his name.

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by imono

Dishonest in what way?
In the description of the goods?
At least he is offering you to return for refund.
What would you do in his shoes?
Would the seller risk it by keeping it all?
If he keeps it all then it is easy to flame his name.

Dishonest in that the watch is described as "keeping time properly with no mechanical issues" when in fact it is running 15 sec fast per day and needs a service that he is unwilling to pay for. And he's done this before.

What would I do if I were in his shoes? I would do the same thing I've done in my business for 35 years. First of all I'd never misrepresent to make a sale and secondly, knowing that the person I'm dealing with is honest I'd send the refund to protect my reputation.

What would I do if I were him? I'd probably do exactly what he's doing.

Seller risks nothing by keeping it all or better yet keeping part of it saying the watch was not in the same condition as it was when he sold it. Flame his name? I want my money back not 15 minutes of name calling resulting in nothing other than the thread being locked and I'm out $6k.

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

we have cash on delivery via the post office in Australia, i am not sure if you have a similar service, you send it and he has to pay the post office before they hand it over too him. Just a thought, it may not be an option in the USA.

COD means when the postman hands you the package, you hand him money. Seller wants to examine the watch before refunding. Good idea though, thanks.

[Rogdogg]

I would definitely look into the escrow idea and David's suggestion to look into the cash on delivery postal option is great. That sounds like a very useful option the Aussies have for purchasing over the post. I'd be surprised if the USPS hasn't got something similar.

Would a face-to-face be too difficult? Even if you had to make a weekend away out of it. Bring your significant other with you and have a good time. Kill 2 birds with one stone.
I feel for you though. That's a difficult situation you find yourself in.

[kilyung]

I'd fly there and do it in person. The cost/loss of the tix is a small price to pay.

[Kanger]

Did this transaction take place on TRF? What is wrong with the watch and how has the seller been dishonest? These are all information that can help us chime in. Is the seller a TRF member/TRF seller? I am also in North Carolina, is there anyway I can help you with this transaction?

[perpetualman88]

Originally Posted by kanger

, is there anyway I can help you with this transaction?

wow really nice offer Daniel this is why I like TRF

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by kanger

Did this transaction take place on TRF? What is wrong with the watch and how has the seller been dishonest? These are all information that can help us chime in. Is the seller a TRF member/TRF seller? I am also in North Carolina, is there anyway I can help you with this transaction?

Hi Dan,
Yes, the transaction took place on TRF.
The watch was described as having no mechanical issues when, in fact, it needs a service.
Yes, the seller is a TRF member/seller.
What could you do to help? Short of being an intermediary in the exchange I don't know what anyone could do.

See all those watches in my signature? Almost all were bought and sold here on TRF without a single problem. This is all new to me.

[perpetualman88]

Originally Posted by Czechman

Hi Dan,
Yes, the transaction took place on TRF.
The watch was described as having no mechanical issues when, in fact, it needs a service.
Yes, the seller is a TRF member/seller.
What could you do to help? Short of being an intermediary in the exchange I don't know what anyone could do.

See all those watches in my signature? Almost all were bought and sold here on TRF without a single problem. This is all new to me.

Just out of curiosity
how do you know the watch needs a service? is the watch running fast or slow? Perhaps it just needs to be regulated.
Hope you get the issue resolved

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by perpetualman88

Just out of curiosity
how do you know the watch needs a service? is the watch running fast or slow? Perhaps it just needs to be regulated.
Hope you get the issue resolved

I took the watch to my Rolex AD and spoke to my watchmaker, a Rolex trained watchmaker who looked at the watch and told me that when they start running like mine it's a symptom of a bigger problem. He will regulate the watch against his better judgement but no guarantee.

But all of this is beside the point. I'm only looking for advice on how to assure that I get a refund from a known dishonest seller without risk of him stiffing me full or part.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Czechman

I took the watch to my Rolex AD and spoke to my watchmaker, a Rolex trained watchmaker who looked at the watch and told me that when they start running like mine it's a symptom of a bigger problem. He will regulate the watch against his better judgement but no guarantee.

But all of this is beside the point. I'm only looking for advice on how to assure that I get a refund from a known dishonest seller without risk of him stiffing me full or part.

I think you have been advised by several people, pick one and good luck

[bayerische]

More info would be great, to what extent you were "tricked"...

Could be a risk sending the watch back without your money. Dishonest once... Dishonest twice...

I think the seller should take the risk.

[djemmtee]

Originally Posted by kilyung

I'd fly there and do it in person. The cost/loss of the tix is a small price to pay.

I agree with kilyung.

[train-time]

If he's a regular seller I do not see him risking his reputation to scam you. TRF members can be rather persuasive in getting the right result in these situations.

I recall this happening with one of the TRF sellers before. If it's the same guy, he just buys on eBay low and raises the price to resell on TRF. Obviously there is no service done on the pieces bought and sold by this seller.

[Gaijin]

Perhaps he/she will make it right or chime in here. Hope it works out for you. I am sure that it will.

[kilyung]

I always worry when sellers post descriptions if they're being completely accurate as condition descriptions are so subjective. That's why I always demand detailed photos unless I've dealt with the seller and understand their ratings definitions. If it's a regular seller, I'd expect timing to be verified by a timegrapher at a minimum. In any case, I hope it gets sorted out Woody.

[joseluu]

The deal is done. To undo it, I am afraid you are more or less in his hands and will have to do it his way. Otherwise, he may turn down every proposal you may put forward, no matter how logical it may sound.

[RRsDJ]

Sorry you're having to go through this. This is why I'm hesitant of doing a wire transfer. Hate to say it buy Paypal is great when situations like this arise and as a buyer I'd only use Paypal.

Hope it all works out and fast. Good luck Woody!


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[Kanger]

I think by looking at your post history it's pretty clear who the seller is. It seems there was an identical issue a while back, same issue with timekeeping. Anyway I'm a short drive away, if you need a second opinion with my watchmaker, or just need advice in general, feel free to PM me or email me and I'll do my best to help.

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by kanger

I think by looking at your post history it's pretty clear who the seller is. It seems there was an identical issue a while back, same issue with timekeeping. Anyway I'm a short drive away, if you need a second opinion with my watchmaker, or just need advice in general, feel free to PM me or email me and I'll do my best to help.

Thanks Dan, I'll let you know. Once I get this mess sorted out I'm in the market for a black sub. I'd offer to trade but it's like... you know

[Gaijin]

Does not sound like he has ripped you off yet. If it is who I think it is he will refund your money. He just wants the watch back first to check the condition I imagine before refunding you.

Leap of faith. Like any internet transaction but I think that you will be fine.

[chicfarmer1]

If this is a TRF seller with a repeat history on a matter like this, you should alert the mods. They may already be tracking sellers who have disputes with members.

[R_Ongjoco]

I'm surprised people still deal with that seller after that thread on him. IMO, even after he refunds you your money, this timekeeping situation should still be posted on the boards, together with his username as to alert future would-be-buyers of that guy. I would hate to be that buyer who has to be the one in fifty that has a bad deal with that seller.

As for your situation, as gaijin said, it's just a leap of faith. There's really nothing you can do now except trust the seller that he will refund your money back.

[R_Ongjoco]

Originally Posted by R_Ongjoco

I'm surprised people still deal with that seller after that thread on him. IMO, even after he refunds you your money, this timekeeping situation should still be posted on the boards, together with his username as to alert future would-be-buyers of that guy. I would hate to be that buyer who has to be the one in fifty that has a bad deal with that seller.

[Gaijin]

TRF is not responsible for what goes bad in a transaction here. Nor should they be. They are merely generously providing us with a platform to buy and sell.


From the rules :


The Buy/Sell Board is solely for the use of "The Rolex Forums" (TRF) members as a convenience to members who wish to purchase, sell, or trade watches and watch related paraphernalia only. It is not to be used for any commercial purposes.

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