Rolex Corporate Direction (A Friendly Discussion)

[Tools]

The past couple of years have been eye-opening at Basel and elsewhere.. Rolex seems to be on a course that I'm just not sure I can get on board with..

I do think that they have released some spectacular watches.. The new Explorer II is an example - but they almost didn't release it and have not done much to market it..

Other watches that I think could be winners for Rolex, like the Sky Dweller, the new ceramic Daytonas, the new bracelets; they are making only in precious metals and attach stratospheric price-tags on or will not sell modern bracelets and clasps for upgrading early models.. Not a way to keep the faithful who line their corporate coffers..

But this year... the colors the choices (or lack of).. What the heck !!!!

They're trotting out 70's Beach Daytona colors (we know how well those sold) with green, salmon (when did a fish become a color) hot pinks, and all manner of gold inlaid gem encrusted dials.

There is no innovation in simply proclaiming "Seven new colored dials for the Day-Date" !!! Hardly earth-shaking or even interesting at a major Watch Fair like Basel. Even proclaiming a "new anniversary" Daytona that is nothing more than last years model in platinum wrapping.. Oh, and the ever increasing base prices.. They're now more than double what they were only a short decade ago..

Who is their target customer.. I will have to say that I just don't know any more.. It isn't me and I've been wearing Rolex for more than 30 years..

[JP Chestnut]

Interesting thread. IMO Rolex is a mass market company. Their target market is people with enough money to buy an expensive watch - watch enthusiasts would be a far distant second. I think Rolex is progressing in exactly the same direction that they have been for at least the last 10 years.

They're cashing in on their heritage and enormous brand value while producing ever more expensive jewelry watches. With that said, there is still more to like from current Rolex than with most other modern brands.

Also, Rolex has been producing ghastly models for a long time - the "poo-tona" (as some would call it) is just the most recent in a long line.

[tomchicago]

i want to see MORE DIAMONDS and even more precious metals. Solid Rhodium completely encrusted with diamonds, rubies, etc. Solid Rhodium Daytona full serti on all facets (including inside the case) as well as serti hands (all hands).

[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by tomchicago

i want to see MORE DIAMONDS and even more precious metals. Solid Rhodium completely encrusted with diamonds, rubies, etc. Solid Rhodium Daytona full serti on all facets (including inside the case) as well as serti hands (all hands).

Mate.. AP already answered your quest. Check out AP RO Tuxedo.

[perpetualman88]

In alot of ways I think your right Larry.

One thing I truly love about Patek is they think about the collector when designing a new time pieces. Alot of thought on what the market demands is put into each watch that Patek designs.

With Rolex it seems that $$$$ value is leading the design process.

[77T]

Target markets come and target markets go. The target market of 1990 and 2000 are aging out and eventually dying. Their collections will eventually enter the pre-owned stream.

The new targets may be younger, mobile, trendy, highly leveraged and I think the new colorful DD's could appeal.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by 77T

Target markets come and target markets go. The target market of 1990 and 2000 are aging out and eventually dying. Their collections will eventually enter the pre-owned stream.

The new targets may be younger, mobile, trendy, highly leveraged and I think the new colorful DD's could appeal.

We also can't ignore the rise of Asia as a source of sales for Rolex and other brands. Whenever I see a watch that 100% doesn't appeal to me, I wonder "is this being made to satisfy demand in Asia"?

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by Tools

Attachment 382161

The past couple of years have been eye-opening at Basel and elsewhere.. Rolex seems to be on a course that I'm just not sure I can get on board with..

I do think that they have released some spectacular watches.. The new Explorer II is an example - but they almost didn't release it and have not done much to market it..

Other watches that I think could be winners for Rolex, like the Sky Dweller, the new ceramic Daytonas, the new bracelets; they are making only in precious metals and attach stratospheric price-tags on or will not sell modern bracelets and clasps for upgrading early models.. Not a way to keep the faithful who line their corporate coffers..

But this year... the colors the choices (or lack of).. What the heck !!!!

They're trotting out 70's Beach Daytona colors (we know how well those sold) with green, salmon (when did a fish become a color) hot pinks, and all manner of gold inlaid gem encrusted dials.

There is no innovation in simply proclaiming "Seven new colored dials for the Day-Date" !!! Hardly earth-shaking or even interesting at a major Watch Fair like Basel. Even proclaiming a "new anniversary" Daytona that is nothing more than last years model in platinum wrapping.. Oh, and the ever increasing base prices.. They're now more than double what they were only a short decade ago..

Who is their target customer.. I will have to say that I just don't know any more.. It isn't me and I've been wearing Rolex for more than 30 years..

Completely agree. A new direction is needed. Badly.

Originally Posted by 77T

The new targets may be younger, mobile, trendy, highly leveraged and I think the new colorful DD's could appeal.

+

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

.....I wonder "is this being made to satisfy demand in Asia"?

+1 on the Asia theory. Seems to be the Asian market likes 'different' colors. Salmon/Baby blue/Pink = NOT interested, Barf.

[WyoWatch]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

We also can't ignore the rise of Asia as a source of sales for Rolex and other brands. Whenever I see a watch that 100% doesn't appeal to me, I wonder "is this being made to satisfy demand in Asia"?

This could be part of it. Take Omega for example - the constellation line is the biggest seller over in Asia and Americans won't hardly touch it.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

We also can't ignore the rise of Asia as a source of sales for Rolex and other brands. Whenever I see a watch that 100% doesn't appeal to me, I wonder "is this being made to satisfy demand in Asia"?

That's the market right there. Rolex is designing it's models to satisfy the Asian market, point blank....

[sierra11b]

Originally Posted by Tools

Attachment 382161
Who is their target customer.. I will have to say that I just don't know any more.. It isn't me and I've been wearing Rolex for more than 30 years..

^THIS.

I haven't worn a Rolex nearly as long but will get back to vintage that brought me to Rolex in the first place. I'll likely acquire a birth year 16750 or Tudor Sub, then gracefully walk into the sunset without looking back on Rolex ever again.

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

We also can't ignore the rise of Asia as a source of sales for Rolex and other brands. Whenever I see a watch that 100% doesn't appeal to me, I wonder "is this being made to satisfy demand in Asia"?

X 100000

[DrLindaPhD]

Originally Posted by 77T

Target markets come and target markets go. The target market of 1990 and 2000 are aging out and eventually dying. Their collections will eventually enter the pre-owned stream.

The new targets may be younger, mobile, trendy, highly leveraged and I think the new colorful DD's could appeal.

Could you think of a different way of saying this.....
The target market of 1990 and 2000 are aging out and eventually dying.

.......kind of scares me ! ! ! !

[HauteHorlogerie]

Interesting post. I would tend to agree partially. But Like JP mentioned rolex is one course and staying within the direction they have been for the past decade. I think they're cementing themselves in a market where the customer is indeed people with enough money to buy something expensive...the sky dweller was a neat complication and all but I think their focus has been a little disappointing for long rolex collectors/wearers. Especially people who are watch enthusiast/WIS..including myself. But lets face it, rolex is huge.

A sausage factory (did I just say that on here)....anyways yeah they're a mass market company. Definately making fashion pieces with good movements but they're always on the verge of loosing their tool watch status...which is what made me fall in love with them years ago..I don't know. I still love the brand. Basel was okay this year, love the new SS YM II...I just want to see more. But hey it's gonna be a few more years before I get fed up and walk away from the brand completely.

Also agree with the new target market, younger people who are getting to the point where they can afford a Rolex may in fact love where the brand is going. Myself, being in my early 20s does not, but I'm not everyone. I grew up loving old gmt's, old pateks and am a watch nerd.

[Brandon(phila)]

Seems like women is their new target audience.
Seems like what used to be a mans Day Date is all colorful now and full of diamonds.

Even the Daytona....it's nice looking watch, but probably better looking on a woman's wrist.

I am not knocking women's watches or women who wear watches, but they should have given more for a man to choose from.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by Brandon(phila)

Seems like women is their new target audience.
Seems like what used to be a mans Day Date is all colorful now and full of diamonds.

Even the Daytona....it's nice looking watch, but probably better looking on a woman's wrist.

I am not knocking women's watches or women who wear watches, but they should have given more for a man to choose from.

I agree that recently it looks like Rolex has targeted women, though I think men already have plenty of choice - several 36mm/41mm Datejusts and Day-Dates, the 36/39mm Exps, two 42mm Exp IIs, different GMTs (black, TT, full gold and the new Day-Night), different Subs (black, green, TT and full gold) , the Deepsea, several YM versions, a few YM IIs, three Milgausses, the Sky-Dwellers and several Daytonas.

Also many Air Kings, though I've learned from another current thread that this has been reclassified by Rolex as a ladies' model. Still, I'm sure that won't stop men who find the AK appealing.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

Also many Air Kings, though I've learned from another current thread that this has been reclassified by Rolex as a ladies' model. Still, I'm sure that won't stop men who find the AK appealing.

Rolex has not "re-classified" the Air-King as a Ladies model.. They simply now provide colored and jeweled dials that were designed with a Ladies tastes in mind.. They have done the same with the Day-Date and the Datejust and Daytona...

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Brandon(phila)

Even the Daytona....it's nice looking watch, but probably better looking on a woman's wrist.

My wife is probably getting a meteorite Daytona as her next watch.

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by Tools

Attachment 382161

The past couple of years have been eye-opening at Basel and elsewhere.. Rolex seems to be on a course that I'm just not sure I can get on board with..

I do think that they have released some spectacular watches.. The new Explorer II is an example - but they almost didn't release it and have not done much to market it..

Other watches that I think could be winners for Rolex, like the Sky Dweller, the new ceramic Daytonas, the new bracelets; they are making only in precious metals and attach stratospheric price-tags on or will not sell modern bracelets and clasps for upgrading early models.. Not a way to keep the faithful who line their corporate coffers..

But this year... the colors the choices (or lack of).. What the heck !!!!

They're trotting out 70's Beach Daytona colors (we know how well those sold) with green, salmon (when did a fish become a color) hot pinks, and all manner of gold inlaid gem encrusted dials.

There is no innovation in simply proclaiming "Seven new colored dials for the Day-Date" !!! Hardly earth-shaking or even interesting at a major Watch Fair like Basel. Even proclaiming a "new anniversary" Daytona that is nothing more than last years model in platinum wrapping.. Oh, and the ever increasing base prices.. They're now more than double what they were only a short decade ago..

Who is their target customer.. I will have to say that I just don't know any more.. It isn't me and I've been wearing Rolex for more than 30 years..

very interesting what the team at Rolex is doing. personally im not a fan of some of this years offerings. but i guess overall i do like their tool watches.

it would be nice to own a DD2 someday, but if i was to get one it would probably be fairly vanilla in terms of style.

As for who they are making watches for.....if I had to guess I think they are trying to attract the China market. Most of these type of watches would be quite appealing to them.

before anyone jumps on me says I'm stereotyping please know that i am chinese

[HL65]

What attracted many to Rolex was an affinity to timeless, durable, well built tool watches. The company is clearly moving in a direction that pleases the masses and leaves some behind. That is ok with me as my passion for Rolex lies in it's watches of yesterday not today or tomorrow. It is a good thing there are choices for us as consumers/collectors so regardless of our likes we have options. Do I agree with the direction Rolex is going in? I guess it doesn't much matter as they clearly know what they are doing. I am just thankful for the deep rich history they left us with their great designs over the many years--with the 50-70's being my favorite! Great thread Larry! Cheers,

[Roller07]

I haven't been wearing Rolex as long as you have but I feel a little disappointed after yesterday. I know Rolex doesn't want to come out with a new model each year because then they will become like some of the lesser valued watch companies that have 30 different models with 100 different variations within each model line. I like this about Rolex.

I know people are different and if we all liked the same things life would be extremely boring, but with the direction Rolex is going each year, I find it harder and harder to find a Rolex that I like.

I am a huge sports watch fan but I don't like a sports watch made of precious metals and I really don't like PCLs on a sports watch. And don't get me started on ceramic bezel inserts for sports watches. I do own a 116610LVc and love it immensely, but it will be the ONLY sports watch I have with a ceramic bezel....................hopefully.

Luckily, there is always next year.

And by the way, I loved your comment "Salmon (when did a fish become a color). That made my day.

[WyoWatch]

The new GMT looks ok. The Daytona would have looked ok with a black bezel and subdials not brown. The YMII (at one time dubbed the clownmaster) was bad in precious metals, it's just as bad in SS. The rest of the DDs with their poor color choices are horrid as well.

I'm with you Larry, I'm definitely not their target customer anymore. I always loved the classic tool watches and I even like the newer Explorer II and blue dial Yachtmaster but this year was a whole other story...

[nauticajoe]

If I had to choose from the watches released, it would only be the GMT. The others....ehhh. I'll wait for next year.

[SRQ]

Totally agree with Larry. Make a ss Sky Dweller, e.g. OK, a ss YM II, but at what price? My guess is at least 50% more than a Sub. I still would like to add another Rolex or 2 (or 3, etc.!) to my watch collection, but they will have to be pre-owned classics. Nothing wrong with that, but would like to be able to at least consider a new watch from an AD. And jeweled watches for men? My wife loves her diamond bezel day-date, but I am way too conservative for that.

[MrLee]

Yeh seriously questioning their design team lately. What are the new dd variants all about, just tacky and dated. And yes the new daytona is to me a ladies watch, but with a really bad colour combination, again quite tacky.

There has been some great upgrades in recent years, i love the sub/gmt upgrades and the dd2, but these were based on absolute classics, so it would have been hard to get these too wrong.

Also a lot of the newer watches such as the skyd and yachtmaster 2 just dont quite work from an aesthetic point of view as perhaps they could have. And colour combinations seem just wrong sometimes, the Daytona has had some frankly awful iterations in recent years

They seem to be going down a very tacky road that I feel ultimately will make them a comedic brand

[Armyguy03]

Some solid points. Being only 34 years young, I can see a lot more women making more money than many men I know, and many being the sole bread winner. Rolex could be targeting their pockets with a few watches that would wear better. A few of the DD's definitely have a touch of femininity to them (and being on a leather strap makes them affordable to many), although some men would like them as well. I enjoy the simplicity of the older models, and am thankful that I have been able to afford and purchase the ones that have caught my eye and heart.

Excellent thread Larry, and I can't wait for the day I can say I've been wearing Rolex watches for 30 years!

[wohlfecc]

I agree with Knappo1307, but it would be interesting to hear this from the horse's mouth, kind of like Omega did when they revamped their Constellation line, esp. for a particular market.

Maybe it's all so obvious it's not worth saying, but it would at least speak to target audiences elsewhere to inform them that they are still important customers. One big difference- I don't think Rolex cares too much about short term customer interests, as they seem to move more slowly. As long as customers keep buying whatever their designers dream up, it's in a way justified.

[MrLee]

Originally Posted by wohlfecc

I agree with Knappo1307, but it would be interesting to hear this from the horse's mouth, kind of like Omega did when they revamped their Constellation line, esp. for a particular market.

Maybe it's all so obvious it's not worth saying, but it would at least speak to target audiences elsewhere to inform them that they are still important customers. One big difference- I don't think Rolex cares too much about short term customer interests, as they seem to move more slowly. As long as customers keep buying whatever their designers dream up, it's in a way justified.

And this is the problem, the name is papering over a poor design teams 'creations', how long that lasts is anyone's guess

[wohlfecc]

Originally Posted by MrLee

And this is the problem, the name is papering over a poor design teams 'creations', how long that lasts is anyone's guess

There are probably equal numbers of business cases out there pointing in either direction. Rolex is revealing their hand every year, but since they are private it will probably be harder to judge how successful they are in execution.

I say vote with your wallet- if you still like the brand, stick with the old design used market and rant away here. If you want whatever is newest, you'll probably convince yourself that the new designs are worth your cash. And in time if your tastes change, the used pieces will always be there for you to buy... or a seller will be there to buy your "mistake"!

[skippy1]

I think we need to think about one thing here. No offense to anyone who owns the following watches but the 36mm DD and to a large extent the Daytona (especially in precious metal) are quickly becoming women’s watches. (Just look at what the Hollywood types are wearing.) With this in mind, Rolex went in the girly direction with these models. Now I've never seen a picture of a woman wearing a GMT-C, (there might be some out there I've just can't ever remember seeing one.) So, Rolex clearly went with a more masculine combination for what is the man’s watch. I don't particularly like the combination but that is what I think they went with. I am also not convinced Rolex believes the big watch thing will be here forever. Because of this big watch skepticism I think they kept their bread and butter watches (Sub, GMT) at 40mm and just gave them fatter lugs to give them the illusion of being bigger. If things head back toward more traditionally sized watches it is probably a simple fix to just take a bit of size off those lugs without redesigning a whole new watch. If tastes do go back toward smaller watches and more men start looking at the 36mm and precious metal watches again they will just start making those more masculine again.

Just one opinion

[Furbo]

As long as I like at least one model from Rolex (5 for me right now), that is fine with me.

It's impossible for anyone to like ALL Rolex offerings, because they are made to satisfy different tastes.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what all the whining is about.