Opinions on this Red Sub

[SMC84]

Colleague is trying to raise some quick cash by selling this 1680 Red Sub he inherited from his dad. He asked me if I'd be interested before he heads to a pawn shop. I've seen it plenty of times before in person but he sent me these crummy pics tonight before we get together tomorrow so I thought I'd share before I make a decision. Without any comments from me and only seeing these couple crappy pics, what opinions do you guys have? (Don't mind the fossil bracelet he has it on )

[dirk67]

I'm no Red Sub expert, but what's going on with the bracelet?

It's hard to tell from the photos if there is damage on the dial.

[SUBversive]

No red sub expert here either. Iam truly impressed when the resident experts weigh in. But that bracelet made me barf.

[KellyM3]

Sigh...

Really?

I mean...really?

[drainaps]

Hi there,
Pics are less than detailed, so I'll stand to be corrected on what's coming next.

It looks like not too much money has been spent in servicing the watch, which might be a blessing in disguise for original dial and insert, and little polishing.

There seems to be rust in the lower part of the rehaut (second pic). If watch has been in contact with water, that's already a strike out, unless the price is really attractive.

Hands are hiding most of the writing in the dial, so difficult to assess anything reliably but looks like a Mark IV. Lume looks in good shape, but better pics are needed for a better assessment. Serial no is needed to see if dial matches case.

Nice fat font bezel insert, as it should be.

Case seems ok and with little polishing. Crown guards are overpolished. You can see a nice lug chamfer in one of the pics. Plexy is obviously trashed, but no big deal.

If, as you say, you know the seller and it was his father's, provided no water damage, serial checks and no replacement dial, I'd buy it.

You will obviously need a matching bracelet, but that would not stop me from buying it.

[etp095]

You surely would give him more than a pawn shop,i'd tell him to get a price from the pawn shop,then offer $500 above their buy price.Expect to put another $500-$600 bucks on a service,including a crystal replacement.It has a nice faded bezel insert,the third pic shows a chamfer on the top right lug to my eyes,The hands match the dial.The date magnifier looks kinda weird,might just be the angle of the camera.

[SUBversive]

Why are all three pics taken on different backgrounds?

[secondhandcrowns]

Looks great. Offer him $5000.00

[Beaumont Miller II]

What I can tell you: appears to be a Mk IV red sub that should be valued as a head only likely in need of a service.
What I can't tell you: whether the dial is correct for the serial number of the watch, whether the dial has lume issues such as flaking or chipping, or whether the case is a reasonable example.
Better pictures and some homework will answer the question regarding value.

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by beaumont miller ii

what i can tell you: Appears to be a mk iv red sub that should be valued as a head only likely in need of a service.
What i can't tell you: Whether the dial is correct for the serial number of the watch, whether the dial has lume issues such as flaking or chipping, or whether the case is a reasonable example.
Better pictures and some homework will answer the question regarding value.

+1

[bluemartinifan]

Cant comment on dial, top crown guard is over polished, lugs retain some original chamfer, nice insert. I agree with others re budget in a $500 service, my max price would be $5,500 - $6,000.

[SMC84]

Thanks for the opinions. Was curious to see what comments were made from just these photos.

The watch is very well worn, but as far as I can tell, it is original and in dire need of a service.

Negatives include the bit of rust on the rehaut, the crystal is beat to hell, and it needs a bracelet. Also, the top crown guard is polished down and uneven with the bottom, although the lugs are still fairly thick and have a visible chamfer.

Positives are that it's an original owner watch and I know the owner and the dial is beautiful with matching hands.

No idea what condition the movement is in.

Originally Posted by secondhandcrowns

Looks great. Offer him $5000.00

I have been offered the watch for less than $5k...

[SMC84]

Cropped the original higher res photos for a better look at the dial.

[drainaps]

Originally Posted by SMC84

Negatives include the bit of rust on the rehaut, the crystal is beat to hell, and it needs a bracelet.

I have been offered the watch for less than $5k...

This confirms my comment earlier on rust. In a 1680, there can be rust from water staying under the bezel and entering the case that way. It might not necessarily be major, but in this case it is necessary to open the watch and assess potential damage to the movement and the dial. I would not spend the sub-5K (a great price, by the way, but you are in these forums, so you already know without us telling you) without having a peep inside.

If rust had affected the dial, and its difficult to tell without taking the dial out, it would be strike out for me.

[etp095]

Less than 5k sounds like a nice deal.A pawn shop sure won't come close to paying him 5k.
Good luck to you.

[Vincent65]

I think under 5K is a good deal on this, if it is all legit. Forget the crystal, bracelet and other trivial superficial elements, for now. I'd factor in a grand for service. The apparent 'rust' seen under the crystal/top edge of rehaut is common, as with a little corrosion of the hands. Doesn't mean the watch was flooded. It could be a little moisture in the air, allowed in over the years, especially if the crown was left open for long periods. Check it out, to be sure, as said already. But the discolouration can also be dirt (sweat and skin scum - I call it 'quag') accumulated under the bezel, and up against the knackered crystal. I reckon it would clean up great with a new crystal, bracelet and a decent service. You know the provenance, which is good.

PS the pics are crap, so it's hard to tell re detail on the dial case etc.

[BaltimoreBrian]

Since you already have a 1680, you are in good shape to assess the watch. Is the date wheel silver? I can't quite tell from the pics.

I would also guess a Mark IV, but would love to see the "ft" on the dial.

[SMC84]

So here she is, the spring bars literally fell apart when I removed that Fossil bracelet. Still don't know what it looks like under the hood but the dial sure looks to be in great shape. 2.5m serial.

[SMC84]

With my 2.6m Sub.

[gt0279a]

Watch is going to looking fantastic once you get a new crystal on it.

I've had that happen to spring bars on a vintage Tudor I bought. One the ends fell off and the other just crumbled in half.

[BaltimoreBrian]

great find! Definitely a mark4 and am excited for you. These are the exciting kinds of finds and purchases we love to hear about. Look forward to seeing the movement and inside the caseback!

[SUBversive]

Just realized I need better colleagues

[drainaps]

Confirmed, it's a go after a peep under the hood.

[Robbyvm]

The dial looks nice but the case looks to have been polished by a butcher... The difference in the crownguards is incredible

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Robbyvm

The dial looks nice but the case looks to have been polished by a butcher... The difference in the crownguards is incredible

A Rolex butcher Robby

HAGOne

[Mark020]

Originally Posted by robbyvm

the dial looks nice but the case looks to have been polished by a butcher... The difference in the crownguards is incredible

+1.

[Vincent65]

lovely, but shame about the CG issue. Wanna sell the insert?!

[TimeToGo]

Congratulations!

Excellent find!

[Puffy]

looks shot to bits but the case can be salvaged to make it look nice. the crown guards are beyond repair though but no biggie

new crystal, period correct bezel ring and it'll be OK for a daily wearer