Rolex NO ETA / TUDOR ETA .. I don't get it.

[Foiel]

Hello,
I was looking at the beautiful Tudor Black Bay.. I think its vintage looking is wonderful!Especially with worn effect leather strap or the tissue one! But i was impressed that Tudor even if it's a part of Rolex still uses ETA movement which are kind of disapponting to the prestige from my point of view.. I thought they used Rolex movements! ETA is a mass used movement from all the Swatch Group brand (like Omega and others) and also many other producers which for me takes off some of the magic exclusivity for example a Patek or Rolex or any other company producing inhouse movements!

ETA gets installed also from my other high range watch brand.. They just produce case/strap and all other external components then they just buy ETA and they modify it but it's not their movement! That's not prestige for me! Rolex instead make 100 % inhouse movement.. This is real prestige

Am I correct regarding ETA? Could you please explain me more about it or it's just the way i described it..

[Wahlberg]

You need to look at the positioning of the brand and what Rolex is trying to do.


Why would they add a Rolex movement? If they did that the watch had to be more expensive (same or close to a Submariner) and then no one would buy them because they rather get an actual Rolex.


Or: If they gave it a rolex movement and kept it at the same price EVERYONE would start buying them because it's so much bang for buck (which it is already with the ETA movement).

[Dan Pierce]

Apparently Tudor is not up to your "prestige" standards. If status trumps everything else then Rolex is where you should concentrate your efforts.

I however, have no problem with the use of chronometer grade ETA movements in my Tudor watches. They've preformed as consistently and flawlessly as any Rolex I've owned. Plus I enjoy Tudor's more adventurous design approach. To each their own.
dP

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Apparently Tudor is not up to your "prestige" standards. If status trumps everything else then Rolex is where you should concentrate your efforts.

I however, have no problem with the use of chronometer grade ETA movements in my Tudor watches. They've preformed as consistently and flawlessly as any Rolex I've owned. Plus I enjoy Tudor's more adventurous design approach. To each their own.
dP

Agree 100% DP! Not to mention how durable and precise their Valjoux's are in my vintage Daytona's, Tudors and Omega's!!!!

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Apparently Tudor is not up to your "prestige" standards. If status trumps everything else then Rolex is where you should concentrate your efforts.

I however, have no problem with the use of chronometer grade ETA movements in my Tudor watches. They've preformed as consistently and flawlessly as any Rolex I've owned. Plus I enjoy Tudor's more adventurous design approach. To each their own.
dP

Very, very well said Dan. I've worked on some ETA movements and the 2824 was one of my favorite, it was a pretty accurate one and well built in my humble opinion.

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Agree 100% DP! Not to mention how durable and precise their Valjoux's are in my vintage Daytona's, Tudors and Omega's!!!!

Indeed my friend, as far as I know Rolex's good reputation regarding the quality of their movements was earned before they started making fully in-house ones, just like Patek.

I think the stigma associated with ETA is pretty much like the one associated with Seiko or Grand Seiko, everybody is entitled to his opinion but I think a lot would probably change their mind if they read more about those names. Rolex does make some great reliable watches but they're not the only ones, even if the others don't make every single component of their timepieces.

[MCV]

Originally Posted by dan pierce

apparently tudor is not up to your "prestige" standards. If status trumps everything else then rolex is where you should concentrate your efforts.

I however, have no problem with the use of chronometer grade eta movements in my tudor watches. They've preformed as consistently and flawlessly as any rolex i've owned. Plus i enjoy tudor's more adventurous design approach. To each their own.
Dp

+1!

[francis]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Apparently Tudor is not up to your "prestige" standards. If status trumps everything else then Rolex is where you should concentrate your efforts.

I however, have no problem with the use of chronometer grade ETA movements in my Tudor watches. They've preformed as consistently and flawlessly as any Rolex I've owned. Plus I enjoy Tudor's more adventurous design approach. To each their own.
dP

Indeed. I have no problem with the non chronometer grade ETA's... The ones I have are at least equal to any Rolex I have had or have... My Hamilton's accuracy and consistency are only rivaled by my Omega..

[kilyung]

If you're hung up on the movement, get the Rolex. However if you want a great looking and reliable watch at a great value, get the Tudor.

[Thebiglagu]

Originally Posted by kilyung

if you're hung up on the movement, get the rolex. However if you want a great looking and reliable watch at a great value, get the tudor.

+1

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by kilyung

If you're hung up on the movement, get the Rolex. However if you want a great looking and reliable watch at a great value, get the Tudor.

+1 - ETA's are time tested workhorses that are just fine in my book. Plus, if you look into it, each movement model comes in several levels of quality and the price of the movement is adjusted accordingly. So just because someone like Helson uses the 2824-2 movement in a $1000 watch doesn't mean it's the same variant of the movement used by Tudor in the BB or Pelagos that are priced closer to $4k. The fit and finish, and QC on these latter watches is much higher too.

[Mystro]

Other than your psychological hangups regarding the ETA movement, why do you think the Rolex movement is superior????


My PO has gone 45 days at 0 seconds + or -. It was well documented on another forum. I eventually stopped taking morning pics because it seemed the accuracy wasn't changing. I don't think I have seen a more accurate automatic that was documented.

[Jason71]

The ETA movement in my Black Bay must be highly modified or it must have been adjusted to COSC standards before it left the Rolex / Tudor facility. It keeps incredibly accurate time. It is only 1 second fast and I set it the first of the week. I just don't know how you couldn't be happy with a watch like this that is priced in the sub $3,000 range.

[Mikegp]

You can't expect to pay Tudor price and get rolex quality.

It's like asking "why does my $15k Fiat doesn't have the engine of a Ferrari, if Fiat owns both companies?"

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Mikegp

You can't expect to pay Tudor price and get rolex quality.

It's like asking "why does my $15k Fiat doesn't have the engine of a Ferrari, if Fiat owns both companies?"

So vintage Rolex Daytona's with Valjoux ETA movements aren't Rolex quality?

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

So vintage Rolex Daytona's with Valjoux ETA movements aren't Rolex quality?

I'd love one of those "non prestigious" chronos.
dP

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

I'd love one of those "non prestigious" chronos.
dP

[powerband]

Originally Posted by Mikegp

It's like asking "why does my $15k Fiat doesn't have the engine of a Ferrari, if Fiat owns both companies?"

I was hoping to buy a Fiat for the prestige.

[applebook]

Originally Posted by powerband

I was hoping to buy a Fiat for the prestige.

And the 550 hp V8 or V12 in the rear too.

[Foiel]

I love this forum!!!! Thank you!

Now I say hello to you and to my Office and...... I GO TO GET MY BRAND NEW 114060!!!!!!!! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah!!

Arrivederci.....!

[rolepam312]

Let's not confuse Rolex in house movement to other brands like JLC, Patek , AP etc...
ETA=Rolex movement....both reliable, workhorse movement that has its place in the watch manufacturing world... To me Tudor is Rolex, whether you want to pay the " premium" for the " Rolex " brand name is the difference.. Internally, both are the same...

[GEO_79]

Originally Posted by rolepam312

Let's not confuse Rolex in house movement to other brands like JLC, Patek , AP etc...
ETA=Rolex movement....both reliable, workhorse movement that has its place in the watch manufacturing world... To me Tudor is Rolex, whether you want to pay the " premium" for the " Rolex " brand name is the difference.. Internally, both are the same...

What?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Foiel

Hello,
I was looking at the beautiful Tudor Black Bay.. I think its vintage looking is wonderful!Especially with worn effect leather strap or the tissue one! But i was impressed that Tudor even if it's a part of Rolex still uses ETA movement which are kind of disapponting to the prestige from my point of view.. I thought they used Rolex movements! ETA is a mass used movement from all the Swatch Group brand (like Omega and others) and also many other producers which for me takes off some of the magic exclusivity for example a Patek or Rolex or any other company producing inhouse movements!

ETA gets installed also from my other high range watch brand.. They just produce case/strap and all other external components then they just buy ETA and they modify it but it's not their movement! That's not prestige for me! Rolex instead make 100 % inhouse movement.. This is real prestige

Am I correct regarding ETA? Could you please explain me more about it or it's just the way i described it..

Well don't you think the Rolex movement is mass produced too, don't forget Rolex makes around 900000 units a year.And ETA movements are very fine movements made in 5 grades in most calibers.Now Rolex uses the top grade chronometer spec movements in the Tudor range like the cal 2824-2T and the Valjoux 7750/1 range and they are all in-house built by ETA. And at one time every Rolex watch had a small part of ETA in there movements with the hairspring. And in proportion to movements tested the ETA 2824 range and Valjoux 7750/1 have one of the highest first time pass rates a the Swiss COSC. Nothing wrong with ETA movements they have powered many high end watches for decades and very reliable long lasting movements.And at one time even Patek used use a modded Lemania's Cal. 2310 as a base for some of there two register m/wind chronographs and Lemania is part of ETA.And even Rolex used movements from ETA and Valjoux in the vintage moonphase and chronographs so if ETA was good enough for Rolex then I am sure its good enough for Rolex Tudor.

[boogiebot]

from time to time there are threads that start that i get a kick out of. and on any watch forum the talk about ETA movements is one of those kind of threads.

IMO there is nothing wrong with ETA movements in fact from my personal experience they are some of the most reliable movements that i have seen. some of the watches that i have with ETA movements keep "better time" than my subs. better being used loosely here as they are all within cosc specs.

i think that if you like a watch that there are several factors that go into whether someone will end up owning it or not. and if you look at the price point of Tudor IMO they are very reasonable for what they offer. take a look at the Tudor heritage chrono that retails for around 5k (i think someone feel free to correct me if im wrong) and compare that to its cousin the Rolex daytona that retails for around 12k new. both watches look awesome and both offer the same complication. but you definitely get serious bang for the dollar on the Tudor. and if you compare the THC against other watches that are chronos with an ETA movement my gut tells me that you would still find it has as good if not better value than its competitors in its class.

to sum it up...nothing bad can be said about ETA/Valjoux movements.

[kieselguhr]

I wouldn't sneeze at ETA movements. Best bang for your buck, reliable and cost effective to maintain. I think I read somewhere that ETA produced a tourbillon. If its true, that's very impressive.

[ceconomakis]

It is funny the discussions concerning ETA. The Tudor Black Bay here in Dubai costs €2,300 yet the same movement in a Panerai costs €4,600. Why for a few more mm of the same quality steel?
ETA are tried and tested. I am a Rolex collector and a dedicated Paneristi, yet always am amazed at the same people spending large amounts for SE Panerais with ETA movement yet balk at considering a Tudor or other similar watches.

[aeon888]

Come to think of it so Rolex buys ETA movement from competitor Swatch group to put into one of their watch brand (Tudor)? ;) Didn't even realized that even though I've known long before that Tudor uses ETA type movement.

I guess it is like having Toyota put a nissan engine on their Scion brand cars. (Although in reality, Scion FRS does uses an engine from collaboration of Toyota and Subaru, I think. I maybe wrong.)

[dysondiver]

as long as the hands go round ant it tells the time , the case keeps the water out , i really couldnt care if there was a pixie inside running on a tread mill.
ive both eta and rolex in many watches , they both seem to keep time and are tough enough to stand up to daily wear , non have expo cases , so i dont mind ,
maybe if it was a patek with an expo case my views would be different. but then i look at service cost and availability ,,,,

[landroverking]

More hangups about the Tudor brand.
Why Why Why. Many people that buy Rolex collect other brand with non in house movements and never think twice. What am I missing?

[cop414]

Nothing wrong with the ETA movements, my most accurate watch ever has the ETA 2824-2 movement. It gained somewhere around 23 seconds in... 100 days last time I checked. Also when I need to have it serviced it will be a fraction of the cost of having my Sub serviced. I think to "look down" on the ETA movements is kind of snobby, just my .02.

[applebook]

It's not just about quality, but perceived value.

Yes, a Rolex movement is "mass produced," but you can't find it in cheaper watches, whereas the movement in the Black Bay can be found unmodified or slightly modified in significantly cheaper watches.

I wouldn't pay full retail for the Black Bay, but when/if it drops to around 40% off list on the used market, I would consider it. Not all ETA movements are equal. What does Tudor do to the basic ebauche to justify its premium price tag over other watches that use the same base movement? I don't know. I would pay a premium for IWC ETA movement because it's been well documented by many different sources that after IWC is done with it, it's barely an ETA/Valjoux anymore.