Buying new advice - Serial Numbers, should I care?

[JB7]

Going to buy Sub this week and wondered if I should be at all bothered about the s/n?

Only reason I ask is because the Rolex forums are the ONLY watch brand that ever talks about it, L or V or X or Y or random? Is random worse than an 'X' or a 'Y'? Does it make ANY difference to me, the resale or anything at all to anyone?

On other forums they give you a date and age of the watch but on here we seem to get a serial number. Is that purely for the age of watch. I'm more interested in when someone bought it, as opposed to if it was made the year before, I want to know how long it's been out the shop firstly, then I'll worry about when it was made.

But to cut a long boring story short.... sorry, should I care?

Also, what should be in the box with a new Sub these days, so I can see what's what. Local dealers aren't forthcoming with cards and cloths in my non Rolex experiences. For Londoners do you buy in the big expensive stores in London as opposed to locally out in suburbs when there's no price difference whatsoever. You're kind of frowned upon asking for discounts on Rolex by all and everyone.

Thanks for help all.

[77T]

The only real confer on a Sub is if the s/n has been fiddled with - like "rubbed off" or somehow illegible. Clear signs of tampering to cover a potentially shady past. Otherwise, let condition and service history, balanced by price, be your guide. If the one you find and want to buy is missing bits - just use that as negotiation points for lowering the price.

I know many cherish their papers, boxes and tags but I find wearing those to be rather cumbersome

[T. Ferguson]

Currently Rolex is producing cases with "G" prefix and random serial numbers. Both of these numbers started coming out in 2010, so it is highly unlikely a new Sub you buy would be anything but either of these two current numbers. They just don't typically sit around that long. If it's not one of these two then you should be looking at a better deal since the dealer cost is probably lower than if he had just recently acquired the watch from Rolex. Of course, he may not see it that way.

A random may start with a G, but it will be one digit longer than a G serial.

There is no difference in the watch whether it's a G or random serial.

[Tooomey]

I would suggest buying New from an AD and only buying G or random. Although I wish rolex didn't discount at all except maybe to save on tax some places discount more than others. It doesn't hurt to ask. Your buying an expensive watch and they should treat as such! Good luck

[bayerische]

No difference.

[72bpm]

My 1 week old sub date has a random number. Checked the number on a website & it said year of manufacture 2011 +. Is it possible?
Then why the fuss about waiting time?

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by 72bpm

My 1 week old sub date has a random number. Checked the number on a website & it said year of manufacture 2011 +. Is it possible?
Then why the fuss about waiting time?

Only Rolex knows when it's manufactured. Don't believe everything you read online.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by 72bpm

My 1 week old sub date has a random number. Checked the number on a website & it said year of manufacture 2011 +. Is it possible?
Then why the fuss about waiting time?

The random serials and G single letter serials started from the latter part of 2010 till present time. So watch could have been made any time from then to present time.Watches don't go off like a packet of food and have no sell by date the serial is just a case serial.Now how old the movement is that's in the case well only Rolex knows that one, could be weeks, months, or even a year plus old before its cased.The movements are not made to order for any particular case run.And with watches that use say the cal 3135 approx 600000 plus of these are made each year now they are not all made in a week,or month.So Rolex must have a huge store stock plus the ones back and throe the COSC for testing which take 15 days.This is why the case serial obsession with some is meaningless as the case could be perhaps perceived newer stamped and the main bit the movement inside could be older or newer made.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by JB7

Going to buy Sub this week and wondered if I should be at all bothered about the s/n?

Only reason I ask is because the Rolex forums are the ONLY watch brand that ever talks about it, L or V or X or Y or random? Is random worse than an 'X' or a 'Y'? Does it make ANY difference to me, the resale or anything at all to anyone?

On other forums they give you a date and age of the watch but on here we seem to get a serial number. Is that purely for the age of watch. I'm more interested in when someone bought it, as opposed to if it was made the year before, I want to know how long it's been out the shop firstly, then I'll worry about when it was made.

But to cut a long boring story short.... sorry, should I care?

Also, what should be in the box with a new Sub these days, so I can see what's what. Local dealers aren't forthcoming with cards and cloths in my non Rolex experiences. For Londoners do you buy in the big expensive stores in London as opposed to locally out in suburbs when there's no price difference whatsoever. You're kind of frowned upon asking for discounts on Rolex by all and everyone.

Thanks for help all.

You could never date any Rolex watch 100% when it was made, only a rough indication when the case/clasp was stamped between X&Y years.At the moment we have both G serial plus 6 numbers,and the random serials a mixture of letter numbers but total of 8 digits running in the same time frame.And all this can tell us that the cases were stamped sometime between the latter part of 2010 till present time and over the years many serial overlap a year or more.When buying new no matter the case stamp they all get the same two year warranty when bought via a AD.If buying used buy condition first and the price and if used and over 5-7 years old budget for a full service if no history with watch.Regarding discounts if one AD will not just find one that will.

[Cru Jones]

the serial refers to the case and not the movement, so, at best, you get an approximation of when the case was made, not the watch itself.

[JB7]

Thanks all so much for your answers, nice to wake up to this morning.

So a G could be 2010 or 2012 made? Didn't the Sub C start in 2010 so can't be anything but, or a random?

Does random start with a number instead of a letter, so you know it's a random, And they are dated 2010 because random is a new thing, 2010 onwards?

I know they don't go off like food, but..... I purchased a watch 'new' from an AD that was made in 2009, and it had sat for 3 years, and the movement was pretty shot. There was no consistency to the accuracy for the year I owned it. It either gained 3 seconds or 20 from day to day, which for a COSC was pretty lousy. So I think to some extent if they've been sitting then they can go a bit off. Or I was just unlucky. Although I doubt the Subs sit that long.

Speaking of which, should you get a +1 average from them? I know COSC is -4/+6 but to be honest, if I pay £5000+GB for a watch and it's +6, I wouldn't be happy. My Omegas are +1.

Can you tell me what should be in box of new Sub also please? Cards, cloth etc?

Edit, there is a 14060 G Serial in FS, didn't these stop before 2010? Now I'm confused

[Bangel]

Originally Posted by JB7

Edit, there is a 14060 G Serial in FS, didn't these stop before 2010? Now I'm confused

The 14060 was the "current" Submariner (no date for the non purists!) until the release of the 114060 at Basel in 2012.

I think you're getting mixed up with the 16610 Submariner Date.

[JB7]

Originally Posted by Bangel

The 14060 was the "current" Submariner (no date for the non purists!) until the release of the 114060 at Basel in 2012.

I think you're getting mixed up with the 16610 Submariner Date.

pretty sure this isn't current model or it was still produced till new one? Didn't know that. Also didn't know the ND current version was only started in 2012 or this one was still available until then. Never saw any anywhere for years

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=321860

[Bangel]

Originally Posted by JB7

pretty sure this isn't current model or it was still produced till new one? Didn't know that. Also didn't know the ND current version was only started in 2012 or this one was still available until then. Never saw any anywhere for years

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=321860

That's the one that was replaced by the 114060 in 2012.

As the model turnover point approached I guess it was harder to find them at ADs as existing stock was sold and not replaced when production ended. Fast forward to the present and that task of finding an old stock BNIB 14060 is just that much harder.

[JB7]

Originally Posted by Bangel

That's the one that was replaced by the 114060 in 2012.

As the model turnover point approached I guess it was harder to find them at ADs as existing stock was sold and not replaced when production ended. Fast forward to the present and that task of finding an old stock BNIB 14060 is just that much harder.

thanks, never knew any of that.... when the C came out, dealers looked at me like I was from the planet tharg when I asked for the previous model, date or no date, like I'd asked for kryptonite. I wanted the old shape as opposed to the wider lugs. Fortunately, the new shape has grown on me.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by JB7

. .
So a G could be 2010 or 2012 made? Didn't the Sub C start in 2010 so can't be anything but, or a random?
. . ..

Edit, there is a 14060 G Serial in FS, didn't these stop before 2010? Now I'm confused

You are dwelling too much on a number. Every Rolex is rare because no other Rolex has the same number..

So, No, G serials didn't "stop" in 2010.. They were "first seen" in late 2010 and so it would have been impossible for them to stop then.. All letter prefixe serials are/were used for 3 or 4 years before depleted, and then still in the marketplace for a few more years..

So, a G serial may have been "manufactured" a couple of months ago.. it is still a current and valid serial; released concurrently with random serials.

Some may feel that the G serial will be desirable in the future because it was the last of the letter-prefix serial era..

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by JB7

Thanks all so much for your answers, nice to wake up to this morning.

So a G could be 2010 or 2012 made? Didn't the Sub C start in 2010 so can't be anything but, or a random?

Does random start with a number instead of a letter, so you know it's a random, And they are dated 2010 because random is a new thing, 2010 onwards?

I know they don't go off like food, but..... I purchased a watch 'new' from an AD that was made in 2009, and it had sat for 3 years, and the movement was pretty shot. There was no consistency to the accuracy for the year I owned it. It either gained 3 seconds or 20 from day to day, which for a COSC was pretty lousy. So I think to some extent if they've been sitting then they can go a bit off. Or I was just unlucky. Although I doubt the Subs sit that long.

Speaking of which, should you get a +1 average from them? I know COSC is -4/+6 but to be honest, if I pay £5000+GB for a watch and it's +6, I wouldn't be happy. My Omegas are +1...

...Edit, there is a 14060 G Serial in FS, didn't these stop before 2010? Now I'm confused

The random case numbers started showing up in 2010 with the "G's" a couple months later that year. They are both still being seen on new watches. So it means they are both still leaving the factory up to today. It seems logical that the randoms will eventually survive when the G's expire simply because there are many more possible number combinations with the randoms.

The randoms can start with a letter, including G. You can tell the difference because the random numbers have 8 total digits and the G's have 7.

It doesn't sound like the watch you bought new was running within spec so it would have been regulated for free by Rolex to within -4 to +6, which BTW is something like 99.995% accuracy. Keep in mind the accuracy depends on many things, like wearing habits. That said, most Rolexes are capable of doing better that COSC, and regulating one is a simple matter of having a watchmaker open the case and turn a screw.

The 14010 Sub was not replaced by the 114010 ceramic model until 2012. So it is not unusual that there might be G serials of that watch.

[Reu]

Originally Posted by JB7

Going to buy Sub this week and wondered if I should be at all bothered about the s/n?

Only reason I ask is because the Rolex forums are the ONLY watch brand that ever talks about it, L or V or X or Y or random? Is random worse than an 'X' or a 'Y'? Does it make ANY difference to me, the resale or anything at all to anyone?

On other forums they give you a date and age of the watch but on here we seem to get a serial number. Is that purely for the age of watch. I'm more interested in when someone bought it, as opposed to if it was made the year before, I want to know how long it's been out the shop firstly, then I'll worry about when it was made.

But to cut a long boring story short.... sorry, should I care?

Also, what should be in the box with a new Sub these days, so I can see what's what. Local dealers aren't forthcoming with cards and cloths in my non Rolex experiences. For Londoners do you buy in the big expensive stores in London as opposed to locally out in suburbs when there's no price difference whatsoever. You're kind of frowned upon asking for discounts on Rolex by all and everyone.

Thanks for help all.

Well I would say I'm in a similar boat to you. I am buying my first Submariner tomorrow. The store has it and I am going to collect it tomorrow.

The reality is that no Submariner would sit for any period of time in a store in the UK - too many buyers wanting it/waiting on lists.

Serial numbers will only give you a rough time of when the part was actually manufactured. As an example it could have been sitting at Rolex unassembled for a long period of time and then put together and sent out. In this case the serial would indicate it might be an earlier model, but it doesn't mean that it's been with the store for any length of time.

Additionally, and I may be wrong, but I think that the probabilities are now that most Submariners will come with random serial numbers as it's a fast-moving model.

I too thought that serial numbers were only talked of here on TRF, and I'm sure that most who buy Rolex don't care, or even know about that. I did however ask the AD and she immediately said random in the way that it was a regular thing she was asked.

Wherever you go for a SS Sub, you won't get a discount as there is someone right behind you to pay full price. In regards to 'frowning'. Who's going to frown at you? Some retail assistant who happens to sell high-end watches? Don't think so.

Have you got a store in mind who you know has one in stock? I ask because most stores in London will have waiting lists, or claim that they do. Might not be as simple as you think (although it should be) to just go in and ask for one in stock.

[JB7]

Originally Posted by Reu

Well I would say I'm in a similar boat to you. I am buying my first Submariner tomorrow. The store has it and I am going to collect it tomorrow.

The reality is that no Submariner would sit for any period of time in a store in the UK - too many buyers wanting it/waiting on lists.

Serial numbers will only give you a rough time of when the part was actually manufactured. As an example it could have been sitting at Rolex unassembled for a long period of time and then put together and sent out. In this case the serial would indicate it might be an earlier model, but it doesn't mean that it's been with the store for any length of time.

Additionally, and I may be wrong, but I think that the probabilities are now that most Submariners will come with random serial numbers as it's a fast-moving model.

I too thought that serial numbers were only talked of here on TRF, and I'm sure that most who buy Rolex don't care, or even know about that. I did however ask the AD and she immediately said random in the way that it was a regular thing she was asked.

Wherever you go for a SS Sub, you won't get a discount as there is someone right behind you to pay full price. In regards to 'frowning'. Who's going to frown at you? Some retail assistant who happens to sell high-end watches? Don't think so.

Have you got a store in mind who you know has one in stock? I ask because most stores in London will have waiting lists, or claim that they do. Might not be as simple as you think (although it should be) to just go in and ask for one in stock.

Found a couple, amazingly. They've not been available anywhere or in any of these places I've looked before, but now seem to be rolling out a bit more. Not in central london though, outskirts. Are you buying in west end?

[Reu]

Originally Posted by JB7

Found a couple, amazingly. They've not been available anywhere or in any of these places I've looked before, but now seem to be rolling out a bit more. Not in central london though, outskirts. Are you buying in west end?

No, Surrey.

Mappin & Webb Regent Street are about the only London store who currently have anything although it's a non-date and currently without a buyer.

[kier333]

Originally Posted by JB7

Found a couple, amazingly. They've not been available anywhere or in any of these places I've looked before, but now seem to be rolling out a bit more. Not in central london though, outskirts. Are you buying in west end?

I am fairly sure when I was last in westfields shopping centre they seemed to have a huge stock avaliable of all the Steel sports models, so I am unclear why anyone would have a problem getting one. I also noticed when passing the rolex store in Knightsbridge lots of steel sports models on display avaliable to purchase immediately.

[JB7]

thanks guys, have found a couple in London that do have them in stock now.
I was just pointing out the absolute idiots that work in these stores is astounding. It's not the first time I've come across 'Rolex Experts' as the deluded shop staff call themselves, in London. Must be the easiest task in the world to get employed by Rolex ADs.

[JB7]

They have a no date in M&W and no takers... that's a first! at 5k?

[bayerische]

It's impossible to say how your watch is going to run... COSC has tested your movement at some point, and it performed within the set parameters.

Many things dictate how your watch will perform.

Recommend you get your watch, and don't spend too much time thinking about accuracy. I haven't tested one of mine for years. I've realized I enjoy them much more when I don't think too much about how they are "doing".

Post pics when you get it.

[jshepard]

I only look to the serial numbers for age. Some sellers don't put the year but the serial number and I tend to want to buy something a bit newer. I guess some get pretty specific in their collecting and want something like "R serial only". But serial number is a must because you need it intact for servicing with RSC.

[Nidal]

If personally go random. G can be an old new stock


Nidal

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Nidal

If personally go random. G can be an old new stock


Nidal

And a random can't? Randoms and G serials both came out starting in 2010 and are both still being used concurrently. So how can a G be more likely to be old stock than a random, and how do you make the inference that a random serial cannot be old new stock?

Either could possibly be sitting in the AD since 2010. Not likely in the case of a Sub anyway.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Nidal

If personally go random. G can be an old new stock


Nidal

I am sure you have not even read this thread before you jumped in with such a statement.Both G single letter serials and random are running in the same time frame. All G single letter serials and random the cases were stamped sometime between end of 2010 till present time.So a G single letter serial watch could be newer than a random serial or visa versa I hope that's clear enough for you to understand.

[Nidal]

Originally Posted by padi56

I am sure you have not even read this thread before you jumped in with such a statement.Both G single letter serials and random are running in the same time frame. All G single letter serials and random the cases were stamped sometime between end of 2010 till present time.So a G single letter serial watch could be newer than a random serial or visa versa I hope that's clear enough for you to understand.

No need to be offended. You can disagree with me my friend. I said that my personal preference that's all.


Nidal

[Racerdj]

Originally Posted by Nidal

If personally go random. G can be an old new stock


Nidal

I agree