Rolex warranty card missing = dealer's game

[engin33r]

Some Rolex watches are sold without boxes / cards - and many members here wonder why? Are they stolen watches? The original owners were sloppy, didn't take care of their watches? ...bla bla bla, and so on.

And actually there are many such watches in the market. And one of the reason, is precisely because many Rolex prospective buyers put a premium on those (otherwise irrelevant) things. So some dealers start to play the game of 'missing warranty card / box'. Here's how it works:

A prospective buyer go to a preowned dealer, looking for a preowned Rolex. And they happen to have several in stock. Some without box and papers, some other has the box only. And there is one with all the boxes, cards, hangtags, wipe cloth, outer box, everything. The prospective buyer's eyes lit up like fireworks... ahh this is the one, and he's willing to pay high dollar for it - several hundred dollars more, if not thousand. Job done.

In fact, almost all of those watches were complete with boxes and cards, but the dealer just shows them one at a time.

The next buyer comes, and the same thing happens again and again. But of course some buyers don't really care about these things and opt to buy the cheaper but same condition watch. There you have a valid reason why some watches don't come with boxes and papers.

Why the dealer did this? Many reasons, for one to make extra money from the box and papers. Another reason, for the ones without boxes/warranty, he simply offers them 'buyback' option - basically he agrees to match or exceed any fair offer for the watch. And the reason he can do this is because he kept the original box and cards in the first place. The unknowing customer thinks that the dealer is really kind - willing to buy his piece for more than others. The customer was 'bound' to sell his watch to the particular dealer. And as we know Rolex watches are addictive, so it makes good business sense.

It's almost like magic, everyone seems to be happy.... Until the day the customer find out about it. Even then I think this is just the market in action, we put real good dollar values to those boxes and cards - eventually some people are going to sell them. Makes sense. This also explains why you see some boxes and cards, genuine stuff, being offered.

I'm not saying those dealers are shady, ripping off the customers... not at all. In fact they are the safer option to buy preowned watches - they know what they're doing, they can spot fake watches. If it's a reputable dealer who's been in business for many years - rest assured you're buying genuine rolex even without box and papers.

I hope this insight can be useful for fellow watch enthusiasts.

[xjeeunitx]

Or maybe the dealer just doesnt have box and papers, vice versa. You're thinking too much into it.

[engin33r]

Originally Posted by xjeeunitx

Or maybe the dealer just doesnt have box and papers, vice versa. You're thinking too much into it.

True, some watches come as they are. But it's not impossible for the box and papers to 'go missing' while the dealer put up the watch for display. But for me personally, it doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

Interesting take. What's your theory on dealers that sell BNIB Rolexes without the warranty card?

Then they're BNIB Rolex watches with no warranty. For new watches, no card = no warranty.

[T. Ferguson]

Interesting take. What's your theory on dealers that sell BNIB Rolexes without the warranty card?

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

Interesting take. What's your theory on dealers that sell BNIB Rolexes without the warranty card?

I've seen sellers here say the warranty card is sometimes removed to protect their sources (likely a foreign AD).

As for the OP, are you saying it's common practice for dealers to withhold box/papers just so they can potentially afford to buy it back at a competitive price someday later? Somehow I doubt this is the primary cause of boxless watches.

[engin33r]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

As for the OP, are you saying it's common practice for dealers to withhold box/papers just so they can potentially afford to buy it back at a competitive price someday later? Somehow I doubt this is the primary cause of boxless watches.

Many other reasons, like they're stolen, the original owner simply lost the box / papers - or sell them.

But my whole point is that if we put high dollar values on those boxes and papers, eventually someone will try to sell them.

In fact I found one ebay listing selliing a DD paperwork only no watch for US$400+ it's crazy

[Sublover2166]

Originally Posted by engin33r

Many other reasons, like they're stolen, the original owner simply lost the box / papers - or sell them.

But my whole point is that if we put high dollar values on those boxes and papers, eventually someone will try to sell them.

In fact I found one ebay listing selliing a DD paperwork only no watch for US$400+ it's crazy

Some people will sell their used underwear on Ebay as long as they can make a buck. Just sayin.

[77T]

Or maybe...

More than half of owners don't care about the cards and boxes after warranty ends. B&P meet Mr Trash Bin.

Pawn brokers know that few if any hocked watches come with B&P.

Owners don't want their names passed on so they keep papers when selling (old papers often had address info, too).




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[engin33r]

Originally Posted by 77T

Or maybe...

More than half of owners don't care about the cards and boxes after warranty ends. B&P meet Mr Trash Bin.

Pawn brokers know that few if any hocked watches come with B&P.

Owners don't want their names passed on so they keep papers when selling (old papers often had address info, too).

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That is another possibility. Although if that's the case they can always put Mr James Bond on the warranty card and it would still be valid.

But 'losing' those papers that way doesn't have economic motive. Unless one is in the business of selling and buying.

Originally Posted by martinr

Exactly how do you know this happens?

A little bird told me...

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

No Rolex warranty. What I'm referring to are specifically some of the large internet dealers who offer their own two year warranty instead.

This has been my theory. If I'm an AD supplying a ton of watches to someone like Furman or Joma, I'd want anonymity. And if I'm the dealer, I'd not want my customer to cut me out and try going direct to that AD on their next purchase.

True, big possibility they are protecting their sources. And the warranty part is not difficult at all... The dealer simply pass on the claim from their customer to RSC - then she/he will be true to his words, a guarantee as good as Rolex guarantee.

And another thing, should the customer wishes to sell his watch before the end of the warranty period. Only this dealer can give the best price for it, since he/she keeps the original warranty card.

[bluerolex]

The rule of thumb is that the Box, Card, Receipt, record of service record make the watch more valuable. But you have to understand why and how to applied this rule of thumb.


Take two example (give the matter some thought my example is not perfect but if you think about I think you will get my point.

1. if you buy a watch from a dealer who has access to many boxes or cards he/she could easily change one for another or buy/trade with other dealers. The card and the box may no mean much.

2. But if you buy it from an individual. I don't think most individual would think ahead to say buy a box and card from ebay to sell their watch, if you talk to the individual you can judge for youself. So the fact they have the box, card, and receipt probably is consistence if they tell you they bought it new. And why is that important? Because this decrease the chance that it is stolen because there is a receipt. It is logical if he mug someone for the watch there would not be a box or receipt. And because if the seller bought it new you can judge for yourself weather the seller could be a person who say switch the movement of the watch you are buying with a lesser movement.

[Jim Smyth]

Originally Posted by 77T

Or maybe...


Owners don't want their names passed on so they keep papers when selling (old papers often had address info, too).

This.....................

[Dyim]

Originally Posted by Sublover2166

Some people will sell their used underwear on Ebay as long as they can make a buck. Just sayin.

Monica Lewinsky?

[Hairdude1]

Thats another reason I go with a trusted seller here on TRF

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by Hairdude1

Thats another reason I go with a trusted seller here on TRF

Exactly!!! Just use trusted sellers here and don't worry about it.

[Sublover2166]

Originally Posted by Hairdude1

Thats another reason I go with a trusted seller here on TRF

X2. Trusted sellers will sell you a BNIB watch with the correct box, booklets, hangtags and in most cases a warranty card that can have your name on it. Most of them even sell the pre-owned newer watches as complete sets which means box, booklets etc. I disagree with the OP that there is some sort of "scheme" that folks are using to bump up the price of a used watch by manipulating the box and paper thing.

[martinr]

Exactly how do you know this happens?

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by engin33r

Then they're BNIB Rolex watches with no warranty. For new watches, no card = no warranty.

No Rolex warranty. What I'm referring to are specifically some of the large internet dealers who offer their own two year warranty instead.

Originally Posted by powerfunk

I've seen sellers here say the warranty card is sometimes removed to protect their sources (likely a foreign AD).

This has been my theory. If I'm an AD supplying a ton of watches to someone like Furman or Joma, I'd want anonymity. And if I'm the dealer, I'd not want my customer to cut me out and try going direct to that AD on their next purchase.

[Jake B]

A lot of people buy Rolex watches while on vacation or on biz in countries with more favourable tax/duty and better prices. Then, they toss the box & wear the watch home to avoid declaring it.

Others just don't care or think about it & don't know about "b&p value" & also don't predict falling into a situation that'll necessitate selling their watch.

There are tons of watches out there with...and tons without. If you shop around you find the watch/condition/price that's right for you. Not everything's a conspiracy, bud.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Jake B

Others just don't care or think about it & don't know about "b&p value" & also don't predict falling into a situation that'll necessitate selling their watch.



There are tons of watches out there with...and tons without. If you shop around you find the watch/condition/price that's right for you. Not everything's a conspiracy, bud.

Yep agree.


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[MonBK]

x2

[azguy]

2 well known stores here in Scottsdale do not include papers on pre-loved watches you may purchase. They claim it's an invasion of privacy of the former/previous owner since it has name and address, etc...

I can see their point...

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by azguy

2 well known stores here in Scottsdale do not include papers on pre-loved watches you may purchase. They claim it's an invasion of privacy of the former/previous owner since it has name and address, etc...

I can see their point...

I don't think there is even a line on the warranty card for the owner's address. As for the previous owners name, well if the owner sold the dealer the watch with the card included then my assumption would be he doesn't have a problem with it. Besides, you have to have an owner's certificate to transfer title to a car, and that definitely has the owner's name and address on it. I'd venture more cars are sold everyday than Rolexes.

[HogwldFLTR]

Seems like a way to lose money; sell all at an average price with papers instead of selling occasional higher priced ones and the remainder at reduced pricing. IMHO.

[engin33r]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Seems like a way to lose money; sell all at an average price with papers instead of selling occasional higher priced ones and the remainder at reduced pricing. IMHO.

No... the ones without papers were sold just slightly less than the ones with paper. Roughly at market price. Remember they are typically big dealers, with hundreds of watches.

That way, if the customer choses to buy with papers - he makes that extra money. If the customer choses to buy w/o papers, he just doesn't make that extra money. If the customer tries to bargain down the price, he will say that the watch are more or less worth the same. He does not have to lower the price, and instead he promises buyback at better than other dealer price. In effect, he binds the no paper customer - since he owns the papers all along,
he knows he can sell at a premium later on.

The buyback part is the key. Typically the customer will want to trade up. And that's where the money is to be made. Since the dealer holds the original papers, naturally he will be able to offer more for the watch... thus the customer is bound to sell to the dealer.

------------------------------------------------

Again, I'm not saying this is a trick, or a rip off. Simply a selling strategy, to get a returning customer OR higher dollar for those papers.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Seems like a way to lose money; sell all at an average price with papers instead of selling occasional higher priced ones and the remainder at reduced pricing. IMHO.

I think what he's saying is the dealer probably actually has papers on most everything, he just says he doesn't. When you spend a little more for the one with the complete set, next day somehow the watch you passed on because it didn't have papers suddenly has papers (and is now priced higher).

Or something like that.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

I think what he's saying is the dealer probably actually has papers on most everything, he just says he doesn't. When you spend a little more for the one with the complete set, next day somehow the watch you passed on because it didn't have papers suddenly has papers.

Or something like that.

Yeah, and the whole master plan is to try and eventually sell him his next watch by offering a competitive buyback price which is only possible because he's had your papers carefully filed away all these years. Kind of a lot of work considering the OP himself states the difference in price for papers is only "slight."

And this complex scheme to store file cabinets of papers (in the hopes of a possibility of slightly increased future profit) is the primarily cause of watches being sold without papers. Sounds reasonable.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Yeah, and the whole master plan is to try and eventually sell him his next watch by offering a competitive buyback price which is only possible because he's had your papers carefully filed away all these years. Kind of a lot of work considering the OP himself states the difference in price for papers is only "slight."

And this complex scheme to store file cabinets of papers (in the hopes of a possibility of slightly increased future profit) is the primarily cause of watches being sold without papers. Sounds reasonable.

I agree, Sounds like BS to me.

What dealer in his right mind will come up with a "masterplan" like that.

[engin33r]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

I think what he's saying is the dealer probably actually has papers on most everything, he just says he doesn't. When you spend a little more for the one with the complete set, next day somehow the watch you passed on because it didn't have papers suddenly has papers (and is now priced higher).

Or something like that.

Yes, something like that. How many prospective customers actually wrote down the serial number of watches they were going to buy but didn't ? (but since I write this thread you may want to start now whenever you see paperless rolex being offered - to check if they come up again in the future complete with paper.... it happens, believe me).