Help identifying 50s dress watch

[HawkinsT]

I've recently inherited a Rolex and really know nothing about it, would anyone here be able to help with some details (e.g. what model it is)?

I've tried looking online, and it seems to be very similar to a number of cellinis, only I understand they were made from the 70s on.

It came in a Bucherer case, and the strap has 750 CB hallmarked on it, indicating it's an 18K Bucherer strap. The watch itself has no identification numbers between the lugs (I haven't had the back off for fear of damaging it).

On the back of the case is engraved the serial 1337344, which I understand means it was made in 1959 (I had been told my grandfather purchased it in the 50s). The only other writing I can see is 'Rolex', 'Geneve', and 'Swiss' written on the face. The face is around 31mm wide.

Anything anyone can tell me about it would be much appreciated (or if any more pictures or information is wanted please ask).

[andromeda160]

your pictures aren't working right now, sounds like an interesting piece. not much to say right now other than it's vintage mens dress watch.

[HawkinsT]

Thanks for replying. I'll find another image host if it's still not working when I get back from work. I also have a lady's rolex dress watch from the same period (which I also know nothing about), so I'll update the first post with that later too.

[Kingface66]

If you have a copy of the picture on your computer or device, you don't need an image host. Just reply to a comment and click the paperclip above the message box and upload your image

[HawkinsT]

Thanks King. I tried that before but it kept on telling me I couldn't add attachments at this time. It seems to be working now. I can't edit my original post (perhaps because I'm new to the forum?), but I'll post the images here.

I've included the front and back of the watch in question, and the front of the other watch I referred to. I don't have the lady's watch on me at the moment but I can take better photos of it later.

The lady's watch also has CB 750 hallmarked on the bracelet, so I know it's an 18K white gold Bucherer, presumably purchased at the same time. The writing on it reads 'Rolex', 'Precision', 'Swiss'. It doesn't come in a Bucherer case but that of a local diamond specialist (of course there's no telling if this is the original box). I couldn't see a serial or any other markings on this one, but I'll get it under a loupe tomorrow and check more carefully.

[andromeda160]

they're both gold manual wind vintage watches, the bracelet on the mens model is an aftermarket bracelet probably bought from the jeweler, definately not from rolex. the womens model might've had the diamonds added by the jeweler named on the box, although possible rolex added them as well. the mens watch likely has a caliber 1210 manual wind movement in it, it's very robust and great for everyday wear. This watch is better than vintage cellini's in my opinion because it has a seconds hand, which a sweeping seconds hand is half the fun of a mechanical watch I think. The womens watch is consided a cocktail watch and likely would have had a leather rope bracelet originally. neither of them are extremely collectible, but they're both gold rolexes so they have some value.

[HawkinsT]

Thanks for the info. I can confirm they're both manual wind. Neither has a seconds hand though; would the caliber 1210 movement still be likely for the men's watch?

It's interesting about the straps. Looking at Bucherer online it seems they sell a lot of Rolexes. I wonder was it likely in the 50s it was sold like this (with Bucherer buying in the watches without straps), or would Rolex only supply watches with straps?

Would you also be able to give me advice on winding them (I'm only familiar with modern/automatic watches); is it easy to overwind these movements, or will the resistance be obvious? I gave the men's watch ~20 turns this morning and it still seems to be keeping good time, but I was concerned about winding it any more until I's sure I wasn't going to break it.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by HawkinsT

Thanks for the info. I can confirm they're both manual wind. Neither has a seconds hand though; would the caliber 1210 movement still be likely for the men's watch?

It's interesting about the straps. Looking at Bucherer online it seems they sell a lot of Rolexes. I wonder was it likely in the 50s it was sold like this (with Bucherer buying in the watches without straps), or would Rolex only supply watches with straps?

Would you also be able to give me advice on winding them (I'm only familiar with modern/automatic watches); is it easy to overwind these movements, or will the resistance be obvious? I gave the men's watch ~20 turns this morning and it still seems to be keeping good time, but I was concerned about winding it any more until I's sure I wasn't going to break it.

I don't know how I saw a seconds hand, no it's likely to have the same thin, 19j 1600 movement found in cellinis. As for the bracelets, Rolex gold bracelets have always been expensive, so people would purchase aftermarket ones to accent their watch. originally the watches came on leather straps, dealer gets them in, and either adds the bracelet then, or they show the watches, and then after the purchaser buys/shows interest, then they probably pull out all the bracelets and try selling them to the customer to finnish off his watch, and they probably made more money selling bucherer bracelets than the Rolex.

40 winds is the reccomended ammount, but just wind up until it stops winding.

[HawkinsT]

Thanks again, all interesting to know. Hopefully once I get it to a jeweller and get the back off I can know for certain on the movement. ~40 winds seems to last the day, I don't feel any resistance still, but I guess there's no need to wind it more than that.

At least I can get the bracelet polished now without worrying about killing the value (not that I would sell it).

[HawkinsT]

Just back to add from research it seems the caliber 1600 was introduced in 1964, five years after the men's watch I have. As I said, I guess getting the back off should help solve it once and for all though.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by HawkinsT

Just back to add from research it seems the caliber 1600 was introduced in 1964, five years after the men's watch I have. As I said, I guess getting the back off should help solve it once and for all though.

1.33 mil SN puts it at 1965,

[HawkinsT]

Okay, makes sense. I was going off this list http://www.bernardwatch.com/Rolex-serial-numbers which puts it at 59. Is there a definitive list I can trust somewhere?

[R.W.T.]

I do not believe that you can use any serial list to date NON oyster cases. The serial lists pertain only to oyster cases as far as I am aware. I do not know of any published list that gives dates for non oyster cases.

That being said the watch looks very 60's and the movement is most like a 1600 derivative. The watch looks "pre cellini" which is my way of saying it's a cellini before they called it that on the dial.

The 1600 movement is contracted from Rayville and is also found in Omegas and Piaget and others.

It is very unique and the parts are unlike any other Rolex. You can sub parts from any of the versions, they fit perfectly. The parts are cheaper if they aren't in a Rolex package :-) No mods were really done. Just nomenclature.

I don't care who made the men's bracelet I'd love to have it!


I'd put it on my 30's 18k bubble back yesterday.

A photo of the inside of the case back and the movement would sort things out reasonably quickly.

Regarding the ladies watch, many varieties of such things were made. Too many to catalogue. You can likely find some similar ones in period catalogue brochures.

[HawkinsT]

Excellent information! Cheers. I shall remember that come service time :).

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the bracelet. I wore it for the first time today and it attracted a few comments which is always good.

I'll have to get the back off in the next few weeks when I visit a jeweller.

With the ladies watch, I've seen a few where the faces are similar but nothing with the same diamond pattern around the edge. I guess as andromeda said it could have been done after. I'll keep an eye out.