Need some help TRF with this Red Sub

[DeeTee]

I went to check a local dealer and saw this guy instock. I'm a modern Rolex guy, but I'm eyeing the vintage market. By looking at the dial, I assume it's a IV dial, but other than that I don't know too much.

Has this thing been over polished?
What's the deal with the insert? The lighter the better?
The date window looks a bit lighter than the rest of the watch, is that normal?

Excuse my ignorance TRF, just need some help from you guys before purchase.

[cajuntiger]

Impossible to tell from this photo if it was over polished...need much better shots. The Bezel is faded, and cool looking...but not worth more than a bezel in better condition. Overall it looks like a nice piece, but we really need better images.

[TimeToGo]

Looks like a very nice watch, love the colors/faded insert.. Some people pay a big premium for a ghost insert.

Polish paranoia.. Everyone is getting so hung up with watches being over polished, not polished, case refreshed, etc..

It is nice that a watch have beefy lugs and not that a spring bar is protruding so much that you could hang your dry cleaning on your way home. We are getting so used to looking and criticizing watches from pictures that were taken about one inch from the lug because we want to inspect that last little imperfection...

I think the unpolished versions of watches are a rarity and command a premium but if you rub it on your jeans, it may be construed as a polish...

What I would recommend is to get some specifics on this watch to learn about the vintage aspect of these models. The serial number, case back year stamp, bracelet code, service history. Hopefully all adds up and if the price is right (not being sold as an unpolished version, ridiculous price, or one that you will need to take into account a service to add another $500-750 so you understand your investment) slap that puppy on your wrist and wear it proudly..

[watchcrank]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

Looks like a very nice watch, love the colors/faded insert.. Some people pay a big premium for a ghost insert.

Polish paranoia.. Everyone is getting so hung up with watches being over polished, not polished, case refreshed, etc..

It is nice that a watch have beefy lugs and not that a spring bar is protruding so much that you could hang your dry cleaning on your way home. We are getting so used to looking and criticizing watches from pictures that were taken about one inch from the lug because we want to inspect that last little imperfection...

I think the unpolished versions of watches are a rarity and command a premium but if you rub it on your jeans, it may be construed as a polish...

What I would recommend is to get some specifics on this watch to learn about the vintage aspect of these models. The serial number, case back year stamp, bracelet code, service history. Hopefully all adds up and if the price is right (not being sold as an unpolished version, ridiculous price, or one that you will need to take into account a service to add another $500-750 so you understand your investment) slap that puppy on your wrist and wear it proudly..

for sure N.. I've had maybe 3 of what I considered untouched cases in last two years. Most have had some type of polish besides normal sleeve wear.

[springer]

Originally Posted by watchcrank

for sure N.. I've had maybe 3 of what I considered untouched cases in last two years. Most have had some type of polish besides normal sleeve wear.

x2. Watch looks nice for its age.

[EdipisReks]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

Polish paranoia.. Everyone is getting so hung up with watches being over polished, not polished, case refreshed, etc..

For sure.

[Vincent65]

Looks good to me. Strong case, I'd say.

[JJL]

Very cool looking watch!! Great colors, love the insert and the dial looks clean. I'll let the experts chime in on authenticity and originality of each piece but from my novice eyes, the case looks fine and the date wheel looks original silver.

[Wing Zero]

Great Looking dial, matching hands and plots.
The insert is a service insert and worth about $150 vs a true Fat Font Ghost insert worth about $1000.

Make sure the serial number is in range of a Mark IV
Does it come with papers, box etc?

[lhanddds]

For such a thin font on the insert, it has a lot of fade. This may lead one to think it has been artificially faded. That may not bother you. Here's my Tudor sub with a similar fade. You can see the font is thicker.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by lhanddds

For such a thin font on the insert, it has a lot of fade. This may lead one to think it has been artificially faded. That may not bother you. Here's my Tudor sub with a similar fade. You can see the font is thicker.

Great point and I agree.

The dial also looks way too mint....for a Red Sub

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

Great Looking dial, matching hands and plots.
The insert is a service insert and worth about $150 vs a true Fat Font Ghost insert worth about $1000.

Make sure the serial number is in range of a Mark IV
Does it come with papers, box etc?

No box or papers with this.
Is the watch still command a premium due to the insert situation?

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

No box or papers with this.
Is the watch still command a premium due to the insert situation?

No, with this insert it does not command a premium.
Below is my MK5 with a faded insert. Notice the thicker font...


I like the watch at first sight. Dial is very nice and so are the hands.
Case looks very nice for my likings. The insert would need to be replace for a period correct one, whether faded to not. Up to you.
Looks like it has the trip lock crown without the crown tube, like I have on my MK5. My MK4 has a different crown with crown tube. This would not make me discard the watch. Would have to see it in person and check the serial number to ensure it falls in the MK4 range.

No box or papers is not an issue for me and would not withhold me from buying that watch if the price was right.

Good luck on finding a nice Red Sub, there are plenty being offered at the moment

[Rameez-Q]

I was going to say for a service insert it has way too much fade and is possibly an after market insert that has been artificially faded

[Frogman4me]

Service insert was likely artificially faded. Its not worth much compared to any fat font insert in any condition. This watch should have a MKIII insert to be correct. This can be added no problem but don't pay extra because the insert is faded. Its incorrect.

[DeeTee]

Hmmmm.... Thanks for the input on the insert guys.
I was on the fence about this thing, now I'm going to give it a pass. I'm sure one day in a trade show or vintage shop I'll find the right red sub.

Btw this was a piece for sale by a TRF seller, I went to go look at it in person before purchase.

[Robbyvm]

looks like a nice MKIII with a service insert
Case looks ok (from this one pic)
if the price is right
if the serial number is consistent with the MKIII dial
if you are ok with the service insert or willing to put in around 1 K for a period correct example

go for it !