Apple's stand against the Feds

[hdms]

What do you guys think about Tim Cook's stand on user data privacy against FBI requesting for access? Here's the letter that Tim Cook posted.

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

[mfer]

I agree fully with Mr. Cook.

[Thatguy]

Originally Posted by mfer

I agree fully with Mr. Cook.

This!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sdelliott58]

Originally Posted by mfer

I agree fully with Mr. Cook.

Yup.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

The NSA can support legally. The CIA is banned in the US, but the NSA can collect data in the US. Their methodology may not always allow the data to be used in court, but they can collect data. If this really were an exigent circumstance, the NSA could have hacked the phone with court authority.

The FBI is tilting at windmills on this one. The phone is stale and is of little real value. They want a capability, not a one off information lift. They are using the "terrorist under every bush" fears to obtain unprecedented access to personal data.

Once they have the capability, every over ambitious yob looking for a promotion will be using the capability to pursue his own agenda, and will share it with organizations that should never have it. It will be abused and innocent people will be harmed.

No one's information would ever be safe on that operating system. You can see why Apple is worried. They know this would kill the iPhone and maybe Apple. It's life or death for them.

I would want to think the NSA can get it with possession of the device, maybe they can't, maybe they won't. But there are a lot of things the NSA is prohibited from doing domestically. I don't know enough to see where on that line this falls and how much interaction these folks had with outside actors. The FBI has some good people too but they, presumably, can't make this one tick.

Perhaps this is just a one time lift (until the next time anyway) and not a reach for a capability which I am personally against unless it is developed organically AND has a judge/court in the loop.

PS - I do really enjoy your posts on various things that come up in discussion - very insightful.

PPS - Wish I still had Pappy's particular Secret Squirrel mug from a long time ago.

Originally Posted by mfer

Ok, people who don't work in IT shouldn't act like they know how encryption works.

[Kneecough]

I completely agree with Mr. Cook's view on this matter.

[Peter11]

I am glad they are willing to stand up to the federal government on this issue. I hope they can continue standing.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Peter11

I am glad they are willing to stand up to the federal government on this issue. I hope they can continue standing.

Exactly. This has implications far beyond Apple and anyone that doesn't see that is naive or blind.

[vitalsignsrn]

Pretty heavy. I agree completely with him. Tim Cook has been rather diplomatic when he says that the government has well intentions. Gotta read between the lines here. :-/

[daveathall]

Why doesn't the FBI just ask Apple to give them the info they want from that particular phone rather than give them a way of defeating all iPhones?

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Why doesn't the FBI just ask Apple to give them the info they want from that particular phone rather than give them a way of defeating all iPhones?

x 2

And I always thought that once the phone was encrypted without password no one in the whole world would be able to retrieve the info on your phone

Apparently that's not correct

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Why doesn't the FBI just ask Apple to give them the info they want from that particular phone rather than give them a way of defeating all iPhones?

This is the key question to me! Crack the bad guys phone and let the rest of us alone.

Most tyranny in history has started by asking one group to give up certain basic rights rights to save them from another group!

This has never worked out well! 1984 is past, let us not re-visit it.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Frosty

This is the key question to me! Crack the bad guys phone and let the rest of us alone.

Most tyranny in history has started by asking one group to give up certain basic rights rights to save them from another group!

This has never worked out well! 1984 is past, let us not re-visit it.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

Apple has unlocked and extracted data for investigators in the past but they were an older ios. 70 times to be exact. But according to a response from Apple to the court, the ability to do the same in ios9 is not possible.

[goin camping]

As a bit of a detour on the topic.

What I find very interesting is in general the divide of opinion is almost all along the line of what country the members are in.

Is this a divide caused by experience with eachs own government. The difference between subjects and citizens. National attitudes. Or?

I remember the great difference in our national attitudes was brought home while watching Top Gear UK. Some American actor was chatting with Jeremy Clarkson about speed cameras. When Jeremy finished complaining about them the American actor asked. "Why don't you just shoot them out. That's what we do?" While we actually don't do that type of stuff as a general rule. I think many Americans view that type of action as an option.

I know why many Americans distrust our government. My government has pulled lots of shenanigans over the years. Plus it's almost an American birthright to complain/fight/rail against our government.

I truly do not know enough about the government in the UK to know if they are trustworthy or not or the national attitude of the people towards their government.

[TheBluePrince]

Apple can use all the pretty words they want but they are supporting a murderous terrorist, end of. A disgusting company through and through just like it's founder.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Apple can use all the pretty words they want but they are supporting a murderous terrorist, end of. A disgusting company through and through just like it's founder.

This was almost too stupid of a comment to dignify a response but I just cant help myself.

In your wildest imagination, how are you able to call Apple a supporter a terrorist when they are choosing to protect the privacy of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE worldwide over a terrorist who's been dead for 2 1/2 months?

We have civil liberties in the country. Once you give the Government a master key to all the locks, you have no privacy and will never get it back.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

This was almost too stupid of a comment to dignify a response but I just cant help myself.

In your wildest imagination, how are you able to call Apple a supporter a terrorist when they are choosing to protect the privacy of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE worldwide over a terrorist who's been dead for 2 1/2 months?

We have civil liberties in the country. Once you give the Government a master key to all the locks, you have no privacy and will never get it back.

Like I said I hope this dead terrorists phone isn't full of the details of other terrorists, I hope those other terrorists don't go on to kill thousands of people.

[k4fap]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

This was almost too stupid of a comment to dignify a response but I just cant help myself.

In your wildest imagination, how are you able to call Apple a supporter a terrorist when they are choosing to protect the privacy of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE worldwide over a terrorist who's been dead for 2 1/2 months?

We have civil liberties in the country. Once you give the Government a master key to all the locks, you have no privacy and will never get it back.

Well said!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Lol-x]

Apple can't even ship a new Macbook to me in downtown LA within 10 days
It has to come from China and that takes 12 days, you can't even buy a fairly standard model in their shops...
Their customer care needs big improvements.....
I had to find out myself, if I got a re-firb it would be delivered next day no one at Apple could suggest that to me.
The guys at Apple hardly know their head from their posterior

OK rant off~

PS> Anyone turns this thread into political and they will be banned forever, just so we are all clear.

Thank you for your co-operation and have a good day (as they say at Apple).

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Apple can't even ship a new Macbook to me in downtown LA within 10 days
It has to come from China and that takes 12 days, you can't even buy a fairly standard model in their shops...
Their customer care needs big improvements.....
I had to find out myself, if I got a re-firb it would be delivered next day no one at Apple could suggest that to me.
The guys at Apple hardly know their head from their posterior

OK rant off~

PS> Anyone turns this thread into political and they will be banned forever, just so we are all clear.

Thank you for your co-operation and have a good day (as they say at Apple).

Don't order direct from Apple. Plenty of resellers out there that have them in stock and at a discount. I don't recommend going bare bones though. Get the memory upgrade for sure. I went 2.9ghz/512gb/12gb. Couldn't be happier.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by mfer

Don't order direct from Apple. Plenty of resellers out there that have them in stock and at a discount. I don't recommend going bare bones though. Get the memory upgrade for sure. I went 2.9ghz/512gb/12gb. Couldn't be happier.

I got Retina Mbook Pro 3.1/i7/512gb/16gb

My business contract says I'm due a new one every year, but this is my first in 4 years so everyone is happy!!!

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I got Retina Mbook Pro 3.1/i7/512gb/16gb

My business contract says I'm due a new one every year, but this is my first in 4 years so everyone is happy!!!

Nice. I should correct I meant 16gb memory. Running parallels and Windows10 vm. Best laptop to run Windows is a mbp!

Ok, back to topic, encryption good!

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by mfer

Nice. I should correct I meant 16gb memory. Running parallels and Windows10 vm. Best laptop to run Windows is a mbp!

Ok, back to topic, encryption good!

I want to run parallels too!!!, but you should have got 16gb...You know you needed that right bro (only joking).
Parallels is where a window opens up within OSX and that window is essentially the Windows10 environment....is that right?

[Marrk]

Hope Tim Cook wins this fight. It's a fight for privacy and against using words like "terror" and "terrorist" as an excuse to abrogate American civil liberties. It's also good business since Apple will lose a considerable marketplace advantage if they can't sell security as a feature of their products.

In addition, the FBI's request seems rather disingenuous. Since the NSA is recording and logging all cell phone calls, the FBI could get what they say they want from the NSA. But what the FBI is really after is legal precedent.

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I got Retina Mbook Pro 3.1/i7/512gb/16gb

My business contract says I'm due a new one every year, but this is my first in 4 years so everyone is happy!!!

Steve, I'm in the market for one of these in 13".

[dalip]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Apple can't even ship a new Macbook to me in downtown LA within 10 days
It has to come from China and that takes 12 days, you can't even buy a fairly standard model in their shops...
Their customer care needs big improvements.....
I had to find out myself, if I got a re-firb it would be delivered next day no one at Apple could suggest that to me.
The guys at Apple hardly know their head from their posterior

OK rant off~

PS> Anyone turns this thread into political and they will be banned forever, just so we are all clear.

Thank you for your co-operation and have a good day (as they say at Apple).

Some of you have clearly failed to heed the advice of Steve above ....You'll know very soon what the outcome is.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by dalip

Some of you have clearly failed to heed the advice of Steve above ....You'll know very soon what the outcome is.

With respect I think we've all tried not to make this overtly political and have remained respectful throughout and on topic without resorting to a slanging match or abuse. This has probably been one of the best topics in Open Chat of late and highly engaging

[dalip]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

With respect I think we've all tried not to make this overtly political and have remained respectful throughout and on topic without resorting to a slanging match or abuse. This has probably been one of the best topics in Open Chat of late and highly engaging

The thread is being kept open for now due to most managing to do exactly that..

However - I quote an example: "Your government has been kicking down doors and persecuting innocent people at least since the American revolution..."

I wouldn't place yourself as spokesperson here...and I wouldn't argue the point with moderation in the open forum.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by dalip

The thread is being kept open for now due to most managing to do exactly that..

However - I quote an example: "Your government has been kicking down doors and persecuting innocent people at least since the American revolution..."

I wouldn't place yourself as spokesperson here...and I wouldn't argue the point with moderation in the open forum.

Point taken, I respect the moderators decisions

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dalip

The thread is being kept open for now due to most managing to do exactly that..

However - I quote an example: "Your government has been kicking down doors and persecuting innocent people at least since the American revolution..."

I wouldn't place yourself as spokesperson here...and I wouldn't argue the point with moderation in the open forum.

Apologies to anyone I may have offended. It was not my intention to be political. But, I should have chosen my posts more carefully.

[WRwatchATL]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

With respect I think we've all tried not to make this overtly political and have remained respectful throughout and on topic without resorting to a slanging match or abuse. This has probably been one of the best topics in Open Chat of late and highly engaging

This was a thoroughly enjoyable thread to read, and I'm glad to see that everyone has kept a respectful tone throughout.

This is a very tricky situation, and I think that the FBI has every right to pursue all possible avenues. However, I respect the stand that Apple have taken, and the repercussions it may have on worldwide privacy security.

That being said...how long before some hacker figures out how to do this anyway...?