PAM610 Pros and Cons?

[Old Expat Beast]

I'm thinking about getting myself a first (and probably only) Panerai and the 610 seems to tick all the boxes for me.. Radiomir case, two hands, long power reserve, etc. However, I'm a Panerai novice and would be interested to hear about any pros and cons from you Panerai guys, from the movement to the case style and more.

Thanks

[gerzzzzz]

Hi Adam,

I'd like to offer my thoughts in it:
1. If resale value does bother you, it is not a crowd's favorite and will take quite a punch when you resell it.
2. P5000 movement is a newer movement hence durability-wise it's hard to say, they are only few years old now
3. Although it's a 45mm watch but it's slightly thinner, so if you're after smaller wearing watch then it'll be a good thing
4. #very subjective point# i personally like older 8 days movement like p2002 aesthetically

I have few 4 pams in the winder and have had almost a dozen, if I can have only 1 pam, it will be 372. If I may ask, how many watches are in your regular rotation? I'm a lazy person and I hated manual winding watch when I started collecting watches, but overtime 3days p3000 movement in 372 is becoming one of my favorites. The case is also full polished (except brushed crownguard) so it can easily be a daily watch, because I can polish the case, bezel, plexiglass to brand new condition whenever I feel like doing it.

[Old Expat Beast]

Hi Gerald. Thanks for all your points. The problem for me with the 372 is I don't like the crown guard. An alternative I 'm looking at is the 210, which I can get used for about $3,800 compared to new/grey $5,400 for the 610. But the 8 days PR is a big plus, as I have quite a few watches in rotation. I'll pass the Panerai boutique tomorrow anyway, so I'll try a 610 on the wrist and see how it feels.

[gerzzzzz]

Hi Adam,

Yes, 372 is not really for everyone; crown guard, big 47 diameter, domed plexi, thickness, it makes the watch wear pretty large compared to other similar diameter.

As you can see, 44mm 233 may look pretty large because of the dome crystal:


Between a discontinued 210 and brand new 610, for that much difference, it's a good decision to get the 610. I currently keep only 1 radiomir, a 425, it's simplicity is 10/10, gold hands are a nice touch, and 47mm is a big plus for me.
Then again, 425 is either love or hate kind of watch.

Just checking if you've checked the 1940 series?
587 on the far right wears smaller despite of it's 47mm diameter, because the lack of crown guard and pretty flat crystal:



Let us know how you go with the boutique tomorrow :)
You can try RF, WUS, Paneristi network54 listings, you'll find great deals for pams there.

[Cru Jones]

exciting times, adam!

the 610 is a very fine choice. base (3/6/9/12, 2 hands) with a great 8-day movement. the radiomir case is very elegant, with the cushion shape and wire lugs, giving it more of a dress feel compared to the luminors. just ask mik (mfer) what he thinks of radiomirs.

and for a recent panerai, i love that it has regular lume and not the fake/ecru lume that is all the rage at OP these days.

as gerald said above, if you are buying new, this model will depreciate more than the basic luminor models. if you are buying used/grey or to keep, though, not a big deal at all.

another "con" is that the wire lugs of this style radiomir are a bit more tricky to manipulate compared to some of the other case styles. but, if you don't plan to change straps often, or if you have the time, it's not a big deal.

the only other "con" i can think of is purely subjective: whether you mind the "8 DAYS" text on the dial.

as for other radiomirs, you are right to look at the 210, as there are great deals out there, and you can also consider the 232, which is a modern day icon of panerai.

good luck with the hunt!

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

exciting times, adam!

the 610 is a very fine choice. base (3/6/9/12, 2 hands) with a great 8-day movement. the radiomir case is very elegant, with the cushion shape and wire lugs, giving it more of a dress feel compared to the luminors. just ask mik (mfer) what he thinks of radiomirs.

and for a recent panerai, i love that it has regular lume and not the fake/ecru lume that is all the rage at OP these days.

as gerald said above, if you are buying new, this model will depreciate more than the basic luminor models. if you are buying used/grey or to keep, though, not a big deal at all.

another "con" is that the wire lugs of this style radiomir are a bit more tricky to manipulate compared to some of the other case styles. but, if you don't plan to change straps often, or if you have the time, it's not a big deal.

the only other "con" i can think of is purely subjective: whether you mind the "8 DAYS" text on the dial.

as for other radiomirs, you are right to look at the 210, as there are great deals out there, and you can also consider the 232, which is a modern day icon of panerai.

good luck with the hunt!

Thanks Cru, for all that. The 232 looks really good, too, though obviously a bit more expensive.

[Old Expat Beast]

Thanks Gerald, I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow. The one second from right in your pic is also nice...that's a 425? I think 47mm is maybe too large for my 7.25 wrist, though.

[gerzzzzz]

No worries, from left to right 233 320 372 425 587

For reference on my previous 233 wrist shot, my wrist size is 17cm around 6.7inch.
Here's how 425 sit on my wrist:

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by gerzzzzz

No worries, from left to right 233 320 372 425 587

For reference on my previous 233 wrist shot, my wrist size is 17cm around 6.7inch.
Here's how 425 sit on my wrist:

Looks great on your wrist. So now I guess I'm narrowing it down (or opening it up) to 610, 210, 232 and 425!

[gerzzzzz]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Looks great on your wrist. So now I guess I'm narrowing it down (or opening it up) to 610, 210, 232 and 425!

looks like you're more confused than before you wrote the thread

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Looks great on your wrist. So now I guess I'm narrowing it down (or opening it up) to 610, 210, 232 and 425!

nice! good idea to go to the boutique and try as many on as you can.

despite being 47, the 425 will wear smaller, width-wise, due to the wire lugs compared to, say, the 372. however, note that it is substantially thicker than the other three in your list. also, note that the more "historically accurate" SLC dial is the 449, since it has the blue hands. that being said, i actually prefer the "pop" of the 425's gold hands (it just has less so-called "DNA", so, maybe an impact on re-sale).

the 232 also is 47, but should wear better IMHO than the 425 due to its thinner (relatively speaking) case. of course, the 425 might actually fit really well on your wrist. only one way to know.

and since you are expanding your radiomir list, you really need to also consider the 249 (cali dial), which is another modern day icon in the range.

Originally Posted by gerzzzzz

looks like you're more confused than before you wrote the thread

so true. panerai can be a can of worms if you really start poking around. that being said, it's also what's so great about the brand. some may say that "they all look the same", but, scratch the surface, and there's a really rich range of choices with the possiblitiy to find just the right watch that ticks all of the boxes for you. just takes time and patience and a good sense of memory for numbers.

[Old Expat Beast]

Terrific stuff, many thanks Cru

[nick c]

Hi Adam you are a wise guy so 610 is a great piece good luck with the hunt

[R1@160@alltimes]

I just got myself a 590 with same p5000 movement and although it is new I am sure it will stand the test of time. Besides it smooth as butter when being wound.

Good luck with your hunt

[subtona]

Radiomir are very good looking panerai and the wire lugs are a very original and unique idea, they are however a pia to swap out straps with.

The luminova and even a couple of newer radiomir use more traditional lugs with screws, the are much more satisfying in ease of use.

000 or 111 would be my best recommend.

My first panerai was a 210 radiomir and I still think it is a great looking watch.

Ps I am not a fan of the extraneous writing on the dial, in my experience it grows tiresome, i.e. "8 days" or "black seal" etc...
To the point of 8 days, panerai has respectable power reserve on most models, approaching 3 days, this will get you through the weekend and without a date to set it is a simple pleasure to set the Pam and go. (A date on a Pam would be a deal breaker for me)

Pps I am also a big fan of the ETA movements you can still find in a few models. In the past, Panerai service has not been considered so wonderful and with an ETA movement your options for service are expansive.

Enjoy your Pam journey Adam

[Old Expat Beast]

Thanks Gus. I have heard bad reports about servicing in HK, too, so perhaps the ETA (and the cleaner dial) make the 210 move ahead of the 610. Anyway, I'll see how the 610 feels tomorrow and assume the 210 would feel much the same.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Thanks Gus. I have heard bad reports about servicing in HK, too, so perhaps the ETA (and the cleaner dial) make the 210 move ahead of the 610. Anyway, I'll see how the 610 feels tomorrow and assume the 210 would feel much the same.

They are very similar in the way they wear. I've tried them all.

Just look over the sandwich vs flat dials while at boutique. Both are cool.

[mfer]

Pros
This is the original Panerai design. Google Panerai 3646
Wears much smaller than 45mm size dictates due to thinness and lugs
8 days in-house display
It just looks good

Cons
Not Rolex accurate
While display back movement is 'eh. 210 actually looks better IMHO

SUBJECTIVE
It is tougher than you think. My 232 went through the washing machine and came out fine
The design is sublime. I can't think of a better looking case
You can take it in the water (many will disagree), just get a waterproof strap
The new flat dial of the 610 is a little more reminiscent of the 21.
You won't see 210 at a boutique, but look at some cutout/sandwich dials to see if you'd like the 210 over the 610.
It is in-house which means only Panerai will service. 210, easily services for cheap.
You could modify hands on a 210 as they are ETA based. Good hands look awesome and even blued steel. I don't see you as modifying type however.

If I could (financially), I'd own every 2 and 3 handed Radiomir there is.

[kechy]

Originally Posted by mfer

The design is sublime. I can't think of a better looking case

+1. The rad case is such a pure design...the lines flow right where they should - nothing superfluous.

Also, many dislike the '8 DAYS' writing - one of the benefits for me is that it puts the RADIOMIR and PANERAI text together at the top, which I prefer. I currently own two models with the 8 DAYS text and it really doesn't bother me at all.

The 610 looks great! One con might be if you prefer the sandwich dial.

My 2 cents. Good luck in your search!

[cervantes]

I owned it and moved it on. Wanted a second hand and a sandwich dial. Panerai claims it's a 'slight' sandwich dial but it just didn't come off that way to me. Movement was nice, pleasure to wind, and kept good time. Quite comfy too.

[TonyD]

Some great advice up there.

My $0.02:

I prefer the sandwich dial on a simple Panerai
I'd prefer something interesting to make it stand out. Maybe gold hands?
Your wrists are not too small to pull of 47mm. Make sure you try them on and wear each for at least a few minutes.

Good luck! No bad decisions can be made here!

[ocwatching]

welcome to the panerai world

Sandwich dial is where its at and nice pop with gold hands...
maybe a 190?

[stockae92]

I thought earlier production series 610 has sandwich dial?

Anyway, I like the idea of 610. I would like to have longer PR with a screw down crown so I don't have to screw and unscrew the crown ever so often.

Also, compare with the 210, the 610 has the "updated" fat "6" dial which I enjoy. Movement-wise, its not much to see but having a decorated movement with a display back is still nice. And its an in-house movement to boot (you will be pay PSC for the service though if you don't mind)

The P5000 has been working fine for me on my 510, wind smoothly and I don't detect any timing issue.

[Old Expat Beast]

Thanks guys for all of the above. Very useful and much appreciated.

[Old Expat Beast]

Tried the 610 on today at the Panerai boutique. Looked and felt pretty good, but $6385 with zero discount (but a free extra strap of my choice) compared to about $3,700 for a used 210 full set...going to have to think on this one a bit more.

[gerzzzzz]

Looks good Adam!!
NON Boutique price aint too bad:
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=458397
http://www.chrono24.com/en/panerai/ref-pam00610.htm

[Cru Jones]

Really nice fit!

As for pricing, yes, that's to be expected at the boutique and AD (sometimes one can get two extra straps).

Trusted sellers will be able to beat that price, even considering the strap price.

[mfer]

Just so you know Adam, that strap is UGLY. They really need to switch out the default strap on that 610. It doesn't do the watch justice.

[cervantes]

Originally Posted by mfer

Just so you know Adam, that strap is UGLY. They really need to switch out the default strap on that 610. It doesn't do the watch justice.

Agreed. The stock strap really lets the watch down.

[Mastergreenhand]

Go for the 210. So much more for your dollar. I had one and miss it