Hell Yeah!

[Gedanken]

A well deserved win by Fernando Alonso - it's about bloody time we saw someone who wasn't going to roll over and die for Michael Scummaker. We may actually get a real championship now.

Damn good job by Kimi Raikonnen, moving up from the back of the grid to the podium, but if today was anything to go by, the man to watch is Nico Rosberg.

[padi56]

Bet Fernando the Sharkman is doing cartwheels,about time the shoemaker lost his crown.

[Gedanken]

Pfft - Scumsucker never deserved a crown in the first place.

And where the bloody hell is Sharky (pardon the pun iof you've been keeping up with the latest in Australian tourism)?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Pfft - Scumsucker never deserved a crown in the first place.

And where the bloody hell is Sharky (pardon the pun iof you've been keeping up with the latest in Australian tourism)?

Sharky got a few problems he is in Namibia at the moment.

[Rto]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

A well deserved win by Fernando Alonso - it's about bloody time we saw someone who wasn't going to roll over and die for Michael Scummaker. We may actually get a real championship now.

Damn good job by Kimi Raikonnen, moving up from the back of the grid to the podium, but if today was anything to go by, the man to watch is Nico Rosberg.

You are right! Formula 1 seems to be getting back to the good and competitive times!! Happy with Nico with a great season start and the confidence he has for sure his father's racing blood.

I just miss "magic" SENNA, the real champion of all times!

[Gedanken]

Renato, we're going to get along just fine - Senna was THE man. If Imola 94 hadn't happened, we'd be saying "Michael who?".

[Rto]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Renato, we're going to get along just fine - Senna was THE man. If Imola 94 hadn't happened, we'd be saying "Michael who?".

That was one of the most sadness sunday morning (my time)...May 1st 1994...
(I'm not disconsidering Schummy at all as a great champion, but he never had anyone to compete against him for real...it was always against himself ...anyway, you really need to be good to win a championship)

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Renato, we're going to get along just fine - Senna was THE man. If Imola 94 hadn't happened, we'd be saying "Michael who?".

I read the same sentiments on Dutch F1 websites and I don’t agree. No matter how many F1 wins Schumacher collects, no matter how many polls, no matter how many championships, people just keep saying this is undeserved and that Senna was the greatest. After that follow a lot of ifs and buts. However, this is not the early nineties, this is now. It was a tactical mistake that made him finish second, and it IS a team effort, not the driver alone. If you don’t like the guy personally, just say so. I believe it is unfair to put down and simplify his performance in F1. Is the fact that there was not enough competition in the past his fault or just the poor performance of the other teams? Toyota has a whopping 400 million Euro budget now and look where their cars were today

[dman]

I actually understand your post and am happy that F1 is back too. Boy what a difference a year can make.

[Uncle-AJ]

I'm in Bahrain at the moment and didn't get here until after the race. If it was so exciting I might start watching F1 again. Maybe next year I'll have to take the day off.

[Gedanken]

Frans, I'll make no secret of my view of Schumacher as a cheating scumbag, what with Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997. Yes, other drivers have forced their opponents out of the way before, but actually ramming them is going too damned far. This guy is NOT a champion.

Performance? What performance? Schumacher's feared "chop" wasn't a problem when he was trying to pull it on the really good drivers back in the early 90's. Senna drove right round him like it never happened, and the old hands like Mansell and Prost shrugged it off - that's saying a lot about the standard of driving when Schumacher was running away with the goodies and everybody was bleating about the chop.

And what the hell kind of 7-time WDC (choke!) needs a tail gunner who pulls over for him at the last lap?!

It's not Schumacher behind all of those stats. It's Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne, who put together a series of damned good cars and race strategies. Look at what happened last year when Schumacher finally DIDN'T get a car that was the class of the field - he flip-flopped about until he got the gift of a 6-car race. Even with the substandard MP 4/8, Senna managed to take 5 wins when straight-line speed didn't count (Monaco, Adelaide, Donnington Park in the wet) - I don't see Schumacher doing anything like that.

I'll thank you to speak with some repect here, Frans. Maybe a lot of the Schumacher fanboys treat racing like pop music or movies, but I will not stand for you telling me in a condescending tone that I simply don't like the guy because that implies that I don't appreciate racing. Try telling John that he just doesn't like Lance Armstrong, or Al that he just doesn't like Simon Fairweather, and see if you'll make it as far as the door.

If you think he's so good, please present evidence. I personally see nothing that puts him in the same class as Senna, Clark, Moss or Fangio.

I actually didn't know the F1 season had started until I accidentally fumbled upon the race on TV midday.

I gotta say, Alonso has been my man since before his F1 debut, and he did a helluva fine job in outclassing Schumi throughout the race. But I have to say I was thrilled for Rosberg! I was a HUGE fan of Keke's back in the day, so it's pretty cool to see his son do well in his debut. It's gotta be weird for Frank Williams though. I mean, he employed Keke (who won him a championship) and now he's employing his son. Weird.

As for Schmu... personally I hate the man. He's a megolomaniac but more importantly, he's a cheat, as shown by his two ramming incidents. THe one with Hill was dubious but the ramming of Villeneuve was so blatent, MS should have been banned from F1 for life!

However, he actually is a very good driver, not the best of all time by any means, but he's very fast. I think his championships can be accounted to the fact that (a) the quality of his competitors has never been close - that is to say, the other drivers are of rather poor quality (b) the budget of Ferrari has been HUGE. Like more than all the 'non-factory' teams put together and yes, money does buy a car that is the class of the field and (c) without the likes of Jean Todt, Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn, MS would be NOWHERE.

These days, driving talent alone doesn't get you an F1 ride. It takes a huge sum of money behind you. The only people who can afford to drive in F1 are the kids of mega-millionaires, who may be so-so talented, but have a big bankroll behind them. The really talented drivers who don't have so much $$ behind them also suffer if they're from a country that isn't valued in terms of F1 product marketing. Like if a driver came from NZ, he'd get little hope of a ride cuz there's no kiwi GP (nice ring, huh?), and the population there is outnumbered by sheep, so little marketing opportunities.

Senna was a monster, so was Prost, so was Lauda (first and second time around), but F1 gets mighty boring very fast when you have a team that can walk away with every race as Senna and Prost did in the McLarens. I actually stopped watching F1 when Senna was on top cuz there was no question as to who would win. Same pretty much for F1 with MS and Ferrari the past few years. BORING.

I'm quite sure that if all the current F1 drivers were put in identical cars, on a course they all know equally, you'd see the cream rise to the top and I'm betting that MS would be close to the front of the grid, but not in the first couple of rows.

Originally Posted by Gedanken

If you think he's so good, please present evidence. I personally see nothing that puts him in the same class as Senna, Clark, Moss or Fangio.

And don't forget Gilles Villeneuve. I easily put GV in the same class as Senna, Clark, Moss, Fangio, Lauda, Stewart, Brabham.

BTW... ahem... see my avatar?

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Atomic

And don't forget Gilles Villeneuve. I easily put GV in the same class as Senna, Clark, Moss, Fangio, Lauda, Stewart, Brabham.

BTW... ahem... see my avatar?

Ooooh, yeah - Villeneuve/Arnoux at Dijon 1979 still gives me goosebumps.

Don't forget the third RB, John - it was Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne and Rubens Barrichello. What's a 7-time WDC without his tail-gunner?

As for the McLaren years, you're right, and that's why 1993 was arguably Senna's best year. 75kW down on the Williams FW-14s, even less power than Schumacher's Benetton, and Senna still took five wins at places where the driver counted more than the car.

[dman]

Seriously, it is amazing how much I can/have learned from you guys about this stuff.

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Ooooh, yeah - Villeneuve/Arnoux at Dijon 1979 still gives me goosebumps.

I saw a show on SPEED channel called lap of the gods and that one wheel-bumping lap was number 1, I think.

I remember watching it live and was amazed! Today's cars would break under that stress. THAT was racing at its finest.

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

I'll thank you to speak with some repect here, Frans. Maybe a lot of the Schumacher fanboys treat racing like pop music or movies, but I will not stand for you telling me in a condescending tone that I simply don't like the guy because that implies that I don't appreciate racing.

No, it wasn't my intention to insult you in anyway, and my answer didn't imply that you don't like F1. You just don't like the guy, that's all. Before this gets hairy allow me to end with one question: is there nothing in his entire carreer that you like or appreciate? That's all and we'll close the matter

P.S. If you get the chance, check out the team budgets for this year....

Originally Posted by Gedanken

.........or Al that he just doesn't like Simon Fairweather.......

I don't want to get into the MS discussion, but wanted to point out that I am certainly impressed that James knows who Simon Fairweather is. Good on ya mate!

And by the way, I've met him and he's an okay guy......

For those who don't know who this is and can't use Google, he won the individual gold medal in archery at the 2000 Olympics - my coach was there coaching the Canadian team and said it was quite something to see him win it on home soil in front of an Australian crowd.

Originally Posted by Avalon

I don't want to get into the MS discussion, but wanted to point out that I am certainly impressed that James knows who Simon Fairweather is. Good on ya mate!

And by the way, I've met him and he's an okay guy......

For those who don't know who this is and can't use Google, he won the individual gold medal in archery at the 2000 Olympics - my coach was there coaching the Canadian team and said it was quite something to see him win it on home soil in front of an Australian crowd.

Well... he should have won the gold. I read that for practice, he shoots arrows across the Tasmanian Sea and can accurately pick off kiwis, right between their eyes.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Well... he should have won the gold. I read that for practice, he shoots arrows across the Tasmanian Sea and can accurately pick off kiwis, right between their eyes.

Is that at low level, when they are on there knees, praying to their sheep.

Originally Posted by Atomic

Well... he should have won the gold. I read that for practice, he shoots arrows across the Tasmanian Sea and can accurately pick off kiwis, right between their eyes.

I'll have to email him JJ's picture when I get home from work.

Originally Posted by Avalon

I'll have to email him JJ's picture when I get home from work.

I think he woulda picked him off already, but JJ's too fast because of all his flipping practise.

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Avalon

I don't want to get into the MS discussion, but wanted to point out that I am certainly impressed that James knows who Simon Fairweather is. Good on ya mate!

And by the way, I've met him and he's an okay guy......

For those who don't know who this is and can't use Google, he won the individual gold medal in archery at the 2000 Olympics - my coach was there coaching the Canadian team and said it was quite something to see him win it on home soil in front of an Australian crowd.

Hey Al, you know we Aussies love our atheletes!

[Rto]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Frans, I'll make no secret of my view of Schumacher as a cheating scumbag, what with Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997. Yes, other drivers have forced their opponents out of the way before, but actually ramming them is going too damned far. This guy is NOT a champion.

Performance? What performance? Schumacher's feared "chop" wasn't a problem when he was trying to pull it on the really good drivers back in the early 90's. Senna drove right round him like it never happened, and the old hands like Mansell and Prost shrugged it off - that's saying a lot about the standard of driving when Schumacher was running away with the goodies and everybody was bleating about the chop.

And what the hell kind of 7-time WDC (choke!) needs a tail gunner who pulls over for him at the last lap?!

It's not Schumacher behind all of those stats. It's Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne, who put together a series of damned good cars and race strategies. Look at what happened last year when Schumacher finally DIDN'T get a car that was the class of the field - he flip-flopped about until he got the gift of a 6-car race. Even with the substandard MP 4/8, Senna managed to take 5 wins when straight-line speed didn't count (Monaco, Adelaide, Donnington Park in the wet) - I don't see Schumacher doing anything like that.

I'll thank you to speak with some repect here, Frans. Maybe a lot of the Schumacher fanboys treat racing like pop music or movies, but I will not stand for you telling me in a condescending tone that I simply don't like the guy because that implies that I don't appreciate racing. Try telling John that he just doesn't like Lance Armstrong, or Al that he just doesn't like Simon Fairweather, and see if you'll make it as far as the door.

If you think he's so good, please present evidence. I personally see nothing that puts him in the same class as Senna, Clark, Moss or Fangio.

Does it makes you remember how "Magic" it was??

[Gedanken]

Well, Frans, it was the line, "If you don't like him personally, just say so". Since I don't know him personally, I interpret it to mean that what I say about him stems simply from my not liking his personality, which I take umbrage at. I watch RACING, not racing drivers, and from that perspective I'm not impressed at all with Willi Weber's shrink-wrapped package.

Is there nothing that I like about his career? I've heard claims that he's emulated Senna in the amount of work he has put in trackside during testing, but that's unsubstantiated. On-track, I haven't seen anything particularly exciting from him - F1 has turned into a high-speed procession (something that hopefully started changing from last year) and when he hasn't been romping off with the goodies from the front, he's really given little to watch.

Well, there is one exception - remember when David Coulhard gave him the finger WHILE passing him on the outside? That was amusing.

I agree with John. MS is good, but 7-time WDC good? No way. If the grid was anywhere as good as it was in the mid eighties or early nineties, or if the Ferraris were made of spit and Kleenex like the McLarens, he'd be a Hakkinen or Frentzen.

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Well, there is one exception - remember when David Coulhard gave him the finger WHILE passing him on the outside? That was amusing.

I still wake up at night chuckling about that one.

Best 'F1 moment' since the mid-80s.

[Goodwatch]

Great pic Frans!

Hey, do you live close to Zandvoort? There were some classic battles there back in the good old 1980s. Ever go to the GP there?

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Great pic Frans!

Hey, do you live close to Zandvoort? There were some classic battles there back in the good old 1980s. Ever go to the GP there?

I have 295 pictures from the race In my country, everything is close, it's about a 1.5 hours drive. Halas, in those days I didn't have the cash to go there, still at school (in mean the 70's). Even after completely renovating the circuit, they can't (or won't) get the licence. The fee to get a Grand Prix is also very high (30 million $?).

But attending a GP is on my list of things to do in my life. Spa is out, so it means Germany to stay close. Tickets are aroung 300 Euro and then there's the trip. But I already have the ear plugs

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

I have 295 pictures from the race In my country, everything is close, it's about a 1.5 hours drive. Halas, in those days I didn't have the cash to go there, still at school (in mean the 70's). Even after completely renovating the circuit, they can't (or won't) get the licence. The fee to get a Grand Prix is also very high (30 million $?).

But attending a GP is on my list of things to do in my life. Spa is out, so it means Germany to stay close. Tickets are aroung 300 Euro and then there's the trip. But I already have the ear plugs

I hear ya (lol). Now that I'm in Ottawa, Montreal is only 1.5 hours away so I may finally go and see the Canadian GP this year (anyone want to join me?). The last time I was at a Canadian GP, it was held at Mosport, near Bowmanville (a town my family founded, no joke). And that was in the 70s too. Since then, Mr. Panoz bought Mosport and renovated it, but it's still not up to F1 code... and then there's the US$30+ Million Mr. Napolean complex wants to host the race...