RO perpetual pt

[lapince]

Hi all,

After buying an unworn 15300 blue dial last week, there will be an incoming but since it is being sent in Paris and I won't be there before 3 weeks, I won't see it before. I have taken an interest in some AP's, more particularly platinum PC's.

If I decide to get one, I will need to sell my CE diver. Would like to know if you think I should and add cash for one. I have already the 5712, the 15300 is paid for and will arrive shortly, and after the holidays I am getting the 5711, which will make 3 white metal watches on bracelet, should I flip the CE diver for a PT PC, which will make 4 white metal watches, 2 RO and 2 Nautilus, or keep the diver? Getting a 60K watch and keeping the diver is not an option.

I always found full PT watches very cool, esp 5711 but the RO´s as well, and the only choice possible since the PP is unobtainable and a little expensive for what it is.

My choice is basically between these two, a used salmon dial, and an unworn blue dial.
The blue dial is great but doesn't have any tapisserie dial, whereas the salmon dial has it.

Would love to know if one of you knows how many of each were produced, I would think the salmon is rarer as it carries a clear premium, 67K used, 111K new and the blue 62K new, ok there is one new for 94K, so the new one, if it is really new, for 62K is a very good deal, but the dealer seems to be trustworthy, in any case if ever I was to get one, I would of course go see the watch in person first.

I would tend to prefer blue, but I will have 2 blue Nautilus and 1 blue RO, maybe the salmon is a better choice, though the salmon for 65K is used whereas the blue for 60K is unworn, but it seems rarer and I don't have any salmon dial watch, and it has the tapisserie. Of course the salmon dial seems not great for readability, most certainly isn't, while the blue dial seems much better on that matter.

There is also another one which is nice and much cheaper, around 30K, but it only has the bezel and the attachments on the bracelet in PT, the rest is SS, and it has the waffle dial. Nice but the interest of the watch is having an ultra thin all PT one.

All these models are 25820, with PT for the full PT, and SP for the SS/PT, and were made in 2005/2006, from what I can find, maybe until a little later...

Thanks in advance for your replies

Salmon PT


Blue PT


Blue SS/PT

[benlee]

No for me. Keep the CE Diver to add some variety. Unless you already bored with / no longer like it.

I like the current 41mm PPC from AP but not the older versions unless it's the skeletonized full gold version.

P/S: Getting both 5712A and 5711 not a bit redundant? Both are ultra-thin SS bracelet nautilus

[texex91]

Originally Posted by benlee

No for me. Keep the CE Diver to add some variety. Unless you already bored with / no longer like it.

I like the current 41mm PPC from AP but not the older versions unless it's the skeletonized full gold version.

P/S: Getting both 5712A and 5711 not a bit redundant? Both are ultra-thin SS bracelet nautilus

x100.

But congrats on 15300 blue, just a great priced older AP that is hard to beat (post some pics from seller so we can see it).

[lapince]

Originally Posted by benlee

No for me. Keep the CE Diver to add some variety. Unless you already bored with / no longer like it.

I like the current 41mm PPC from AP but not the older versions unless it's the skeletonized full gold version.

P/S: Getting both 5712A and 5711 not a bit redundant? Both are ultra-thin SS bracelet nautilus

Well I intent on keeping the 5711 in the safe for some time when I get it, and not put it in rotation, will probably take it out and wear it when my 5712 will be gone for service in 5 years, as if I have both I will probably wear only my favorite, the 5712 of course...
i like the diver, but in competition with the 5167R and 5712, it isn't worn as daily, I do wear it though when i go somewhere crouded, concerts, clubs, don't have to worry about some other guy's watch destroying the bezel, and will most certainly take it as my light beater vacation watch.

There is of course another solution, a 25829pt, found a mint one for 80K, which brings PT, PC and skeleton,

Originally Posted by texex91

x100.

But congrats on 15300, just a great priced older AP that is hard to beat.

Thanks Paul what do you think about the 25829?

[texex91]

Originally Posted by lapince

Thanks Paul what do you think about the 25829?

It's certainly nice, but keep in mind an older AP with complications will not be an inexpensive service (not that you care, but keep it in mind).

I'd personally grab a simple openworked 15407ST.

I still think you will be left without a real sports watch if you trade CE.

[Tourbeon]

Originally Posted by texex91

It's certainly nice, but keep in mind an older AP with complications will not be an inexpensive service (not that you care, but keep it in mind).

I'd personally grab a simple openwork 15407ST.

My thoughts exactly. I posted a similar poll 15407 vs 26574 which is the newer perpetual. General consensus was the open work is the better choice, being better in that category. There are plenty of better options in the perpetual space.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Or trade both both your very similar Pateks + cash for a 5711p?

No, I love the 5712 too much, the 5711P is great but not as a daily, too heavy, plus for 100K that's too much IMO for what it is, basically 2 5711 and 2 5712, just for'a 5711 in PT, would prefer to grab instead a 15203 AP, PT and skeleton, new it's more than a 5711P, but I think when a used one becomes available it could be had for around 80K.

Originally Posted by texex91

It's certainly nice, but keep in mind an older AP with complications will not be an inexpensive service (not that you care, but keep it in mind).

I'd personally grab a simple openwork 15407ST.

Not bad choice, I was thinking about a skeleton as well, what would be the best is a skeleton in PT, not sure I could get one as they are not cheap, haven't seen a used one for sale yet, but great watch, if ever one comes on the used market and at a reasonable price, no idea what ithe 15407ST is also very cool.

This is something though

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by texex91

It's certainly nice, but keep in mind an older AP with complications will not be an inexpensive service (not that you care, but keep it in mind).

I'd personally grab a simple openworked 15407ST.

I still think you will be left without a real sports watch if you trade CE.

Totally agree - love the PCs but have a soft spot for the openworks!

[AshAP]

Or trade both both your very similar Pateks + cash for a 5711p?

[Tourbeon]

Originally Posted by lapince

Would love to know if one of you knows how many of each were produced, I would think the salmon is rarer as it carries a clear premium, 67K used, 111K new and the blue 62K new, ok there is one new for 94K, so the new one, if it is really new, for 62K is a very good deal, but the dealer seems to be trustworthy, in any case if ever I was to get one, I would of course go see the watch in person first.

In this price range why not look at the newer 41mm perpetual 26574? New around $60 used for less

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Tourbeon

In this price range why not look at the newer 41mm perpetual 26574? New around $60 used for less

Well because I would like a full PT piece, in fact I don't care much about the PC complications, betwen an open work and a PC I take the open any day.
But trying to find a full PT RO, the affordable ones were with PC, but it is probably not the best choice for me, the ideal, but out of my price range would be a PT skeleton, most likely a SS skeleton.

Thanks for your advices, will take a look to see if there are any skeletons that I would want, I am not in any hurry, so will wait to see if any PT one comes in used market, if one doesn't then will see about SS skeletons

[AK797]

I really like salmon dials, so I'd sell the CE for that. Something rather aristocratic about them plus you are covered for blue.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by AK797

I really like salmon dials, so I'd sell the CE for that. Something rather aristocratic about them plus you are covered for blue.

For blue yes I am covered, when all pieces are in, I will have 4, 2 PP, 1 AP and the Voutilainen.

The problem with these when I think about it, is sure they are nice but would not be my first choices, my first choice would be the skeleton RO in PT, too expensive, or a simple time and date RO in PT, didn't see any that really appeal, so Paul's suggestion of getting a 15407ST is a pretty good one, will be my first skeleton.

Anyways will think about all this, try to see these and other pieces when will be in Paris and Zurich at the end of the month, the PT PC is in Monaco, could go from CH to there before going to Paris, and hopefully I will be able to see a 1540ST in one of those places, and if the 15407 really appeals to me an incoming should appear at some point soon, no need to wait as I don't think there will be any price difference in 2-5 years from now, even 15305ST are priced very close to retail and just a little under the 15407ST.

[mineral]

I will strongly recommend the salmon dial RO. I have the salmon jumbo jubilee and look great with formal or casual attire.

[texex91]

I really think 15407ST is a beautiful piece yet can dress up or down.

HOWEVER, if you get rid of CE what sports watch will you have? Won't you be dress watch heavy (sorry Nauts are not sports watches in my book)?

That's okay if you prefer dress watches, just thought you wanted a clubbing, go out, vacation watch--or did you get the Daytona?

Just thinking outloud that some flavor (ceramic, FC, etc) other than SS would be nice in the collection.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by mineral

I will strongly recommend the salmon dial RO. I have the salmon jumbo jubilee and look great with formal or casual attire.

Would'be nice to see some pics
Q

Originally Posted by texex91

I really think 15407ST is a beautiful piece yet can dress up or down.

HOWEVER, if you get rid of CE what sports watch will you have? Won't you be dress watch heavy (sorry Nauts are not sports watches in my book)?

That's okay if you prefer dress watches, just thought you wanted a clubbing, go out, vacation watch--or did you get the Daytona?

Just thinking outloud that some flavor (ceramic, FC, etc) other than SS would be nice in the collection.

Well I am getting the Daytona at the end of the month when I go see Kari in CH, but was thinking of giving it to my wife.

You are right if I sell the diver I would need to find a replacement in that category, of course if I get the 15407ST, then I could afford not to sell anything for some time, yes it is stetching my watch budget a lot, but when the money put in it will be needed, not for some time, then I could always sell some piece when I need to put the cash back into the investment budget, but for the PT salmon, buying it without selling anything would really be too much, at the same time I think it is nice, but the one which would be more of a keeper is a skeleton, the only one which I like and which is in my budget is the 15407, now all I need to do is find one to try on, which is a must, not really a fan of the 15400 size and proportions, but maybe the skeleton dial gives it better proportions, finding one to try on could be difficult, will send an email to AD's in Paris and Zurich to see if there is one and we will see from there.

About RO's and Nautilus not being sport watches I totally agree, IMO they are sporty dress watches, I wouldn't do any kind of sport with any of them.

[APAP]

You'll regret selling the CE diver. There are becoming harder to find by the day. I'd stick to it.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by APAP

You'll regret selling the CE diver. There are becoming harder to find by the day. I'd stick to it.

Yes they are becoming quite rare, and the prices reflect the rarity, even with the many 44 offerings a 42mm CE watch will have following, it is still quite smaller and better fitted for many...

[lapince]

Originally Posted by APAP

You'll regret selling the CE diver. There are becoming harder to find by the day. I'd stick to it.

Yes they are becoming quite rare, and the prices reflect the rarity, even with the many 44 offerings a 42mm CE watch will have following, it is still quite smaller and better fitted for many...

[goog53]

Keep the CE Diver my friend! Just a badass watch and offers great variety. I'd look at a 15305 (15407 is a beauty but prefer the 39mm ROs and the gold balance wheel on the newer version for me is a bit distracting). Have you seen Wayne's Salmon Dial ROC Chrono on Instagram? That is a damn beauty

[lapince]

Originally Posted by goog53

Keep the CE Diver my friend! Just a badass watch and offers great variety. I'd look at a 15305 (15407 is a beauty but prefer the 39mm ROs and the gold balance wheel on the newer version for me is a bit distracting). Have you seen Wayne's Salmon Dial ROC Chrono on Instagram? That is a damn beauty

Nope Mike, haven't seen his salmon ROC, I am not big on chronos, but if I wanted one some day, I would most certainly get the TI Leo Messi or TI Schumacher from AP, both very cool, though I am sure his is very nice, for me the nicest salmon dials are from PP, but AP is right behind and to be honest appart them, FPJ and maybe one or two very small independents, don't think I ever saw any from other brands.

Edit: just saw the salmon ROC, very nice, though I still prefer one of the 2 I talked about.

Never liked the 15305 in SS, looks very nice in RG but in SS just too much grey going on for me. I find the 15407 better in that sense as the dial has more things going on, but not sure the 41mm would be nice on me, clearly need to try it on, already made a list of Paris and Zurich AP AD's, will call them when I am there, there should be one with it in stock...

You're probably right about the diver, having a ceramic watch does have advantages and it is one of the best in this style.
Anyways will take a look at the 15407 when I get a chance to, if I really like it then why not, always time to figure out which piece to flip when the time comes...

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by lapince

Blue PT
Attachment 795486

Unless I’m mistaken, and your thread title isn’t 100% accurate, this AP RO is not a Perpetual Calendar – it’s just an Annual one.

Personally, I’d suggest you scrap the 5711 incoming, ditch the 15300 or swap to the white dial for something other than blue as your only choice.

I’m not seeing the purpose or benefit of having – but then I am heavily biased against the sub-dial type PCs. You know my preference is for GO's, FPJ’s, and UN’s, in that order.

In all honesty, Arnaud, it seems you're trying to keep up with the ‘Joneses’ on here, and you supposedly had a self-imposed limit on new acquisitions, which didn’t include the DaytonaC, the KV, and certainly not the 15300.
On that point, I’d say why not just give yourself a chance to take stock of things until after the 5711 and Vingt-8.

I’m guessing your confidence has been knocked by the 15707’s case issue, even though it sorted out under warranty/goodwill, and has a new service warranty or extension to the original.
Fair enough if that’s the case, but it’s a nice and different watch to the rest of what’s in your box.

If you’ve moved away from bulky watches, and you have a desire to throw €60K at something, then I’d be looking more at the FPJ PC, even if it means the Daytona, 5711 and 15300 all have to go, in order to make it financially feasible.

Otherwise, you could spend a lot less on a pre-owned De Bethune, with less damage to the collection into the bargain.

For me, I see nothing in the RO PCs/AC or Squelette, that makes any of them a must have.

[goog53]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Unless I’m mistaken, and your thread title isn’t 100% accurate, this AP RO is not a Perpetual Calendar – it’s just an Annual one.

Personally, I’d suggest you scrap the 5711 incoming, ditch the 15300 or swap to the white dial for something other than blue as your only choice.

I’m not seeing the purpose or benefit of having – but then I am heavily biased against the sub-dial type PCs. You know my preference is for GO's, FPJ’s, and UN’s, in that order.

In all honesty, Arnaud, it seems you're trying to keep up with the ‘Joneses’ on here, and you supposedly had a self-imposed limit on new acquisitions, which didn’t include the DaytonaC, the KV, and certainly not the 15300.
On that point, I’d say why not just give yourself a chance to take stock of things until after the 5711 and Vingt-8.

I’m guessing your confidence has been knocked by the 15707’s case issue, even though it sorted out under warranty/goodwill, and has a new service warranty or extension to the original.
Fair enough if that’s the case, but it’s a nice and different watch to the rest of what’s in your box.

If you’ve moved away from bulky watches, and you have a desire to throw €60K at something, then I’d be looking more at the FPJ PC, even if it means the Daytona, 5711 and 15300 all have to go, in order to make it financially feasible.

Otherwise, you could spend a lot less on a pre-owned De Bethune, with less damage to the collection into the bargain.

For me, I see nothing in the RO PCs/AC or Squelette, that makes any of them a must have.

"keeping up with the Joneses" by definition:
to always want to own the same expensive objects and do the same things as your friends or neighbours, because you are worried about seeming less important socially than they are"

A little harsh IMO and a statement you shouldn't be making considering you don't know the guy personally. Not trying to start a pissing match but you are very opinionated my friend and more often than not come off very condescending. What's up with that? You are very critical of Patek, AP, and other popular brands which is fine as you are entitled to your opinion and seem to be "Mr. Independent Watch Brand". Enlighten Us all and show us what pieces you currently have in your collection so we can get inspiration and learn how to build an appropriate collection that meets your standards.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by goog53

"keeping up with the Joneses" by definition:
to always want to own the same expensive objects and do the same things as your friends or neighbours, because you are worried about seeming less important socially than they are"

A little harsh IMO and a statement you shouldn't be making considering you don't know the guy personally. Not trying to start a pissing match but you are very opinionated my friend and more often than not come off very condescending. What's up with that? You are very critical of Patek, AP, and other popular brands which is fine as you are entitled to your opinion and seem to be "Mr. Independent Watch Brand". Enlighten Us all and show us what pieces you currently have in your collection so we can get inspiration and learn how to build an appropriate collection that meets your standards.

thought was just my opinion...

[lapince]

You are right PJ I didn't even notice that the second one was only an AC, whereas the 2 others are PC, thanks.

Well in fact I would of liked to have a PT watch in the collection, that's what brought me to these, but in fact I don't really care for calendar watches, had the 5726 and basically always knew what day and month we were, so it's a little like a chrono, looks nice but you never use it, and when service time comes you pay much more...

Basically the cheapest PT I found and that I like are AP ones, so I was thinking it might be cool to have one, but selling the diver would be stupid indeed, and have no intention to sell any other piece I have or which is coming soon.

Anyways I won't get one of these, or sell the diver, but I will take a look at the skeleton, if I really love it then I will get one, and when the day comes where I will need the money to make an investment of some kind, then will see which I prefer more, 15407 or 15300-5711, but luckily I have money for investing for the moment.

[APAP]

I have the CE diver and the 15407. Perfect combination IMO.

[Tourbeon]

^+1

[Manofsteelpt]

Won't a full Pt piece be TOO heavy for you, Arnaud? Countless times you've brought up how heavy PM pieces are, and now you're looking into a mid 200 gram watch?
Past the weight, I had the 28520st PC in blue, wonderful piece. The Pt version has to be even more special and amazing.

[jschmidtdmd]

You have plenty of great decisions to make!

I agree with some of the sentiments above, and I certainly have some thoughts of my own.

I would consider 100% passing on the 5711. If it is a must have watch for you, I would only add the 5711r. You say you can't wear a RG watch....I said the same, until I owned one.

Instead of going for a sub dial calendar piece, I think the openwork is a fantastic watch, and may fit your collection/style better! Selling the diver is no big deal. They are around. There will be more incarnations of them.

Just my thoughts.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by goog53

"keeping up with the Joneses" by definition:
to always want to own the same expensive objects and do the same things as your friends or neighbours, because you are worried about seeming less important socially than they are"

A little harsh IMO and a statement you shouldn't be making considering you don't know the guy personally. Not trying to start a pissing match but you are very opinionated my friend and more often than not come off very condescending. What's up with that? You are very critical of Patek, AP, and other popular brands which is fine as you are entitled to your opinion and seem to be "Mr. Independent Watch Brand". Enlighten Us all and show us what pieces you currently have in your collection so we can get inspiration and learn how to build an appropriate collection that meets your standards.

It's PJ's way of saying what he thinks, don't worry I know it wasn't meant in a mean way,, I didn't take any offense by it, to be honest it made me laugh. Anyways it's true when you are on a forum about things you love, you are carried away in some moments. I think today was one of those days for me, have wanted a full PT watch, and thought this was a good possibility... Ben and Paul put me back to my senses with the first post, I can't say the design makes me crazy, very nice but not my style when I think about it, basically 70% of the interest was in the PT, not in the rest...

Originally Posted by Manofsteelpt

Won't a full Pt piece be TOO heavy for you, Arnaud? Countless times you've brought up how heavy PM pieces are, and now you're looking into a mid 200 gram watch?
Past the weight, I had the 28520st PC in blue, wonderful piece. The Pt version has to be even more special and amazing.

I always wanted a full PT watch, and you are probably right Mike, in any case I will probabky never find one that I am crazy about in my acceptable price zone, love the ultra thin date in PT, one is on chrono 24 at 124K new, that will not be possible sorry, why do you never get the 40-50% discounts on these watches, really sucks

Originally Posted by jschmidtdmd

You have plenty of great decisions to make!

I agree with some of the sentiments above, and I certainly have some thoughts of my own.

I would consider 100% passing on the 5711. If it is a must have watch for you, I would only add the 5711r. You say you can't wear a RG watch....I said the same, until I owned one.

Instead of going for a sub dial calendar piece, I think the openwork is a fantastic watch, and may fit your collection/style better! Selling the diver is no big deal. They are around. There will be more incarnations of them.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks John. About a watch like a 5711-1R, where I live the wages have plundered with the crisis, a watch like that represents many, many, many years of the minimum wage, i really would not feel comfortable wearing something like this, if almost any guy who sees it will understand that kind of bothers me, while my other watches will never draw any attention except with people that know.

And yes open is much nicer than PC, it would have been another metal I wouldn't havep bothered