Fat Lady opinions

[Spyder555]

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on this (it's an 86-87 9.2 serial) but wanted to get your learned opinion first. I'm fairly new here, and I've never owned a GMT. I found this particular watch on Chrono 24. It turns out these guys are also selling it on eBay, which normally I don't like to do. This particular example retains its original dial, and it looks blotchy. I've noticed a fair number of Fat Lady's seem to have newer service dials. I gather some of these dials aged oddly. The other thing is that its missing Lume in the GMT hand, and the bracelet is a 93150, so incorrect for GMT. Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated.

eBay link here http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-GMT-MA...YAAOSw2gxYyEme

Thank You,
Chris

[saskmh]

I have a 1986 original owner Fat Lady with the exact same characteristics. Although mine doesn't have a blotchy dial. This one appears to have the original dial and hands. These early gloss dial models turn matte or have differing levels of "patina" depending on how much moisture has penetrated the case. As for the missing lume on the GMT hand, I have seen this on a lot of watches form that era. It is somewhat common. Mine is also missing the tritium lume. Fat ladies have a characteristically thicker bezel too that is visibly different if you know what to look for. This one appears to have the original bezel intact. hands look original, Crystal looks like the original thick sapphire and not the curved edge service crystal. So other than the replacement bracelet it looks fairly original.

[Spyder555]

Thanks, I've noticed yours in a few threads. It looks great. Have you enjoyed it? I have a 5513, and a more modern Explorer II Polar, and an early 1018, and have always considered the GMT's. I like the thicker case of these. Do you think it's priced fairly? Thanks for your valued input.

[saskmh]

Originally Posted by Spyder555

Thanks, I've noticed yours in a few threads. It looks great. Have you enjoyed it? I have a 5513, and a more modern Explorer II Polar, and an early 1018, and have always considered the GMT's. I like the thicker case of these. Do you think it's priced fairly? Thanks for your valued input.

I love it. It has a little more heft than your standard GMT so wears a little more like a sub. Its a great reference that is only going to go up in value. I can't comment much on value as they seem to be in an odd place right now somewhere in between the vintage and modern ranges so prices are up, down, and all over the place. There is the odd one that comes up on this forum for a decent price. I have seen some for sale recently at a little lower price than that but I have also seen some a lot higher too.

Does that one have box and papers?

[Spyder555]

No box and papers. One sold 3 weeks ago Inc all the goodies, B&P etc and it was slightly higher, but really nice. I'd have bought that one had I arrived in time. Thanks again for your input. I love the Coke bezel insert. It's a nice shift from the Pepsi, and signifies a change in direction from acrylic to sapphire. I actually prefer acrylic, but this reference just speaks to me. I also love the idea of the Trit plots changing character.

[Spyder555]

Originally Posted by saskmh

I have a 1986 original owner Fat Lady with the exact same characteristics. Although mine doesn't have a blotchy dial. This one appears to have the original dial and hands. These early gloss dial models turn matte or have differing levels of "patina" depending on how much moisture has penetrated the case. As for the missing lume on the GMT hand, I have seen this on a lot of watches form that era. It is somewhat common. Mine is also missing the tritium lume. Fat ladies have a characteristically thicker bezel too that is visibly different if you know what to look for. This one appears to have the original bezel intact. hands look original, Crystal looks like the original thick sapphire and not the curved edge service crystal. So other than the replacement bracelet it looks fairly original.

Interesting to learn here that the bezel is actually thicker and the service sapphire crystal has a curved edge. So much great knowledge here. Thanks!!!

[ronricks]

Looks good to me. Been wanting a 16760 for a while myself.

[saskmh]

Aging tritium markers are gorgeous. They give a certain character to a watch that the luminova dials just don't have.

[saskmh]

The fat lady has a lot going for it. It was only available for five years or so. (The only other GMT model with that short of a run was the 6542). It was the first stainless steel GMT with a sapphire crystal. It was the first with an independent GMT hand. It of course has the thicker case. And it was the first Coke bezel. Oh, and it was the first model with the new 3085 high beat movement which was was only used in the fat lady and the 1655. And it was the first GMT Master II.

[Shamorai]

Just curious, why is it called the 'fat lady'? Thx.

[DadsSubm]

Now why exactly Is it called that?

[Bigsykedaddy]

Originally Posted by Shamorai

Just curious, why is it called the 'fat lady'? Thx.

Originally Posted by DadsSubm

Now why exactly Is it called that?

I wondered the same thing (I've heard of this Fat Lady GMT before and always was curious) I just googled it and apparently they used a Submariner case instead of the usual GMT case. Someone please correct me if what I read was wrong as I'd be curious to know.

[ancientmariner]

Regarding the 93150 bracelet, I have just bought a 1988 GMT 16700 with this bracelet. I assumed it was incorrect when buying the watch but have since learned it was an option for the 16700.

Perhaps others can advise if it was also offered as an option for the watch you are looking at buying.

[karmatp]

If only the internet was around mid 80's. These are so much rarer than the 16710's with the 3186.

People just don't understand the evolution of the GMT's over the decades, so many little tweaks and changes. The production numbers have to be many thousands less for the 16760's compared to the 3186's, yet the 3186 gets the attention.

Good luck with your purchase. Finding a nice example fat lady is not as easy as it used to be.

[jbarolex]

Super watch. !
case are a little bit thicker (fatter) , bigger crown guards , therefore the nick
jba

[springer]

Nice 16760s seem to sell around $6000 - $6500. This watch has dial and hand issues and I would expect the replacement dial/hands or repaired hand to be around $750. Missing hand lume is not common on 16760s - at least not that I have noticed in the many that I have owned or seen the past couple decades. What is common with these watches is corrosion or pitting around the markers. The prices for the 16760s are rather stagnant and haven't done much the past couple years, especially when compared to the the GMT 1675 or 16750. It might be a good time to buy a 16760 now while the prices are fairly reasonable.

The "fat lady" aka Sophia Loren. Some of you younger collectors might need to google her.

[saskmh]

Originally Posted by springer

Nice 16760s seem to sell around $6000 - $6500. This watch has dial and hand issues and I would expect the replacement dial/hands or repaired hand to be around $750. Missing hand lume is not common on 16760s - at least not that I have noticed in the many that I have owned or seen the past couple decades. What is common with these watches is corrosion or pitting around the markers. The prices for the 16760s are rather stagnant and haven't done much the past couple years, especially when compared to the the GMT 1675 or 16750. It might be a good time to buy a 16760 now while the prices are fairly reasonable.

The "fat lady" aka Sophia Loren. Some of you younger collectors might need to google her.

In my searching on the web I have found a number of watches with the missing GMT lume. Maybe its just a case of the really good ones are already gone. Anyways, you mention a replacement dial and handset costing around 750...Are you suggesting that would be for a NOS tritium set or luminova service dial/hands?

[Spyder555]

Thanks for chiming in guys. I vey much appreciate all these opinions and thoughts. I think the bracelet question may be that the optional choice was the jubilee. I don't understand why there would be a diving watch option on a GMT. Now that's not to say it doesn't work, it's just that when buying, I think it's better to get what would have been on the watch originally, or factor in some value to find a correct bracelet and end links.

As to moisture issues, it seems that I have found an abnormally high number of these Fat Lady's with service dials and hands. I wonder if there is more volume of space for moist air to collect in that causes this. Being a larger case, therefore more volume, could be one of the culprits. Interesting stuff.

[springer]

Originally Posted by saskmh

In my searching on the web I have found a number of watches with the missing GMT lume. Maybe its just a case of the really good ones are already gone. Anyways, you mention a replacement dial and handset costing around 750...Are you suggesting that would be for a NOS tritium set or luminova service dial/hands?

I have no idea what luminova GMT II 16760 service dials and hands cost in the secondary market. I have no idea what an original 16760 NOS tritium dials cost either - I don't believe I have ever seen an NOS tritium GMT 16760 dial offered for sale.

My earlier response regarding pricing was for a nice, original, used tritium dial/hand set.

[waQstar]

Love me a 16760 any day, you can do better at that price, infact message springer(post above) and he can fix ya up with one.

[rgnathan]

I wear my circa 1984 GMT 16760 with a 93150 bracelet. Although that may not be correct for the period, I find that a 93150 bracelet has the strength to hold the heavier watch in place on my wrist. I have never put a jubilee bracelet on my 16760, but I can't imagine it would be able to handle this watch. Others might disagree.

[Spyder555]

The interesting thing about this watch is that the bracelet is a K7, therefore the correct year for this watch. Someone posted up top that there may have been an option for the 93150 on these. It's either possible, or a very tidy coincidence that the date on this watch and bracelet match. Can you tell me what end links you use with your 93150 please? I agree that these bracelets are robust. I have one on my 5513 and love it.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Spyder555

The interesting thing about this watch is that the bracelet is a K7, therefore the correct year for this watch. Someone posted up top that there may have been an option for the 93150 on these. It's either possible, or a very tidy coincidence that the date on this watch and bracelet match. Can you tell me what end links you use with your 93150 please? I agree that these bracelets are robust. I have one on my 5513 and love it.

The 93150 bracelet was 100% available on the 16760 along with some other bracelets.

The 93150 uses 593 end links with the 16760.

Check your other thread concerning the end links.

[Nikita70]

I bought my 16760 last year. Feels great on the wrist. Love the size and weight. I got a great deal, IMO. Gorgeous patina n the dial and markers, hands are not original but not that big of a deal to me. If you buy at a decent price you really can't go wrong, GMT prices have been on the rise for a while.

[Jfullm42]

Per my research I have found that the 93150 was a option that you could order with your GMT back then.

[keshaandrea]

Any pictures for the fatlady complete bracelet?
I have Fatlady serial : 946xxxx and I am not sure it has a correct bracelet.

Thank you.

[Spyder555]

Thanks guys, this is interesting information. I imagined that a divers extension on a GMT was unnecessary, so maybe they came sans D.E. but in either case, it's great knowing the 93150/593 combo is correct.

[SilverBack_]

If I were to buy a Coke GMT, it would be a Fat Lady.

Here's a link for bracelet and end links: http://watch-collector.co.uk/rolex-b...nd-link-codes/

Did you buy it???

[springer]

Originally Posted by SilverBack_

If I were to buy a Coke GMT, it would be a Fat Lady.

Here's a link for bracelet and end links: http://watch-collector.co.uk/rolex-b...nd-link-codes/

Did you buy it???

That chart is not every accurate. Sub 16800 info is incorrect and some of the GMT info too. There is much better reference material out there on the internet and on this forum. It's because of charts like this that so many guys become confused when looking for correct end links to match up with a certain bracelet and watch.

[Spyder555]

The Fat Lady Sings! Sorry for the poor IPad pic, but it's home and I Love it. It fit perfectly, I'm an 11 link 93150 guy. I Love the thicker case and bezel, and the big crown guards. The open 6's and 9's dial is very cool too. The dial is blotchy but I'm sure it's going from Gloss to Matte as there is more flat black than gloss. The plots are beginning to turn ever so slightly. The bezel insert is is very clean with the red going nicely flat. I will consider how I feel about the missing Lume in the GMT hand, but for now it's fine because I feel this is an all original piece. The case is worn but I dont think it's ever been polished. The bevels are still in tact although not super sharp. The bezel itsel is quite nice and I would call it semi crisp. I think the watch was worn and enjoyed, and is a very honest original piece. I'm thrilled! The bracelet is a K7 so it coincides with the 9.6 mil serial (1896-1987) The Fat Lady sings!!!