AD vs Grey

[NoCokeNoHope]

Branching out from another hot topic of paying over MSRP for a Daytona C.
Out of town today and I stopped by an AD to check out their inventory. Same old news, not a single SS Sport model other than an Air King. A sales approached me and asked me what am I looking for. I gave him a list of models and his manager (I think) joined the conversation.

AD: Well, you need to have a relationship with us in order to get on the list for these Professional models and the Daytona’s waiting list is minimum 8 years.
ME: Oh, so you don’t have anything in stock now?
AD: I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe not. (Some vague Bs that I forgot what he said).... if you want to start a relationship with us now, I can get you a professional model much faster. (Pointing at the DJs & PMs)
ME: how fast? Do you have something at the back?
AD: I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe Not. Depends how strong our relationship is. (Hinting on some PMs)
ME: Where will that WG GMT BLRO take our relationship to?
AD: That, my FRIEND, if you buy it now I can probably bump you up a lot higher on the Daytona list and maybe some other.
ME: How soon and how sure are you. I’ll only buy the WG GMT if I’m walking out with the SS on the same day.
AD: (BS, I still don’t know what he has for SS).... and we are a big company, our words are just as good as gold!
ME: I am a big boy too, my words are also as good as gold. How about I buy a SS today and come back later for the WG GMT?
AD: (fake laugh)

Walking out feeling the whole thing is just as shady as the “i fix your phone” store.

Perhaps the grey/trusted sellers may not be a bad idea after all. I know exactly what I am buying and when am I going to get it. Paying a bit over MSRP (not $6000 more, of course) probably worth it. At least they are not going to force me in bed with them.







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[jrs146]

It’s the rolex way of the world... gotta pay to play. The crazy part is no one really knows the rules of the game. Very frustrating.


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[superstarmar]

Madness !!!! My AD as of late who I purchased all of
My Rolex from except one has been really quirky...
It is definitely not business as usual lately in the Rolex world
that’s for sure ....

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by superstarmar

Madness !!!! My AD as of late who I purchased all of
My Rolex from except one has been really quirky...
It is definitely not business as usual lately in the Rolex world
that’s for sure ....

My local AD pitched a little hissy fit a few months ago and I haven’t been back. I don’t need him and can get whatever watch I want.

[oldman2005]

Originally Posted by NoCokeNoHope

Walking out feeling the whole thing is just as shady as the “i fix your phone” store.

Rolex way or the highway...

[joli160]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Rolex way or the highway...

I don't think Rolex has anything to do with the shady business AD's play

[wytrader]

Fully understand your experience to be disappointing but can you switch roles for a second. How do you think the AD's feel, recieving a small percentage of their demand in SS and multiples of their demand in PM. How crappy must it be to have 9/10 people leave your business irritated, pissed, disappointed. The internet has made everything so transparent that everyone now expects at least a 15% discount on the models they have and no one wants to pay sales tax.

[HL65]

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait either so forget it.

[wytrader]

Originally Posted by HL65

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait and strong relationship with AD either so forget it.

Agree with your view too. It seems everyone is happy with the value retention that Rolex watches provide and want to sell their bought watches at a profit in the future but expect the popular watches to be available like Omega's or Tag's. It's one or the other.

[maizerage25]

Originally Posted by wytrader

Agree with your view too. It seems everyone is happy with the value retention that Rolex watches provide and want to sell their bought watches at a profit in the future but expect the popular watches to be available like Omega's or Tag's. It's one or the other.

As someone who is trying to buy a BLNR from an AD without a relationship (bought my one and only in St. Martin) - I agree this is very frustrating!

However I do come back this point - if the market becomes over-saturated then we will have a value retention problem like almost every other brand.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by HL65

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait either so forget it.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by HL65

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait either so forget it.

This!


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[Vaxe]

X2 well said.

Originally Posted by HL65

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait either so forget it.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by HL65

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait either so forget it.

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

Why aren't more people like you, sir? Kudos to your post, very well written

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Manuela

Why aren't more people like you, sir? Kudos to your post, very well written

Thanks!!!:thumbs:

[Raza_actual]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

I find the best approach is to put your money in your outstretched hands and beg “Please sir, I want some more”.

It’s a retail transaction. Not a job interview, not a date. I’m not going to dress like a slob because I never dress like a slob. I’m going to be courteous and polite because I’m always courteous and polite. But I don’t walk into a store with the intention to debase myself so they will do deign to sell me their goods. That you’re okay with having to suck up to a retailer in order to have some hope that they’ll sell you their products is worrying. I respect myself too much to do that.

And for the record, I’m solidly in the AD camp. But I’ve come across ADs that have treated me like I don’t belong there. They can go to hell. I’m not going to rollover and play fetch so they can reward me with a luxury product I have to pay thousands of dollars for. If an AD acts like that, I walk away and tell all my friends that they treated me like garbage—like I do with Govberg in Philadelphia.

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

I find the best approach is to put your money in your outstretched hands and beg “Please sir, I want some more”.

It’s a retail transaction. Not a job interview, not a date. I’m not going to dress like a slob because I never dress like a slob. I’m going to be courteous and polite because I’m always courteous and polite. But I don’t walk into a store with the intention to debase myself so they will do deign to sell me their goods. That you’re okay with having to suck up to a retailer in order to have some hope that they’ll sell you their products is worrying. I respect myself too much to do that.

And for the record, I’m solidly in the AD camp. But I’ve come across ADs that have treated me like I don’t belong there. They can go to hell. I’m not going to rollover and play fetch so they can reward me with a luxury product I have to pay thousands of dollars for. If an AD acts like that, I walk away and tell all my friends that they treated me like garbage—like I do with Govberg in Philadelphia.

This ^^^.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

I’m always courteous and polite.

Good.

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

But I don’t walk into a store with the intention to debase myself so they will do deign to sell me their goods.

Also good. And IMOP you should not.

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

That you’re okay with having to suck up to a retailer in order to have some hope that they’ll sell you their products is worrying.

I appreciate your concern. But I just re-read my post and I have not suggested that. Unless of course you consider asking after family, being polite, complimenting staff and sharing knowledge to be sucking up. If you do, we will have to disagree.

[/QUOTE

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

I’ve come across ADs that have treated me like I don’t belong there. They can go to hell. If an AD acts like that, I walk away and tell all my friends that they treated me like garbage—like I do with Govberg in Philadelphia.

Ok. And yes, I have had that happen. I try to write the first occasion off on the person having a bad day (which we all do). If it repeats, I take my business elsewhere. But I find that this rarely happens if I have taken the time to try and build relationships.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Come on... You're just buying a watch, you're looking way too much into this. Respect sure that's normal behavior or should be but that's it.

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

Reading your post, it appears that you have got the dynamics of the relationship flipped around. As the customer, the AD should be showing YOU respect; it might be their store, but it's YOUR money. This fawning, misplaced respect, going Uriah Heep-like to an AD, cap in hand, "oh please sell me a watch" stuff is misguided and wrong.

[S-F]

Originally Posted by Vanmarsenille

Reading your post, it appears that you have got the dynamics of the relationship flipped around. As the customer, the AD should be showing YOU respect; it might be their store, but it's YOUR money. This fawning, misplaced respect, going Uriah Heep-like to an AD, cap in hand, "oh please sell me a watch" stuff is misguided and wrong.

I agree with this. There are multiple ADs in my area and the one that earned my business was the one that treated me with respect and worked with me on price.

Some of the ADs I visited treated me very poorly and acted like I was wasting their time. Guess what I didn't waste there? My money

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Vanmarsenille

Reading your post, it appears that you have got the dynamics of the relationship flipped around. As the customer, the AD should be showing YOU respect; it might be their store, but it's YOUR money. This fawning, misplaced respect, going Uriah Heep-like to an AD, cap in hand, "oh please sell me a watch" stuff is misguided and wrong.

Please re-read my post. I don't own a cap and am not suggesting anyone go cap in hand. My post does argue that asking after family, complimenting staff and sharing knowledge can build relationships. If this is going Uriah Heep-like, then we have different definitions.

Yes it is my money. But I try to flip the issue around and look at the world from their perspective.

I provide professional services for a living. When I interview a potential new client I ask myself "Do I want to work for this person?" If they give me the "it's my money and I am doing you a favor by hiring you" attitude I refer them to someone else and show them the door. If they are not polite to my staff, I show them the door. If they cannot be bothered with what is considered common courtesy in my neck of the woods, I show them the door. Life is too short to deal with rude people.

So, I try to treat AD's the same way I insist on being treated. Simple as that.

And I try to build relationships.

Works for me.

[jimcameron]

There are so many fantastic alternatives that I'd say "bye-bye".

[enjoythemusic]

If EVERYONE called Rolex distributor and named the AD that uses those tactics, i bet said AD might stop.

So CALL ROLEX everyone and let them know the name of AD that uses those tactics, what they said, etc. Leave emotion at the door, only state facts.

So that Boston AD, was it Tourneau Copley Place or ???

[topfuel25]

Put it this way, there are younger customers that just got into watch owning and buying and u can't fault them for not having a solid relationship with the AD when they are trying to buy their first Rolex watch.

Having said that a customer would not want to build a shady relationship with an AD which is not sincere or upfront in the beginning.

It's like a new guy walks into the boutique for the first time sincerely wanting to buy his first watch with the AD telling him stories and saying there's isn't stock, just then another dude walks in who happen to be some rich kid or have bought multiple watches previously and the sales person drags him into the corner and shows him the exact same watch the first guy had asked for.

Put yourself in the first guy's shoes :)

Relationship is 2 way thing and not only 1!

[SeaDweller50]

I’ve always sourced my watches via other means so never had this issue personally.

[mrporter]

Originally Posted by topfuel25

Put it this way, there are younger customers that just got into watch owning and buying and u can't fault them for not having a solid relationship with the AD when they are trying to buy their first Rolex watch.

Having said that a customer would not want to build a shady relationship with an AD which is not sincere or upfront in the beginning.

It's like a new guy walks into the boutique for the first time sincerely wanting to buy his first watch with the AD telling him stories and saying there's isn't stock, just then another dude walks in who happen to be some rich kid or have bought multiple watches previously and the sales person drags him into the corner and shows him the exact same watch the first guy had asked for.

Put yourself in the first guy's shoes :)

Relationship is 2 way thing and not only 1!

Perfect thread! I was asking the same question on another rolex forum.

Basically not everyone can afford to buy 2-3 watches a year, for some of us, buying watch once a year is already a luxury. So these ADs keep pushing on "having a relationship" idea, which a lot of member here also agree, but how is it even possible to start a relationship if the watch that we want to buy, of course mostly SS sport models, doesn't even exist? Or you need to be a VIP to get your hand on those models. A lot of people, including my self, doesn't want to be stuck with watches that we don't want at all or just have a so so feeling towards it. So the idea of buying another model to get the model we want is just ridiculous.

I think AD need to see people commitment, if they're commit to spend, they should just let them have it. Of course AD still can tend to their VIPs, but I think they should reserve 1 or 2 stock for the first come first serve basis.

I like the idea of buying from AD, but with this situation, I think grey is the go to option.

[Jim Smyth]

This is the exact reason I haven't bought anything from a AD in 30+ years. I have developed a relation and its with a trusted seller. I get what I want at the price thats better than any AD. No BS, just trade +/- cash and go. I also to a lessor extent buy/sell/trade on the forums. What ever floats your boat but I like it simple and painless.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by mrporter

Perfect thread! I was asking the same question on another rolex forum.

Basically not everyone can afford to buy 2-3 watches a year, for some of us, buying watch once a year is already a luxury. So these ADs keep pushing on "having a relationship" idea, which a lot of member here also agree, but how is it even possible to start a relationship if the watch that we want to buy, of course mostly SS sport models, doesn't even exist? Or you need to be a VIP to get your hand on those models. A lot of people, including my self, doesn't want to be stuck with watches that we don't want at all or just have a so so feeling towards it. So the idea of buying another model to get the model we want is just ridiculous.

I think AD need to see people commitment, if they're commit to spend, they should just let them have it. Of course AD still can tend to their VIPs, but I think they should reserve 1 or 2 stock for the first come first serve basis.

I like the idea of buying from AD, but with this situation, I think grey is the go to option.

I agree. With limited stock of professional Rolex models, it is hard to start a relationship with an AD. My advice is to not get discourage and try to find the right AD. I visited an AD in my town this weekend and I inquired about the Sub Lvc. The wait was about 3-4 months with a deposit. I thought this was very reasonable for a new customer.