Calling All 1601 Experts

[Gray_Panther]

Gents,
This Datejust requires a little backstory. This belongs to my grandfather who got it in the early 90's from a customer at his restaurant. Already it sounds like it was stolen, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was, nevertheless he paid for it and he also has the box and papers stashed away somewhere in the house.
I asked him to borrow it for the weekend and he said it was mine to take whenever since he wants to hand it down to me after he passes.
The first time I examined it earlier this year, I thought it was a flat out fake just looking at the dial and the bracelet. I brought it to my AD to have them just look at it and they also claim it is a fake based on the bracelet and dial alone, but as they are nice people they said that the case and movement may be authentic.
But after discovering this forum and digging more into it, I am not sure that it is a fake. So I went and bought a tool to open the caseback and to my surprise it is a real movement!

This leads me to believe that the watch was brought in for service and the dial was replaced with a knockoff for whatever the reason. This was the early 90's and there was a lot of shadiness going on, still is but I digress.
The bracelet has the folded links, which may or not be authentic which is why I am here posting the below pictures to see what you experts have to say.
















The next step I would like to take is replace the bracelet with a black leather strap and gold buckle if the bracelet is indeed fake. And take it into a reputable non-Rolex service center to replace the dial and do an overhaul on the movement and seals.
This watch has never been polished or even cleaned except for the courtesy steam cleaning my AD performed. It has some damage and chips on the acrylic but I like it that way. Gives it character.

Let me know your thoughts!

[andromeda160]

Just looks like a refinished dial on an otherwise authentic watch to me

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

Just looks like a refinished dial on an otherwise authentic watch to me

Thank you! I am still green to this vintage game and I think I am getting more and more hooked on it. What is meant by refinished dial?

The reason I want to say the dial is fake is because of the following picture:


On the top left of the crown, there is a black line indicative of the 59th second marker.

Also, is it true the folding links was used as an authentic Rolex bracelet.

And, from all the pictures I have seen from this forum and online, I haven't come across the twelve minute markers on this dial.

[Richard Carver]

Looks like a 1972 based on that serial number. The dial is a repainted original Rolex dial, not a fake. Need to see more pics of the blade stampings to have more idea about the originality of the bracelet.

The watch is rough, the bezel is worn, the crystal is so distorted it is unusable, the crown is as worn as I've ever seen one and the hands are corroded.

The good news is it's relatively unpolished and the case looks corrosion free. I sense from your OP you may be afflicted by the originality fetish which means you don't know enough to know what can be discarded and what shouldn't be. Take time to learn about vintage Rolex. Learn what is important and what isn't. What is important on a 500k milwatch is not necessarily as important on your 1972 DJ.

And save yourself some humiliation, never go to a professional Rolex guy and say; "I'm gonna keep this distorted, unusable, ready to shatter from old age crystal because I'm a vintage guy and I know what's cooking." If a crystal is dangerous to your watch, replace it. The only reason it's still on there is because someone has been cheaping out on service all that watch's life (did I mention how disgusted I am by that worn out crown? :).

There are two ways to go with that watch; keep grandpa's watch as close to original to him as possible which means keeping the repaint dial. bezel and the bracelet regardless of originality. But that's it, hands, crystal, crown, tube and gaskets all get changed with a nice fresh service.

Or, full service, new bezel, crystal, crown, tube, gaskets, hands, original dial, original bracelet, light polish and have a beautiful watch that will outlast you.

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Looks like a 1972 based on that serial number. The dial is a repainted original Rolex dial, not a fake. Need to see more pics of the blade stampings to have more idea about the originality of the bracelet.

The watch is rough, the bezel is worn, the crystal is so distorted it is unusable, the crown is as worn as I've ever seen one and the hands are corroded.

The good news is it's relatively unpolished and the case looks corrosion free. I sense from your OP you may be afflicted by the originality fetish which means you don't know enough to know what can be discarded and what shouldn't be. Take time to learn about vintage Rolex. Learn what is important and what isn't. What is important on a 500k milwatch is not necessarily as important on your 1972 DJ.

And save yourself some humiliation, never go to a professional Rolex guy and say; "I'm gonna keep this distorted, unusable, ready to shatter from old age crystal because I'm a vintage guy and I know what's cooking." If a crystal is dangerous to your watch, replace it. The only reason it's still on there is because someone has been cheaping out on service all that watch's life (did I mention how disgusted I am by that worn out crown? :).

There are two ways to go with that watch; keep grandpa's watch as close to original to him as possible which means keeping the repaint dial. bezel and the bracelet regardless of originality. But that's it, hands, crystal, crown, tube and gaskets all get changed with a nice fresh service.

Or, full service, new bezel, crystal, crown, tube, gaskets, hands, original dial, original bracelet, light polish and have a beautiful watch that will outlast you.

Thank you very much for the detailed post! You are right and I know I am new to this game which is a good thing because I have all the time in the world since I know this watch won't be going anywhere.
My stance has changed from my original and I like the idea of a full service. I spoke to forum reputable service center yesterday and received an initial quote that was digestible. The options keep growing, but for now I will store this until the movement is serviced. This watch is worn by my grandfather about 1-2 days a year now, and probably for the best since it hasn't been serviced at all under his ownership. I wouldn't call him cheap, but more naive for not knowing mechanical watches need servicing just like a car.

I am getting married this year, so my funds won't be available to justify any type of service cost until next year.

The bracelet is stamped as 6251H with the writing "STEELINOX"

[alwayshere]

agree with others the dial has been repainted and crystal and crown will need to be replaced.

My thought are you try to source a replacement dial (they aren't that hard to come by - check the Bay for used). Once you have sourced the dial, send it to a reputable indie watchmaker along with a service and you should be good to go.

[statsman]

I think if you take Carver’s advice, you are going to have a great looking watch that will be appropriate for most occasions (casual to formal, really, everything but sports and yardwork), and also has a family tie. Congrats!

[Gray_Panther]

Not sure why I wasn't able to see this earlier, but the dial is 100% fake. First off it looks like a dial that can fit a 31mm datejust, and not the 34mm it is on now. Secondly, it just doesn't look right at all.


You can see that there are two yellows, the lighter yellow is the dial, and then a darker yellow rim that goes around the dial.
I knew I was going to need a new dial regardless, but now that I have noticed this I can't unsee it!

[jvmartin]

Originally Posted by Gray_Panther

Not sure why I wasn't able to see this earlier, but the dial is 100% fake. First off it looks like a dial that can fit a 31mm datejust, and not the 34mm it is on now. Secondly, it just doesn't look right at all.


You can see that there are two yellows, the lighter yellow is the dial, and then a darker yellow rim that goes around the dial.
I knew I was going to need a new dial regardless, but now that I have noticed this I can't unsee it!

That effect is actually from the "pie pan" shape of the dial... the dial is essentially shaped like an upside down pin pan. The dial is the correct size and likely the same color but the lighting effect on the pie pan makes it look two toned... this dial looks like it was redone decades ago... other than that though, everything looks good... if you replace the dial and crystal, you have a very nice vintage watch...

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

That effect is actually from the "pie pan" shape of the dial... the dial is essentially shaped like an upside down pin pan. The dial is the correct size and likely the same color but the lighting effect on the pie pan makes it look two toned... this dial looks like it was redone decades ago... other than that though, everything looks good... if you replace the dial and crystal, you have a very nice vintage watch...

Thank goodness for this amazing forum! I am honestly learning so much about my grandfather’s watch that it has been a really fun journey. It’s great that I am able to get my mind off onto something that is small and fun that doesn’t interfere at all with my schedule!


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[offrdmania]

The style of the dial is from the late 50s, not the early 70s based on the serial number. Most likely its a replaced older dial that was repainted at some point.

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The style of the dial is from the late 50s, not the early 70s based on the serial number. Most likely its a replaced older dial that was repainted at some point.

Thank you! I am now off to study the dials from previous eras.
It didn’t even occur to me to look even further back in time.


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[watchcrank]

Original watch and bracelet with a funky dial. When you have serviced have dial and hands changed. They are not that expensive compared to value of watch. Luck and congrats on wedding.