Question about damage after setting date

[mosipd]

I have an El Primero with big date and was setting the date according to the manual. I placed the hands at 3:30 PM and pulled the crown to the second position and set the date. Instead of pushing the crown all the way in, I pushed it back to position one to set the time. However when I turned the crown the hands didn't move. I stopped immediately and pushed the crown all the way in, but when I did, the minute hand jumped forward a bit.

Everything seems to be working fine, but as the watch was just serviced by Zenith I'm worried that I messed something up. I'm hoping someone can offer some advice.

Thanks!

[Tools]

It's unlikely that you did anything wrong.

A mechanical watch needs to move between gears, detents, pinions and the like and often times does not engage exactly without a wiggle or two. Simply not engaging occasionally is not uncommon.

What you do when that happens is exactly what you did.... push it back in and start all over.

[mosipd]

Thanks for replying but unfortunately the watch needs to go back to Zenith. I've had the watch for literally a day and the chrono function is all sorts of messed up. Not only did it stop completely one time, the 30 minute totalizer jumps back and forth when starting the chrono after a reset. Once it's running, the hand doesn't move when starting and stopping, only after a reset. It also doesn't jump every time, maybe once every 3 or 4 resets. The 30 minute hand also doesn't line up properly.

The worst part is, Zenith hosed me for $2200 on the maintenance for a watch that was in mint condition before they messed with it. Not only that, it cost me $100 just to ship the damn thing 5 miles and another $100 to send it to Switzerland. They won't let you send the watch directly to Switzerland. They have to "analyze" it first even though their website says clearly this movement is only serviced in Switzerland.

I bought this watch back in March, had it for less than a week before I sent it in for maintenance because it was running fast. Six months later, and now I've only had it a day before I have to wait 6 more months. Zenith has had this watch for way longer than me. I should've never have sent it to them in the first place. I could've dealt with the watch running fast but otherwise perfect. What do you think the chances are they'll mess it up a second time? This pisses me off beyond belief.

[Tools]

Sorry about the issues. Zenith has a good name and I hope that they can fix it satisfactorily.

[endo]

While it may be a true story, $2200 seems a bit much, to cost that much on a EP, sounds like it’s a watch that’s been through the wars with alot replaced.

I sent a Flyback El Primero back for a repair/full service after the minute hand on the chrono stopped functioning.
Cost was £420 (approx $550), took 6 weeks.
Even a more complicated watch like the Doublematic was in the same ballpark.
Had a fair few EP’s and LVMH serivce has always been more than acceptible.

[mosipd]

The watch is a Doublematic. I can PM you a copy of the quote if you'd like, just let me know. All it said was "Maintenance II" and the cost was approximately $2200, more with shipping.

I previously opened a thread about this when I first got the quote back as I felt it was really high. However I didn't have any experience with LVMH/Zenith or having watches serviced outside warranty. The opinion at the time seemed to be that it wasn't that high, and after debating my options I approved the quote. I felt that I had no other option at that point than to pay the service charge and have it serviced. Looking back now I should've had the watch demagnetized first, but you live, you learn.

Originally I sent the watch in because it was running fast, about +45 seconds per day. Other than that, it was in mint condition when I bought it and all the functions worked flawlessly. You can read the thread I linked to below, but after a going back and forth a few times I got a voice mail about the alarm power reserve function not working. I thought that was odd as it was certainly working when I sent it in, and when they inspected the watch before sending it to Switzerland, that wasn't noted as broken.

Of course I really had no way of knowing, but at that point my radar was up and I just had a feeling this was gonna turn into a mess. After running the watch a bit more, when the chronograph stops after running for 10-15 minutes, the rest of the watch also stops. That's in addition to the 30 minute totalizer hand jumping back and forth a good eighth on an inch when you actuate the start/stop pusher. The alarm works properly and so does the 24hr function, and it seems to keep good time, but the chronograph is really messed up.

I can't post links yet, but the title of the old thread is: Opinions on my Zenith/LVMH repair estimate

[endo]

That makes more sense, a Doublematic is a whole different beast from a "El Primero with big date" since it's mega complicated relative to the run of the mill EP, so they class it along side their minute repeaters and tourbillons.

Still seems a tad high as we're talking an EP albeit highly modified movement, need to find the paper work for mine, but again, it's case by case as it's a specialist watch.



anyways, since you got it sorted,
as to your original question. It is normal ocassionally the teeth won't grab when you're manipulating the crown, could happen on any watch.
First time it happened to me it was on my sea-dweller and i nearly cried thinking i broke it... but i've had alot of watches since.

hand jumping when you push the crown happens on various watches as well, upside is the doublematic has no running seconds, so to avoid when setting the time, make sure you give the crown a little wiggle.. if the minute hand doesn't move push the crown back in and it shouldn't jump.
It's a PITA, but it could be worse, setting the time on my AP makes me pull my hair out.

[mosipd]

On every 3rd or 4th reset of the chronograph, the 30 minute hand moves backwards when you begin to actuate the pusher. Then, as it engages the chronograph and clicks, the 30 minute hand jumps forward about 2 to 3 minutes. So if I start the chronograph and the hand jumps forward, as the chronograph completes its first 60 seconds, instead of the reading 1 minute it reads 4 minutes.

Initially I thought this might be due to the recent servicing so I figured I'd let the chronograph run for 30 minutes. I started it and put the watch down only to come back 5 minutes later to a stopped chronograph. I was able to reset it and get it going again, but this time I left it running for about an hour and a half. It stopped again, but now I also noticed the watch was slow by the same amount of time. Clearly something major is wrong as not only did the chronograph stop, the reset of the watch stopped as well.

My biggest surprise in all of this however is the complete lack of quality control. After all the hours someone put in to servicing this watch, you think they'd at least run it through the paces more than once. It makes you wonder if they actually did a complete service or if they half-assed it as much as they could. I did receive a bag of replaced parts, but all that was in there were gaskets. Which is fine if nothing was broken, but they did tell me the alarm power reserve wasn't working. Was this simply a ploy to get me to pay for an expensive service, after it was obvious I was questioning why it was needed in the first place?

I'm really not expecting them to get it right a second time when something as basic as this was missed. On top of that, by the time I get it back they will have had the watch for over a year. Furthermore, whatever trust I did have in LVMH/Zenith has gone out the door. My biggest fear is that they'll fix it, but it won't last and I'll be paying another $2200 a year and a half from now.

[endo]

While I can relate to what you're feeling, sound to me more like user error than an actual problem with the watch.

Originally Posted by mosipd

On every 3rd or 4th reset of the chronograph, the 30 minute hand moves backwards when you begin to actuate the pusher. Then, as it engages the chronograph and clicks, the 30 minute hand jumps forward about 2 to 3 minutes. So if I start the chronograph and the hand jumps forward, as the chronograph completes its first 60 seconds, instead of the reading 1 minute it reads 4 minutes.

Just push the pusher in firmly with one single motion
"as you being to actuate the pusher" sounds like you're gingerly pushing it in, doing the same as slipping the clutch in a car and causing undue wear.

The same thing happens if you put light pressure backwards when setting the time on an EP with running seconds, you can get the second hand to run backwards.

Originally Posted by mosipd

Initially I thought this might be due to the recent servicing so I figured I'd let the chronograph run for 30 minutes. I started it and put the watch down only to come back 5 minutes later to a stopped chronograph. I was able to reset it and get it going again, but this time I left it running for about an hour and a half. It stopped again, but now I also noticed the watch was slow by the same amount of time. Clearly something major is wrong as not only did the chronograph stop, the reset of the watch stopped as well.

This might seem a stupid question, but is the watch actually fully wound?
Sounds to me like the mainspring is only partially wound, which explains both the chrono stopping, or loosing time after the chrono has been wound.
If you've been paranoid it's not working, andthe watch has just been sat in a box, the mainspring won't be wound hence you're going to run into problems.

I would wind the watch up, maybe 40-50 (Crown fully in, turn up wards and you can feel it wind)

[mosipd]

Whether it's light pressure or a full, firm press of the pusher, I can reliably replicate the issue. It only does it when the chronograph is reset, stopping and starting the chronograph once its running doesn't cause the 30 minute hand to move. Something is clearly wrong as this certainly wasn't an issue prior to the servicing. If the chronograph is stopping, along with the rest of the watch, wouldn't that also indicate a major issue? I don't think it's supposed to do that.

As far as being fully wound, that was my initial thought as well. I made sure the watch was fully wound and it didn't seem to make a difference. I also tried it with the alarm wound and unwound to see if that made a difference but no, it was the same. Like I said, the watch worked perfectly before the servicing and never exhibited any of these issues. This was definitely the result of poor servicing and failing to check the functionality of the watch, no question.

[mosipd]

The watch was just received by the US servicing center so hopefully this time around they'll actually fix it.

Here's a video of the issue: Zenith Doublematic Chronograph Problem

The watch was just wound fully before taking this video.

[endo]

Hopefully they'll get it sorted properly. If anything it'll be under warranty now that it's serviced.

That's definately not functioning correctly, In fact I had a similar issue with a flyback years ago, (but this was on a watch that was chucked around as a beater.)

If i remember correctly my watchmaker friend who had a peep before sending it Zenith for me said that the pivot on the minute recorder wheels was damaged, hence the slop on chrono-reset and the struggle to move as it counts to the next minute.